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Old 09-26-2009, 15:47   #1
PATRICE
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Old 09-26-2009, 17:36   #2
sawgrass
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I didn't really think about this until I took my CC class. The instructor covered the sites. When I shoot for fun I am very slow and deliberate. I try and shoot as small a group as I'm capable of. In that regard I'm amazed at how different ammo effects these results. Guns can be really picky.

Since the class, I try and unload my carry pistols as fast as I can. I practice keeping
my arms and grip strong. I figure if I can keep them on the paper, I can keep them in a bg if necessary. An ounce of prevention I'm hoping.
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Old 09-27-2009, 18:00   #3
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I've known and worked with a few Special Forces guys over the years. They've all had the same mantra: "Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast." You make mistakes when you get in a hurry. Front sight, squeeze, repeat -- concentrating on the target will make time a non-issue.

Don't shoot for speed. The more you practice, the faster you'll get on target. Emptying the gun as fast as you can on target will get you fast at the trigger but doesn't teach to get it on target... Expand the target area, think center-mass instead of just the X-ring. Shoot for accuracy quickly.
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Old 09-27-2009, 18:24   #4
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start slow - you can't miss fast enough to save yourself. But ultimately you need to train in conditions as close to those as you will find in real life... standing on a range, with all the time in the world, with an unmoving target, will not cut it in the real world. Learn to use cover and concealment. Learn to shoot in positions other than standing. Learn to shoot weak-hand only (if you do force-on-force training, you will get hit in the hand(s) and will immediately realize why this is a necessary skill). Get some training where YOU move off the x, shooting. Get force-on-force training where your target is moving. Then get to where both of you are moving, and firing. You won't realize how little you know, til you practice this way...

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Old 09-27-2009, 18:32   #5
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I try to do a little of both in a typical range session. I'll shoot some slow, deliberate aimed fire, trying to punch out the X ring. Then some double, triple taps, mag changes, multiple targets, drawing from the holster.
I usually shoot a couple of mags where I'll fire 4-5-6 rounds, aiming for center mass, as fast as I can.
Some of the practice can be with a 22, as well. Doesn't have recoil, but still good practice lining up the sights, point shooting, transitions.
It's all good.
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Old 09-27-2009, 18:47   #6
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Get some training where YOU move off the x, shooting. Get force-on-force training where your target is moving. Then get to where both of you are moving, and firing. You won't realize how little you know, til you practice this way...
Where would one look for this type of training? I'm able to shoot at
three places, one indoor range, and two outdoor ranges. I'm not aware of
anything like this.

Just reading this makes me aware of how little I know.
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Old 09-27-2009, 19:29   #7
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International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA)

Ladies, try IDPA for reality based shooting scenarios. First of all, IDPA is a shooting sport, but it is about the most realistic training tool you can be involved in. You will be introduced to real world shooting scenarios, with shoot and no shoot targets, shooting from behind cover, low light and flashlight aided shooting, close contact and distance shooting, and shooting on the move. You will get trigger time, learn how to use your sights properly, and most of all, you will learn how to use your chosen weapon safely. It's the closest thing to a gunfight without having to be in one. Stay safe and have fun By the way, you can go observe and see if IDPA would be something you may want to try. See you at the range!
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:03   #8
Mrs.Cicero
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Originally Posted by sawgrass View Post
Where would one look for this type of training? I'm able to shoot at three places, one indoor range, and two outdoor ranges. I'm not aware of anything like this.
Just reading this makes me aware of how little I know.
I usually go to LWTA in PA (the website is lethalweaponstraining.com) every year because (major reason) their instructors are excellent, also, the classes are on weekends, and they are affordable (if I reload!). But it depends on where you live and/or how far you want to travel and how much you want to pay... Google "advanced pistol training" or "tactical pistol courses (or classes)" or something similar. If you are rolling in cash and have a week of vacation coming, check out Gunsite, FrontSight, Thunder Ranch, and/or
US Training Center (formerly Blackwater - ustraining.com is the address now). Read through their class descriptions for advanced pistol or tactical pistol - when you get to something you've never trained to do - you know what you need to learn next

Some ranges will bring in contract instructors to teach classes like this, too. You can always check out well-known pistol instructors websites and check their calendars to see if any are coming to a range near you.

Roundgun mentioned IDPA - it is good practice as long as you don't start gaming it, and as long as you get some good instruction first so you don't pick up bad habits you then have to break. Depending on your location, it may be the only live-fire practice of these skills that you can find, but keep in mind, your targets are still not shooting back, and you are still not moving when you shoot (at least, the IDPA shoots I attended last year did not allow this - you had to move TO cover/concealment, but could not shoot til you got there).

Last note, once you get some training you have to find some place to practice it - and the indoor ranges here don't even allow drawing from concealment while standing on the line. My personal solution has been to go to the outdoor range we belong to, on Friday nights (esp in winter!) when no one else is there, and spend an hour just practicing drawing and firing while stepping off the x and then shooting while moving forward, backward, left, right, and diagonally inside 15 yards, then practicing strong hand & weak hand shooting and manipulation... some of the manipulation could be practiced at home with dummy rounds, but if I have to do one more thing here at home I will lose what is left of my mind.

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Old 09-28-2009, 09:13   #9
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Patrice, speed comes with skill, it never works the other way around...a slow hit beats 10 fast misses any day of the week..

With slow, deliberate shooting you will learn the basic fundamentals of shooting...as your skills increase your shot groups will shrink...as your groups shrink, you'll start to speed up...the groups will open up a bit, then shrink again as you become proficient at that speed...then you speed up a lil more....not very many people can shoot like Jerry Miculek...
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Old 09-28-2009, 18:35   #10
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You have to realize that carrying a gun gives you at the least a possibility of using it against someone wanting to hurt you. I have had the unfortunate experience three times and that is not covering anything in the military.
In most real world confrontations the distance is going to be closer than most people practice at. Things happen very quickly from the moment you realize that you are in trouble.
If you are fortunate enough to draw and get the first round off it will more than likely be with one hand and no real awareness of sight alignment or sight picture. It will be point and shoot.
Anyone who says otherwise may not have been close enough to smell the alcohol on their breath and see the bloodshot eyes.
If you practice a one handed shoot at ten feet using point shooting with both eyes open I think that this is as close to reality as you can practice for.
Then you can start moving and shooting and at farther distances.
Get the first part down and then progress to the more difficult shooting.
Draw and fire one handed both eyes open with as many rounds shot that you can control enough to hit a target the size of a man's chest. Do this until it is easy to do.
Then worry about the more complicated stuff.
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Old 09-28-2009, 23:12   #11
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If you are rolling in cash and have a week of vacation coming, check out Gunsite, FrontSight, Thunder Ranch, and/or
unfortunately no, (have to protect the gun fund $)



Quote:
I usually go to LWTA in PA (the website is lethalweaponstraining.com) every year because (major reason) their instructors are excellent, also, the classes are on weekends, and they are affordable (if I reload!).
I'll check out the web site. It sounds a little intimidating, but fun too.
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