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Old 02-05-2010, 20:45   #21
remat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandapani View Post
That's UNPOSSIBLE! Every knows that 147 grain in 9mm is crap. Only 115 grain +++P+++ will remotely do the job
...

j/k

At some point the 147gr haters will have to retract the tired mantra that there are not enough "street shootings" to "prove" that 147gr's work.

Last edited by remat; 02-05-2010 at 20:50..
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Old 02-05-2010, 20:51   #22
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WHO CARES what LA does?

...
[serious snipping]
...

That is all they need to know about me, and the end of my interest in what they do.
Ok, but I am pretty sure the OP cares since he asked.
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Old 02-05-2010, 21:09   #23
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WHO CARES what LA does? I study, and test, and hand load to superior performance. 12 years ago, I was at a police range with those steel targets that fall when you hit them. I watched as several different guys took their place, and used up to a full magazine to take them all down, with a dull ring on each hit. It came my turn. Using my P-85, loaded with the 124 gr. Hornady XTP over 8 gr. of Blue Dot with a Rem Bench Rest rifle primer, I BLASTED all 12 in just over 3 sec. The other "competitors" eyed me with suspicion. The range officer told me that he didn't want me abusing the targets that way. That was the very last time I gave a hint of a hoot about what the cops think of my loads and my shooting. I am on their side. That is all they need to know about me, and the end of my interest in what they do.
A Ruger with hand loads. (snicker...)

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Methinks there is a Mall somewhere missing its Ninja.
+ 1,000 this.
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Old 02-05-2010, 23:10   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regular Joe View Post
WHO CARES what LA does? I study, and test, and hand load to superior performance. 12 years ago, I was at a police range with those steel targets that fall when you hit them. I watched as several different guys took their place, and used up to a full magazine to take them all down, with a dull ring on each hit. It came my turn. Using my P-85, loaded with the 124 gr. Hornady XTP over 8 gr. of Blue Dot with a Rem Bench Rest rifle primer, I BLASTED all 12 in just over 3 sec. The other "competitors" eyed me with suspicion. The range officer told me that he didn't want me abusing the targets that way. That was the very last time I gave a hint of a hoot about what the cops think of my loads and my shooting. I am on their side. That is all they need to know about me, and the end of my interest in what they do.

If I was a prosecuting attorney and I found your post on this and you were in court on using deadly force, I would be throwing this in your face.
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Old 02-05-2010, 23:26   #25
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PhillyK9, how are the .45s going over? Lots of guys going to them?
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Old 02-05-2010, 23:46   #26
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hey guys. On the 147gr WWB thread here, we went all over the country about the WWB 147gr JHP.. I like it. I like 147gr'ers for the 9mil.

on this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/l...ages/RA9T.aspx You will find the Ranger T RA9T series 147gr bullet at 990fps and 320ft lbs.

On this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/h.../USA9JHP2.aspx You will find the WWB 147gr JHP athe exact same 990fps, and 320ft lbs.

Now, being familiar with the latter. What is going to be the dif between these to other than $$$$ ?

I mean what will the RA9T bullet do at the same specs, that the WWB at the same specs won't do ?




Edited to say. I answered my own question and if you will continue to read, I also CORRECTED ALL MY TYPO's ERROR's

Hope these were not an inconvenience to any one. I am sorry guys!

Even I make mistakes !




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Last edited by CanyonMan; 02-11-2010 at 09:18..
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Old 02-06-2010, 14:21   #27
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Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
hey guys. On the 147gr WWB thread here, we went all over the country about the WWB 147gr JHP.. I like it. I like 147gr'ers for the 9mil. But , please allow me to show CanyonMans ignorance here for a moment with this.

on this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/l...ages/RA9T.aspx You will find the Ranger T RA9T series 147gr bullet at 990fps and 320ft lbs.

On this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/h.../USA9JHP2.aspx You will find the WWB 147gr JHP athe exact same 990fps, and 320ft lbs.

Now, being familiar with the latter. What is going to be the dif between these to other than $$$$ ?

I mean what will the RA9T bullet do at the same specs, that the WWB at the same specs won't do ?

...

But my question is, in this situation above. What besides $$$ is going to matter ?

