GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2010, 22:46   #26
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
hey guys. On the 147gr WWB thread here, we went all over the country about the WWB 147gr JHP.. I like it. I like 147gr'ers for the 9mil.

on this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/l...ages/RA9T.aspx You will find the Ranger T RA9T series 147gr bullet at 990fps and 320ft lbs.

On this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/h.../USA9JHP2.aspx You will find the WWB 147gr JHP athe exact same 990fps, and 320ft lbs.

Now, being familiar with the latter. What is going to be the dif between these to other than $$$$ ?

I mean what will the RA9T bullet do at the same specs, that the WWB at the same specs won't do ?




Edited to say. I answered my own question and if you will continue to read, I also CORRECTED ALL MY TYPO's ERROR's

Hope these were not an inconvenience to any one. I am sorry guys!

Even I make mistakes !




CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7

Last edited by CanyonMan; 02-11-2010 at 08:18..
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 13:21   #27
remat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
hey guys. On the 147gr WWB thread here, we went all over the country about the WWB 147gr JHP.. I like it. I like 147gr'ers for the 9mil. But , please allow me to show CanyonMans ignorance here for a moment with this.

on this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/l...ages/RA9T.aspx You will find the Ranger T RA9T series 147gr bullet at 990fps and 320ft lbs.

On this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/h.../USA9JHP2.aspx You will find the WWB 147gr JHP athe exact same 990fps, and 320ft lbs.

Now, being familiar with the latter. What is going to be the dif between these to other than $$$$ ?

I mean what will the RA9T bullet do at the same specs, that the WWB at the same specs won't do ?

...

But my question is, in this situation above. What besides $$$ is going to matter ?

BTW, real glad to see a good deal of 147gr guys, (heavy for calber guys).
I assume that the premium ammo is going to used nickel plated brass, use low flash/recoil powder, and be loaded to higher QC standards but I haven't actually seen any. I also assume that the pic is wrong and the WWB is a JHP and not a soft point

So, anybody have a supplier for the WWB? I definitely want to try some!
remat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 14:54   #28
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
hey guys. On the 147gr WWB thread here, we went all over the country about the WWB 147gr JHP.. I like it. I like 147gr'ers for the 9mil. But , please allow me to show CanyonMans ignorance here for a moment with this.

on this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/l...ages/RA9T.aspx You will find the Ranger T RA9T series 147gr bullet at 990fps and 320ft lbs.

On this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/h.../USA9JHP2.aspx You will find the WWB 147gr JHP athe exact same 990fps, and 320ft lbs.

Now, being familiar with the latter. What is going to be the dif between these to other than $$$$ ?

I mean what will the RA9T bullet do at the same specs, that the WWB at the same specs won't do ?

Serious question. I am curious. I find this real interesting (for me at least).

I know the 147gr WWB JHP gets extreme penetration. I am familiar with the " T ' series bullets, as I have carried them in other calibers etc..

But my question is, in this situation above. What besides $$$ is going to matter ?

BTW, real glad to see a good deal of 147gr guys, (heavy for calber guys).




CanyonMan
The WWB JHP is the old subsonic OSM load that was notorious for failing to expand and generally gave 147 grain loads their bad name.

The Ranger ammo expands very reliably, uses low flash powder, has sealed cases, etc.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
"Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You have to set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 22:06   #29
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
The WWB JHP is the old subsonic OSM load that was notorious for failing to expand and generally gave 147 grain loads their bad name.

The Ranger ammo expands very reliably, uses low flash powder, has sealed cases, etc.

Regards,
Happyguy


Well after I posted and re-read my post a couple of times, and thought about it, and rememberd some things, I actually answered my own concerns. It is really quite simple.

The RA9T T series are very quick to expand, "not for me" I need penetration.
After a long talk with a good friend of mine at Winchester ammo plant last weeK about the 147gr WWB JHP, it is a simple thing to understand.

The RA9T T series are not going to penetrate like the WWB JHP because of the serations in the bullet from the pedal on down. The T series is designed to open fast, and the other design is a long standing bullet design for penetration. As My friend at WW and I talked about for almost an hour on the phone. Even the 127gr Ranger +P+ will not penetrate as far and deep as the WWB 147gr sub sonic. The latter, is designed to really penetrate. it was was originally desiged to be used in sniper rifles for the army years ago.

