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Old 08-06-2009, 13:43   #1
pong
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legal question >> intruder inside the house

what this the proper procedure in this case

my friend recently moved to cavite, in the very few months that
he stayed there, he has experienced a significant threat to his life
and property

the first incident was quite simple and not that drastic > > his bike
got stolen

the second incident was more intense > > the intruder went inside his
house while he was inside, slowly creeping and checking out his place,
good thing he was still awake at that time when the intruder decided
to open the door to his room. he saw the hand and the shirt of the guy
as he tried to sneak in. the first thing he did was shout at the guy and
pick up his FA and cocked it.

good thing the guy ran away, leaving whatever he tried to take.
he reported everything to the police and barangay concerned.


questions >>
situation 1
in case the intruder decided to barge in despite the warning
is my friend legally allowed to fire his gun at the intruder
can this be already classified as self-defense?

what is the proper procedure?

situation 2
in case the guy runs away, and he fires a warning shot, is there
a case wherein he will be charged? illegal discharge of FA?

what is the definition of a warning shot then?

situation 3: In the event that the intruder decided to attack with
a bladed weapon, and as a natural instinct of saving one's life, the
homeowner decides to fire his FA and in the process kills the intruder.
what case would be filed against him?

homicide? but will this be then dismissed by the city fiscals
as a case of self defense.

thanks!

Last edited by pong; 08-06-2009 at 13:55..
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Old 08-06-2009, 18:20   #2
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i'd put booby traps out for the perp!
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Old 08-06-2009, 18:23   #3
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If the intruder had already fled, I would not fire a warning shot. I would make sure he actually left however while calling police.

If the intruder charged you in your own house, then you have the right to fire, expecially if he is armed. Even if he does not appeared to be armed at the moment, that does not mean he's not concealing something. Just make sure he is coming at you when you fire so it is clear that you were the intended target. If he was running away and you shot him in the back, it might not look so good. That is the way I see it. Does anyone disagree?
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Old 08-06-2009, 18:25   #4
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as much as i really like the idea of traps for those types. i would bet they would be illegal. even one that could only go off if somebody tried to steal it.
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Old 08-06-2009, 19:00   #5
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Situation 1 - Gray area, it could go either way.
Situation 2 - He could be charged with alarm and scandal.
Situation 3 - Murder or Homicide as SOP even if complete self defense exists.
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Old 08-06-2009, 19:12   #6
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I'll shoot the hell out of the A*#H&^* on all scenario. i would subject my family even to the slightest risk of having a bad guy in my house or even in my backyard.


but thats just me.
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Old 08-06-2009, 20:12   #7
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i'm not a legal expert but if the BG entered one's residence, it could be argued that the BG meant to inflict harm therefore justifiable to react with lethal force.

however if the bad guy flees and you went after him and shot/killed him, that may be considered homicide.

if memory serves me right, wasnt there an incident involving Sonny Parsons wherein some perps entered his residence but he was able to drive them away and actually went after some of them. i forgot how that turned out.
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Old 08-06-2009, 23:37   #8
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shoot... that why we have lawyers. sila na bahala after.
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Old 08-07-2009, 00:05   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Croix View Post
i'm not a legal expert but if the BG entered one's residence, it could be argued that the BG meant to inflict harm therefore justifiable to react with lethal force.

however if the bad guy flees and you went after him and shot/killed him, that may be considered homicide.

if memory serves me right, wasnt there an incident involving Sonny Parsons wherein some perps entered his residence but he was able to drive them away and actually went after some of them. i forgot how that turned out.

sonny parsons was at the gun show on the 1st or second day i think, he spoke of that incident and he to that there was no case filed against hin because nadismiss na sa fiscals office plang.

but we are not sonny parsons


para saakin, the legalities would be the last thing on my mind those scenarios happen.



but thats just me.


sabi nga ni bro atmarcella "shoot... that why we have lawyers. sila na bahala after. " <---- very true.




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Old 08-07-2009, 05:52   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presidingglock View Post
He could be charged with alarm and scandal.
Situation 3 - Murder or Homicide as SOP even if complete self defense exists.
Are you saying that the home owner would be charged with murder even if self defense was evident? The perp attacked him with a deadly weapon in his own house, he would be justifiable in shooting to kill.

