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Old 09-10-2009, 15:47   #1
odesskiy
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So, I am banned from FrontSight!

This is pretty funny. I attended FS two years ago and took a 4-day Defensive Handgun course. I was rather impressed by training but no so impressed by their marketing shpiel and their membership system. But more on that later.

I didn't really consider going back, but there is a 4-Day rifle class being put on at the end of this month and it's meant to benefit a good cause, so I figured I'd attend. I was looking forward to meeting and shooting with fellow Calgunners. More on this class:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=205793

So I printed out FS's application, filled it out and faxed it in. Here's the reply I got back:

Quote:
Hi Ed,

Thank you for submitting an application to Front Sight to attend the training under the Basich Group Rifle class 09/25/2009

Unfortunately we are not able to provide you training at Front Sight at this time or in the future and we have canceled your enrollment into this course on 09/25/2009.

This cancelation and ban from attending training at Front Sight stems from your post on internet chat boards about Front Sight.

We have not charged your credit card for the criminal background check.

Thank you.

Jonathan Landwer
Executive Assistant

Front Sight Firearms Training Inst.
P.O. Box 2619
Aptos Ca. 95001
At first I wasn't even sure what he was talking about, so I e-mailed him back and then he made a reference that made me remember posting here on GT after initially attending their class.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=10

I guess my e-mail address is similar enough to my handle.

Seriously, what kind of pathetic company instead of concentrating on running their business would scour the internet to find people that had less than stellar things to say about them? What's even funnier is that everything I predicted two years ago is coming to fruition. FS even briefly went into recievership not that long ago. The prices of memberships are down to almost nothing. The $200K Diamond Memberships they used to sell to suckered customers are now going for $5K. I talked to a gentleman that recently bought a Diamond Membership for $7K. Wanna guess what the extra $2K were for? A timeshare that would allow you to spend a week in one of the condo's that will be built on Front Sight's property. Are you friggin' kidding me? I remember hearing about that million-dollar septic system more than 2.5 years ago. As far as I know, everyone is still using porta-potties. This has all the makings of a pyramid scheme. They will keep dropping the prices until they can no longer attract new customers and then there will be no capital to pay the bills and then the doors will close for good.

Oh well, thank goodness there are still plenty of companies around that provide high-quality firearms training without any gimmicks, lies and scams.
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Old 09-10-2009, 15:59   #2
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Seriously, what kind of pathetic company instead of concentrating on running their business would scour the internet to find people that had less than stellar things to say about them?
Don't know about "scouring the internet" but I'm aware of at least 1 other major training group that has banned (several) people from their classes based on comments on gun forums, and a couple of lower echelon folks that have done it.
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:05   #3
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I must admit that is pretty darn funny!

Edited to add:
I just read the whole thread in which you posted (and consequently got you banned) and I just noticed that that I too have a post there... Does that mean I am banned too?!?!
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:13   #4
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LOL...will you be unable to sleep if you are?

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Originally Posted by cysoto View Post
I must admit that is pretty darn funny!

Edited to add:
I just read the whole thread in which you posted (and consequently got you banned) and I just noticed that that I too have a post there... Does that mean I am banned too?!?!
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:15   #5
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That's pretty funny, in a sad kind of a way. I don't know as I'll ever actually take any advanced training of that nature (I'd like to, but finances, y'know), but, were I to ever seriously entertain the notion, I'm kind of thinking FS is not where I'd care to go, with that kind of attitude.

Oh damn, I'm probably banned now, too
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:15   #6
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That's just terrible business practice. Why not try to make your customers happy instead?

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Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
Don't know about "scouring the internet" but I'm aware of at least 1 other major training group that has banned (several) people from their classes based on comments on gun forums, and a couple of lower echelon folks that have done it.
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:17   #7
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Originally Posted by odesskiy View Post
LOL...will you be unable to sleep if you are?
I don't know if I can continue to live! Life is worthless to me if I can't attend Front Sight and be indoctrinated by Dr. Piazza.
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:19   #8
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What a tool or is that a fool Jonathan Landwer Executive Assistantis! Now I am banned too! !

ASS HATS. Mouth breathing, cork soaking, motor frigging, inbred, moss eating trolls!
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:20   #9
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Quote:
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I don't know if I can continue to live! Life is worthless to me if I can't attend Front Sight and be indoctrinated by Dr. Piazza.
Dr. Piece-o-crap!
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:55   #10
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Originally Posted by odesskiy View Post
That's just terrible business practice. Why not try to make your customers happy instead?
I don't know, but one of the more popular trainers with many fans here has done it regularly, and the sycophants just keep flocking to him. I've always tried to pick trainers as much on their reputation as honest, stand-up folks as on the quality of the training. Others don't seem to feel that way.
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Old 09-10-2009, 16:55   #11
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From your post, and from other posts I have read: Front Sight = Scientologists.
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Old 09-10-2009, 17:03   #12
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I kinda wondered about this company when I saw the $500 Glock armorers course where you had to bring your own tools and firearm; and apparently you are not considered an armorer by the factory (for the purchase of parts or firearms). It doesn't seem like much of a bargain compared to the $150 factory course.

