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Old 05-21-2010, 12:11   #1
marvin
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Lights on weapons

with all the threads lately about lights on their weapons, i have to ask.

am i the only one how feels weird about having to aim my weapon at someone to be able to identify them.

if something goes bump in the night it's a good bet it's one of my teenagers or one of their friends or a boy or a girl sneeking out of my kids rooms. on secound thought might want to scare them a bit. but you get my point i don't want to have to point a loaded weapon at someone i don't want to shoot.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:13   #2
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Cops do it all the time. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:16   #3
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you dont have to point the gun at this. This has been demonstrated numerous times with lights and lasers.

Just because my light is on someime doesnt mean my gun is sighted in on them. You get a lot of "splash", especially indoors. This is also why I personally want a 120+ lumen light on my weapon.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:22   #4
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but you get my point i don't want to have to point a loaded weapon at someone i don't want to shoot.
You would have to identify the target (with your light) before making a shoot/no-shoot decision. If you are in a situation where the decision swings to the "shoot" part of the deal, you'd already have your weapon on them already.
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:00   #5
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Originally Posted by RMTactical View Post
Cops do it all the time. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.


yes, but cops are going into a house knowing that there might be trouble. 99.99% of the time i'm going to find the dog's knocked over the trash.

i've been shooting IPSC for the last 15 years so i know all about keeping my finger of the trigger. but at the same time i've spent 30 years learning to not pointing my weapons at anything i don't want a hole in.
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:05   #6
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you dont have to point the gun at this. This has been demonstrated numerous times with lights and lasers.

Just because my light is on someime doesnt mean my gun is sighted in on them. You get a lot of "splash", especially indoors. This is also why I personally want a 120+ lumen light on my weapon.
you know i didn't think to much about "splash". i'm going to have to try this to see how close i'd be.
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:17   #7
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Quote:
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yes, but cops are going into a house knowing that there might be trouble. 99.99% of the time i'm going to find the dog's knocked over the trash.

i've been shooting IPSC for the last 15 years so i know all about keeping my finger of the trigger. but at the same time i've spent 30 years learning to not pointing my weapons at anything i don't want a hole in.
Actually, they draw weapons all the time knowing that it's unlikely they will have to use them, but prepared to at all times. They point their weapons at people far far more often than they ever actually shoot.

I know cops that have been working the streets for years and years and never actually shot someone other than with a bean bag shotgun or a taser (and even that is not an especially common occurence).
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:17   #8
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You would have to identify the target (with your light) before making a shoot/no-shoot decision. If you are in a situation where the decision swings to the "shoot" part of the deal, you'd already have your weapon on them already.

if i've got my gun at the low ready i'd b e able to get into action pretty fast. but if it's someone i don't want to shoot i won't have a gun in their face. i know keep your finger off the trigger, but "shet" happens like it or not. if your aiming at the floor everyone gets a scare, at someone a tragedy.
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:26   #9
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if i've got my gun at the low ready i'd b e able to get into action pretty fast. but if it's someone i don't want to shoot i won't have a gun in their face. i know keep your finger off the trigger, but "shet" happens like it or not. if your aiming at the floor everyone gets a scare, at someone a tragedy.
Keep in mind this is a rifle forum. How would you hold your rifle at the low-rady, and also hold a flashlight? I don't feel that holding a rifle in one hand and a light in the other is the way to go. If you were using a rifle in this type of situation, you'd have to drop your flashlight to properly use your rifle, then your target would no longer be illuminated, and you would be shooting in the dark with your night-vision ruined.

There's a reason why weapon-mounted lights are popular, why our Military uses them, and why most here see them as a necessity on a rifle.

Honestly, you're looking at this in a more emotional and less logical manner. How you "feel" about this type of issue is nowhere near as important as what has been proven to work well.

You and the people you care about would actually be much safer if you did have a weapon-mounted light on your rifle, rather than having you fumbling around in the dark with a rifle in one hand and a light in the other.

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Old 05-21-2010, 13:29   #10
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Actually, they draw weapons all the time knowing that it's unlikely they will have to use them, but prepared to at all times. They point their weapons at people far far more often than they ever actually shoot.

I know cops that have been working the streets for years and years and never actually shot someone other than with a bean bag shotgun or a taser.
and thank God they don't have to shoot. but going into a drug house the chance of needing to shoot are much higher than mine. i don't want to compare my needs to though's of the police.

i guess what it comes down to is i don't want to be anywhere near to pointing my gun at a loved one.
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:33   #11
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I understand your thinking on this issue. I struggled with it for a time as well. Then I was on the fence, now I am on the side of the need for lights on home defense weapons.

If you don't trust yourself to make the right call then maybe you are better off without a light on your weapon. I feel confident in my ability so I want a light.

You may change your mind on this issue. Probably not overnight, but eventually.
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:38   #12
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I'd look more into the issue of people sneaking into and out of your house, for starters.

As was already said, there is the use of 'splash'.

Aside from that, listen close. I'd imagine there's a difference between the soundss of a family member going to the fridge or bathroom, vs someone who is not supposed to be there.

In my situation, there are two other people in my house; my wife and our son. Wife can easily be ruled out if she's next to me (more on that later) and my son can't climb out of his crib yet. As that changes, a quick trip to his room could rule that out...

Having said that....if there's someone in my home (other than those two) I will be pointing a firearm at the them as I probably do intend to put a hole in them.