I might have read something wrong along the way (it happens ) but that is what I got from it.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:08   #11
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Never fire a warning shot. Fire to stop the threat. Do not pull your firearm unless you intend to use it in self-defense.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:20   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockleo View Post
Are you saying that the home owner would be charged with murder even if self defense was evident? The perp attacked him with a deadly weapon in his own house, he would be justifiable in shooting to kill.

I might have read something wrong along the way (it happens ) but that is what I got from it.
Sir in the Philippines, the public prosecutor will sometimes file the case as a matter of course either for murder or homicide and will just leave it to the judge to determine if the accused is entitled to the claim of self defense. He will just pass the buck so to speak.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:23   #13
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It was fortunate that the BG was presumably surprised that your friend was awake, which has stopped the further intrusion. It would be dreadful to think that the BG may have been prepared with a firearm as well or may have been aggressive at attacking your friend which may have resulted in a situation where both of them may have ended up fighting control over a firearm.

I think it would have been legal to use lethal force most especially if one can prove that one's life was in grave danger.

My two cents worth, when your friend decides to engage the BG with lethal force, make sure the BG drops to the ground and that all your hits are Alpha in the FRONT torso and not an Alpha at the back. Why not the back, it will be perceived as the BG already running away and therefore extinguishing the threat to your friend's life.
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Old 08-07-2009, 08:24   #14
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Articulate why you did what you did. You were in fear for your safety and the safety of your family. I does not matter if he did not have a weapon. Remember that a fleeing suspect is no longer a threat. The threat is his combative or aggressive behaviour inside your home which you have an expectation of privacy and safety. Just my 2 centime.
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Old 08-07-2009, 16:50   #15
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There are three conditions in invoking self defense here in the Philippines:

1] The other party is the aggressor.
2] You are not the aggressor and you did nothing to provoke the aggressor.
3] The use of a firearm is commensurate to the threat. There is no disparity of force, e.g. a FA against a knife (this would be incomplete self defense). According to my lawyer friend, a long bladed weapon is considered at a par with a firearm.

These apply even in home invasions. Do not fire warning shots. That is not done anymore.

Last edited by Poodle; 08-07-2009 at 16:53..
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Old 08-07-2009, 18:45   #16
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nagwawarning shot ba mga caviteno? nagwawarning shot sa ulo

2 beses na rin ako the past year na akyat bahay, pero cel fones at kitchen knives lang nawala
Got a dog, kaso maingay
Maganda rin motion detectors, kaso ako parati nahuhuli sa madaling araw. Hirap matandaan ng disarm code paglasing
Finally, got a bluguard. Mura lang kuha ko, kaso nagagalit pag ginigising

re: your question
matagal ko na rin yan pinagiisipan
Kasi on one of our akyat bahay episodes, umuwi ako while they were inside my compound. Buti nalang hindi ako kinarne hehe coz I was wasted
Sakin the closer ang distansya ng bg, i'd shoot lalo kung more than 1. Wala nang time mag isip kasi. Anyway, handa naman mamatay mga hayop na yun.
So kung nasa loob ng bahay, shoot na agad.....malamang di ko naman tamaan e haha
Kung outside trhe house, warning shot at warning shout ( @#$%^ mo!! )
This may not apply sa Manila
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Old 08-07-2009, 22:02   #17
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shoot as seen!
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Old 08-07-2009, 23:13   #18
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Quote:
Maganda rin motion detectors, kaso ako parati nahuhuli sa madaling araw. Hirap matandaan ng disarm code paglasing
sir, magkano kaya ang ganito? saan ka nag score? effective? baka kahit daga mag aa-larm sya....tyvm!

Quote:
Never fire a warning shot. Fire to stop the threat. Do not pull your firearm unless you intend to use it in self-defense.

i concur.
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Old 08-07-2009, 23:19   #19
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Wouldn't the fact that there was an intruder in the house give you the right to shoot?
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Old 08-07-2009, 23:48   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Shark View Post
Wouldn't the fact that there was an intruder in the house give you the right to shoot?
Unfortunately, Philippine laws do not allow excessive force to be used even if a BG is already inside the house for as long as there was no threat to any life, then lethal force cannot be justified.

There are however practicalities in life, which I will leave it to one's imagination.

Cant remember some known saying = better to be tried by 12 than be carried by 6. Obviously a BG lying on the floor, inside your house with a deadly weapon cannot defend himself in court. The evidences would point to what/ how the situation escalated for one to use lethal force
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