As ART, my good friend at WW explained. This WWB 147gr JHP is a very well designed bullet for penetration and that is my agenda. Penetration. Not rapid expansion that as he said, really lacks in "Real world' senerios not jello and water jug test, but in real flesh and blood. I really had just went brain numb until, as I said, I re-read my own post, and answered my own question.


Thanks for the replies boys. Appreciate it...


EDIT NOTE**** It was designed for sniper rifle, yes. But I originally had a major typo in here about the yardage.. Sorry ! Even I make mistakes !

CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7

Last edited by CanyonMan; 02-11-2010 at 08:03..
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 23:33   #30
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,407
Do you have any links to hard data showing actual penetration tests for the WWB JHP?

If you favor penetration get the Ranger Bonded versions. The 124 gr +P actually penetrates more than the 147 gr in 4 layer denim and heavy cloth (by over 2").

Last edited by cowboy1964; 02-06-2010 at 23:41..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 23:35   #31
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 14,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Even the 127gr Ranger +P+ will not penetrate as far and deep as the WWB 147gr sub sonic. The latter, is designed to really penetrate. it was was originally desiged to be used in 1,000 yd sniper rifles for the army years ago.
A handgun cartridge for a 1000 yard sniper rifle???
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 04:27   #32
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
A handgun cartridge for a 1000 yard sniper rifle???
Actually it was designed for suppressed submachine guns. Hence the requirement that it be subsonic.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
"Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You have to set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow

Last edited by happyguy; 02-07-2010 at 04:33..
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 04:29   #33
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Well after I posted and re-read my post a couple of times, and thought about it, and rememberd some things, I actually answered my own concerns. It is really quite simple.

The RA9T T series are very quick to expand, "not for me" I need penetration.
After a long talk with a good friend of mine at Winchester ammo plant last weeK about the 147gr WWB JHP, it is a simple thing to understand.

The RA9T T series are not going to penetrate like the WWB JHP because of the serations in the bullet from the pedal on down. The T series is designed to open fast, and the other design is a long standing bullet design for penetration. As My friend at WW and I talked about for almost an hour on the phone. Even the 127gr Ranger +P+ will not penetrate as far and deep as the WWB 147gr sub sonic. The latter, is designed to really penetrate. it was was originally desiged to be used in 1,000 yd sniper rifles for the army years ago.

As ART, my good friend at WW explained. This WWB 147gr JHP is a very well designed bullet for penetration and that is my agenda. Penetration. Not rapid expansion that as he said, really lacks in "Real world' senerios not jello and water jug test, but in real flesh and blood. I really had just went brain numb until, as I said, I re-read my own post, and answered my own question.


Thanks for the replies boys. Appreciate it...




CanyonMan
The RA9T generally penetrates 16 inches or so in clothed gelatin. Do you really need more penetration than that? What are you shooting?

When shooting clothed targets the WWB load rarely expands enough to justify the extra cost. You could just go with FMJ and save money IHMO.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
"Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You have to set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow

Last edited by happyguy; 02-07-2010 at 04:32..
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 07:32   #34
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Do you have any links to hard data showing actual penetration tests for the WWB JHP?

If you favor penetration get the Ranger Bonded versions. The 124 gr +P actually penetrates more than the 147 gr in 4 layer denim and heavy cloth (by over 2").


YES. Until we do are own testing (see below), feel fre to talk to art at WW. He is all the proof I need at the moment. His word and years of experience and "out there doing it" are fine for me, and as I said, we will do this for ourselves on more realistic terms as time allows.... Because water jug test and gelatin test are not a real world senerio. The test that we have not run on "this bullet yet", and will try to do later is the ribcage / hinqurter beef stuffed with organs and a couple of shirts and a coat thrown over it. These have proved to be far closer to the real world than a jello block or water hug with 4 layers of denim which no one in real life wears.

I understand that a bonded bullet out penetrates "usually" a non bonded.
But i prefer a heavy for caliber bullet for more momentem and deeper pen.



CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 07:36   #35
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
A handgun cartridge for a 1000 yard sniper rifle???

NO... EDITED***** I really made a major error in the 1,000 yd deal. It WAS designed to be a sniper round, but NOT at that distance. Major typo and eror on my part all. Sorry.

Read this thread that myself and some buds went through a few weeks ago.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173831

It is a long thread. But if you will read it all and take the time to go through it, it will be interesting info for ya on this WWB 147gr'er.



CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7

Last edited by CanyonMan; 02-11-2010 at 15:49..
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 07:43   #36
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
The RA9T generally penetrates 16 inches or so in clothed gelatin. Do you really need more penetration than that? What are you shooting?

When shooting clothed targets the WWB load rarely expands enough to justify the extra cost. You could just go with FMJ and save money IHMO.

Regards,
Happyguy

Well, not to be smart. But I am not shooting 4 layers of denim drapped over a gelatin block. These test, although are as we all know 'standard procedure', they are not realistic.


I here your thoughts on the "extra $$$,' but actually I can get the 50 count on these for around 18/25.00 depending on if my particular supplier has them, since they would only be used for SD I do not need a stock pile, but I hear where your comin from.




CM
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 07:49   #37
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Yep. This is exaxctly what the WWB 147gr JHP was designed for years ago. Sniper work.

CanyonMan
What weapon/cartridge combo did they develop this bullet for?

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
"Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You have to set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 07:53   #38
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by remat View Post
I assume that the premium ammo is going to used nickel plated brass, use low flash/recoil powder, and be loaded to higher QC standards but I haven't actually seen any. I also assume that the pic is wrong and the WWB is a JHP and not a soft point

So, anybody have a supplier for the WWB? I definitely want to try some!
Well you have 'assumed correctly on some of this." The WWB 147gr JHP does use a more FS powder than the older loads did for this round. Although they are not nickle plated, that is really not a concern to me. They feed excellent through the G19 of mine which is just a truck gun (my carry is a 45acp when in town). The G19 with this loading (WWB147), is a emergecy/or bobcat/coyote/ or whatever else shooter, or if need be in town carry when in the mood. I switch back and forth so much to under the seat truck guns I can't keep up any way. One day its a 10mm, oneday a 45LC or 44mag, just depends on mood, OR where on the ranch I am going, or if I am driving into the big city. Just another toy. I actually bought this G19 for my wife, and have grown really fond of it myself now, and I don't like 9mm.


Adios




CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 08:04   #39
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
What weapon/cartridge combo did they develop this bullet for?

Regards,
Happyguy

See: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173831
Post # 7. Plus as I said, I was also given the low down on this round buy my bud at WW. He confirmed what was said in the above thread and post.

Pretty interesting (to me), He spoke very highly in a long gab session about this plain jane little WWB round. It is not for every one to be sure. But I do require a penetrating fool in whatever I shoot. So for me it is a JHP, but does penetrate like crazy. Since a do not carry a 9mil, and it is a part time truck gun, all is well for me with it out on the ranch for different things, or shoot, (no pun inteded), in town as well....


Got to go boys and take care of some things, and then settle in for the SB game and hope that the COLTS do it right !


Adios




CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 08:15   #40
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,234
Good (accurate at the time) info about this load.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler...hester_9mm.pdf

Edited to add: I can find all kinds of references by reputable sources to this load being developed for our special forces for precision head shots in suppressed MP5's out to 50 yards, but nothing about it being developed as a 1000 yard sniper round.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
"Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You have to set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow

Last edited by happyguy; 02-07-2010 at 09:00..
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 08:28   #41
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
Good (accurate at the time) info about this load.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler...hester_9mm.pdf

Regards,
Happyguy

My last "jump in for a spell got to go go go..

Yes. Your correct this is really a good read. I already went through this article a while back. Some one else on GT gave it out. I appreciate you sending it my way though. I think i will save it to my 'gun stuff' folder.


Thanks again man.


Good shooting




CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 13:22   #42
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,441
I just can't get too excited over .53 expansion (tops) in controlled gelatin when there are so many other rounds offered today that achieve .60 and above with the minimum 12" penetration.

It looks to me from reading the link that the 147-grain WWB JHP is a reliable penetrator but a sub-par expander.
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 13:48   #43
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
I just can't get too excited over .53 expansion (tops) in controlled gelatin when there are so many other rounds offered today that achieve .60 and above with the minimum 12" penetration.

It looks to me from reading the link that the 147-grain WWB JHP is a reliable penetrator but a sub-par expander.
Actually the RA9T gets better expansion AND penetration than WWB JHP. Not quite sure how it does that but it does.