Back to my wife....this just happened the other week. One night at dinner she had asked me why I hit her in the night. I hadn't remembered until she mentioned it.....in my sleep, something had woke me, and the first thing I did was swat next to me to make sure she was there. She was, and I thumped her out of her sleep. On one hand, I think it's great that I have an impulse reaction like that. On the other hand, she doesn't think that it's great that I have an impulse reaction like that.
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:40   #13
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Back to my wife....this just happened the other week. One night at dinner she had asked me why I hit her in the night. I hadn't remembered until she mentioned it.....in my sleep, something had woke me, and the first thing I did was swat next to me to make sure she was there. She was, and I thumped her out of her sleep. On one hand, I think it's great that I have an impulse reaction like that. On the other hand, she doesn't think that it's great that I have an impulse reaction like that.
I'm guilty of that too...
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Old 05-21-2010, 13:44   #14
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Honestly, you're looking at this in a more emotional and less logical manner. How you "feel" about this type of issue is nowhere near as important as what has been proven to work well.
This is a very good point, and I think along the lines of people not carrying their CCW with a round in the chamber. Logically, it makes more sense, but to some, emotionally they don't have the comfort.

In the dark....I'd rather point a gun at a family member with a light, than point at anyone without one.
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Old 05-21-2010, 14:44   #15
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Sig 226 with Insight M3 attached is my nightstand gun. My den is about 25'x18' and has 12' ceilings. Darker colored walls with off white ceilings and wood floors.If I come out of the hallway which is on one of the shorter walls and point the gun with light attached at the floor and turn it on, it will illuminate the entire room enough to clearly identify anyone standing in the room. I have tried numerous times to get a picture of this but my my point and shoot produces barley legible images in the low light. Its enough light to clearly see someones face from across the room but the camera has a hard time dealing with it for some reason.

Weapon lights tend to have a lot of spill and I know my on my M3 if you turn the head the beam will adjust from wide to tight much like a Mag light will. I have it adjusted so that there is about an 8" defined ring out to about 15' so I would say I am probably on the tighter side of the adjustment yet still have enough light.

So you do not have to point the weapon at the object you are trying to identify in order to have enough light for a positive ID.
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Old 05-21-2010, 22:25   #16
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:37   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin View Post
with all the threads lately about lights on their weapons, i have to ask.

am i the only one how feels weird about having to aim my weapon at someone to be able to identify them.

if something goes bump in the night it's a good bet it's one of my teenagers or one of their friends or a boy or a girl sneeking out of my kids rooms. on secound thought might want to scare them a bit. but you get my point i don't want to have to point a loaded weapon at someone i don't want to shoot.
You have come across a hotely debated subject in law enforcement. First you don't have to point directly at the area you are wishing to illuminate. You can point at the ground and there is enough light spash to see the subjects. That is one school of thought. Another is this. If I am searching an area everything is a potential threat until I see otherwise. So once I ID you the muzzle comes down. As long as your trigger finger discipline is good. (it darn well shouldbe) your fine.

Weapon lights are invaluable in my line of work. You can get by using a hand held light with a pistol but with a rifle its difficult and with a shotgun its about impossible. Your concern is valid but there is no perfect solution. Its simply too important to be able to illuminate the target to ID it. I don't want to go back to the days of hand held lights like when I first started in LEO work. Weapon lights make building searches much easier and safer for us.
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Old 05-22-2010, 01:58   #18
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Here is the great thing about lights on your gun. "They have an on off switch!" If you dont want to use it then dont turn it on. Consider it cheap insurance. At least you have it if you need it. What you dont want is to need it and not have it! Also mentioned is "splash" many modern lights are specifically designed for increased splash zones of light for this exact reason.

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Old 05-22-2010, 14:15   #19
marvin
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Originally Posted by JASV.17 View Post
I'd look more into the issue of people sneaking into and out of your house, for starters.

As was already said, there is the use of 'splash'.

Aside from that, listen close. I'd imagine there's a difference between the soundss of a family member going to the fridge or bathroom, vs someone who is not supposed to be there.

In my situation, there are two other people in my house; my wife and our son. Wife can easily be ruled out if she's next to me (more on that later) and my son can't climb out of his crib yet. As that changes, a quick trip to his room could rule that out...

Having said that....if there's someone in my home (other than those two) I will be pointing a firearm at the them as I probably do intend to put a hole in them.

Back to my wife....this just happened the other week. One night at dinner she had asked me why I hit her in the night. I hadn't remembered until she mentioned it.....in my sleep, something had woke me, and the first thing I did was swat next to me to make sure she was there. She was, and I thumped her out of her sleep. On one hand, I think it's great that I have an impulse reaction like that. On the other hand, she doesn't think that it's great that I have an impulse reaction like that.
i should point out that these isn't a big fear for me. i live in the country outside of a small town. i live with my wife, 2 teenagers and my mother inlaw and 2 dogs. my house has become the go to place for my kids friends somebody is over all most every weekend. while my dogs aren't guard dogs, they will bark at strangers. to tell the truth something would have to fall over and make a load noise before i'd wake up.
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Old 05-22-2010, 14:36   #20
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Quote:
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i should point out that these isn't a big fear for me. i live in the country outside of a small town. i live with my wife, 2 teenagers and my mother inlaw and 2 dogs. my house has become the go to place for my kids friends somebody is over all most every weekend. while my dogs aren't guard dogs, they will bark at strangers. to tell the truth something would have to fall over and make a load noise before i'd wake up.
You have a valid concern and I believe they will only be resolved by getting some training in the use of weapon lights.
Pat
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