Or the $1000 rappelling course. We used to teach a rappelling course for free several years ago (we were taught by 30 year SF veteran). Yeah, you would probably get more from FS - but you should for a grand.

I can't say much about the actual classes. I know two or three people who have attended FS, and they seemed happy with the classes. – They seem to be a bit high on the price tag though.

======

After reading your link to "more on the class" - it seems that they rejected your donation to "Freedom Above Fortune Radio Show".
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Old 09-10-2009, 17:22   #13
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Strange. I've always felt criticism was beneficial. You learned from what they said and improved. If they could read the internet post complaining about their class then they could have responded to that post and offered to make good. Now that sells classes!

Guess they don't look at it that way.

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Old 09-10-2009, 17:33   #14
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It is not what you posted.

It is where you posted. Here at Glock Talk.

We have history with FS.

And this thread will most likely get Closed.
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Old 09-10-2009, 17:35   #15
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This is what happens when ego gets in the way of common sense. Instead of banning you, the guy should have welcomed you with open arms. It is not often that you get a second chance with a disgruntled customer.
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:44   #16
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What's sad is that I really wasn't disgruntled. If you read my post from two years ago (linked in my original post), I had only good things to say about their training and I was actually looking to getting rifle training as well.

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This is what happens when ego gets in the way of common sense. Instead of banning you, the guy should have welcomed you with open arms. It is not often that you get a second chance with a disgruntled customer.
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:45   #17
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Why should it get closed?

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Originally Posted by bobby_w View Post
It is not what you posted.

It is where you posted. Here at Glock Talk.

We have history with FS.

And this thread will most likely get Closed.
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Old 09-10-2009, 18:56   #18
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walmart sucks, walmart sucks, walmart sucks. banned baby!!! FS deserves to go out of business.
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Old 09-10-2009, 19:08   #19
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Don't lose any sleep over this BS with FS. I lived in Vegas for Eleven years and their are a lot of people that are not happy with them. I will be moving back to Vegas about a month from now and I hope I don't have to hear the FS BS when I get back.

Paulie

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Old 09-10-2009, 19:26   #20
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Front Sight generates more soap opera drama than any other school in the country. If they had any interest in customer service, they would have handled this differently. In fact, I see no reason for them to “handle” this at all. You really didn’t say anything derogatory.
Even though they banned you, I notice they didn’t call you a liar!
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Old 09-10-2009, 19:30   #21
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LOL....kinda hard to call somebody a liar for telling the truth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Foster View Post
Front Sight generates more soap opera drama than any other school in the country. If they had any interest in customer service, they would have handled this differently. In fact, I see no reason for them to “handle” this at all. You really didn’t say anything derogatory.
Even though they banned you, I notice they didn’t call you a liar!
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Old 09-10-2009, 19:34   #22
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So what's the deal with the sales pitch?
Mandatory?
Do they ask me to leave if I suddenly have a bout of diarhea?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 09-10-2009, 20:02   #23
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Originally Posted by bobby_w View Post
It is not what you posted.

It is where you posted. Here at Glock Talk.

We have history with FS.

And this thread will most likely get Closed.
We have history with FS? That's good to know.

On another note, there are gun shops that I have not been particularly happy with, but most of them know that they can re-earn my business if they treat me well when I give them a second chance. Kicking me out because I had some criticism of past performance is a sure way to guarantee my opinion of them won't improve.
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Old 09-10-2009, 20:20   #24
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It is not mandatory at all. You are free to come and go as you choose. It happens during the lunch break but most people stay because you don't have enough time to drive to Pahrump to get food. The pitch is not high-pressure, there's no arm-twisting of any sort.

The problem I had was not with how they were selling, it's WHAT they were selling. I felt and still feel that the whole thing reeks of a Ponzi scheme. I'd be extremely pissed off if I bought a membership for $50,000 and two years later it'd be selling for 10% of that.

Quote:
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So what's the deal with the sales pitch?
Mandatory?
Do they ask me to leave if I suddenly have a bout of diarhea?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 09-10-2009, 20:29   #25
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Wow, it will be so hard to find a legitimate trainer to take your money...whatever will you do
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