16 inches and .66 in clothed gel. According to the article I posted you can expect similar in actual use.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
"Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You have to set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow

Last edited by happyguy; 02-07-2010 at 13:50..
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 15:46   #44
Merkavaboy
Code-7A KUZ769
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In The State Of Fruitloops (CA)
Posts: 5,302
CanyonMan, I know that you're no dummy, so I'm glad you answered your own questions. The RA9T is worlds apart from the ol' OSM load.

It's all in the design baby, it's all in the design...

__________________
"I spent the last two years of high school in a daze....attended classes sparingly, drank beer heavily, and tried drugs enthusiastically."
Barack Obama
One Bad Ass Mistake America
Merkavaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 15:51   #45
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
Actually the RA9T gets better expansion AND penetration than WWB JHP. Not quite sure how it does that but it does.

16 inches and .66 in clothed gel. According to the article I posted you can expect similar in actual use.

Regards,
Happyguy

Almost "Bowl time here" so real quick... According to my own shooting, (junk stuff so far NOT our side of beef/hind quarter/guts/clothing test yet) and my friend that works at WW as well, Nope. The T won't get the penetration at all the 147wwb does. It ain't going to happen. Even the 127gr P+P 'does not' get the penetration ther wwb147 gets. They are not even designed to get that type of penetration. They, the T's are designed to open faster, thus slowing down pen. The serrations cut on the bullet are "much different" on the T than on the wwb which 'barely' has any, thus this design (wwb) allows for tremendous penetration.


It's no secret I am not even a fan of wet pack/waterjug and news paper testing. But, even in these test, the wwb147 goes throuh 5 paper/water packed milk jugs and through another plain water jug, and keeps on truckin and is not recovered. None of the T's will do this 'that I have seen'.

Again, only using this as another example, because I just am not interested in gelatin and or water jug test. Yes these are fun, no flaming please we've all been through all that stuff already. I just prefer a closer 'real world senerio' as i have probably described on here a cajillion times..


any way, fwiw...


Like I said, i answerd my own question and was runnin on one cylinder when i even posted it...


Gotta go.



CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 16:02   #46
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,234
Well, according to forensic research by the San Diego PD ME the OSM load averages about 13 inches of penetration in real live people.

I have it on good authority that the RA9T does somewhat better.

I'll stick with RA9T and the 135 grain Federal Tactical Bonded load in 9mm. The latter penetrates about the same as RA9T.

Regards,
Happyguy
__________________
"Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You have to set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 17:08   #47
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
Well, according to forensic research by the San Diego PD ME the OSM load averages about 13 inches of penetration in real live people.

I have it on good authority that the RA9T does some what better.

I'll stick with RA9T and the 135 grain Federal Tactical Bonded load in 9mm. The latter penetrates about the same as RA9T.

Regards,
Happyguy



Hope your right.....


As for all the rest. Hey my friend, just so we all know. I ain't tryin to push this wwb147 on any one. Just like it and think its is a cool little round. Again, I carry a 45acp.


Hey got to get back to the super bowl...



Good shooting.



CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 14:01   #48
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkavaboy View Post
CanyonMan, I know that you're no dummy, so I'm glad you answered your own questions. The RA9T is worlds apart from the ol' OSM load.

It's all in the design baby, it's all in the design...



Well, I don't know about that dummy part.... Ha.
I did answer my own question, and should NEVER have even ask it. Man I was totally one one cylinder when I did that, then ht the submit button. Then thought. That was dumb !

Your right amigo, you are so right....


Good shooting


CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 23:41   #49
remat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Well you have 'assumed correctly on some of this."
Partially right? That's pretty good on caliber corner -- I will take it!!

I am, like you, looking for more penetration in a less expensive round that can be used for plinking and also work as camper round. Still haven't found any though, are they readily available or is it hit and miss?
remat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 04:31   #50
cadillacguns
Senior Member
 
cadillacguns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Indianapolis, IN USA
Posts: 4,119
Philly K9, my hats off to you and your fellow officers, Parts of Philly I've seen, a G-22 w/G-27 BUG, M-4, 12 Ga in the patrol vehicle, and a "Pitbull with Aids" as a working partner, and I would still feel naked out on those streets. Only place worse would be Mogadishu North (Detroit) and Cops there need..............well, everything including the MIANG for patrol.
__________________
GLOCKS #1 FAN!!!


"IN GLOCK WE TRUST"
cadillacguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:50.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,146
352 Members
794 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42