BTW, real glad to see a good deal of 147gr guys, (heavy for calber guys).
I assume that the premium ammo is going to used nickel plated brass, use low flash/recoil powder, and be loaded to higher QC standards but I haven't actually seen any. I also assume that the pic is wrong and the WWB is a JHP and not a soft point

So, anybody have a supplier for the WWB? I definitely want to try some!
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Old 02-06-2010, 15:54   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
hey guys. On the 147gr WWB thread here, we went all over the country about the WWB 147gr JHP.. I like it. I like 147gr'ers for the 9mil. But , please allow me to show CanyonMans ignorance here for a moment with this.

on this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/l...ages/RA9T.aspx You will find the Ranger T RA9T series 147gr bullet at 990fps and 320ft lbs.

On this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/h.../USA9JHP2.aspx You will find the WWB 147gr JHP athe exact same 990fps, and 320ft lbs.

Now, being familiar with the latter. What is going to be the dif between these to other than $$$$ ?

I mean what will the RA9T bullet do at the same specs, that the WWB at the same specs won't do ?

Serious question. I am curious. I find this real interesting (for me at least).

I know the 147gr WWB JHP gets extreme penetration. I am familiar with the " T ' series bullets, as I have carried them in other calibers etc..

But my question is, in this situation above. What besides $$$ is going to matter ?

BTW, real glad to see a good deal of 147gr guys, (heavy for calber guys).




CanyonMan
The WWB JHP is the old subsonic OSM load that was notorious for failing to expand and generally gave 147 grain loads their bad name.

The Ranger ammo expands very reliably, uses low flash powder, has sealed cases, etc.

Regards,
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Old 02-06-2010, 23:06   #29
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Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
The WWB JHP is the old subsonic OSM load that was notorious for failing to expand and generally gave 147 grain loads their bad name.

The Ranger ammo expands very reliably, uses low flash powder, has sealed cases, etc.

Regards,
Happyguy


Well after I posted and re-read my post a couple of times, and thought about it, and rememberd some things, I actually answered my own concerns. It is really quite simple.

The RA9T T series are very quick to expand, "not for me" I need penetration.
After a long talk with a good friend of mine at Winchester ammo plant last weeK about the 147gr WWB JHP, it is a simple thing to understand.

The RA9T T series are not going to penetrate like the WWB JHP because of the serations in the bullet from the pedal on down. The T series is designed to open fast, and the other design is a long standing bullet design for penetration. As My friend at WW and I talked about for almost an hour on the phone. Even the 127gr Ranger +P+ will not penetrate as far and deep as the WWB 147gr sub sonic. The latter, is designed to really penetrate. it was was originally desiged to be used in sniper rifles for the army years ago.

As ART, my good friend at WW explained. This WWB 147gr JHP is a very well designed bullet for penetration and that is my agenda. Penetration. Not rapid expansion that as he said, really lacks in "Real world' senerios not jello and water jug test, but in real flesh and blood. I really had just went brain numb until, as I said, I re-read my own post, and answered my own question.


Thanks for the replies boys. Appreciate it...


EDIT NOTE**** It was designed for sniper rifle, yes. But I originally had a major typo in here about the yardage.. Sorry ! Even I make mistakes !

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Last edited by CanyonMan; 02-11-2010 at 09:03..
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Old 02-07-2010, 00:33   #30
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Do you have any links to hard data showing actual penetration tests for the WWB JHP?

If you favor penetration get the Ranger Bonded versions. The 124 gr +P actually penetrates more than the 147 gr in 4 layer denim and heavy cloth (by over 2").

Last edited by cowboy1964; 02-07-2010 at 00:41..
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Old 02-07-2010, 00:35   #31
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Even the 127gr Ranger +P+ will not penetrate as far and deep as the WWB 147gr sub sonic. The latter, is designed to really penetrate. it was was originally desiged to be used in 1,000 yd sniper rifles for the army years ago.
A handgun cartridge for a 1000 yard sniper rifle???
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:27   #32
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A handgun cartridge for a 1000 yard sniper rifle???
Actually it was designed for suppressed submachine guns. Hence the requirement that it be subsonic.

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Old 02-07-2010, 05:29   #33
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Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Well after I posted and re-read my post a couple of times, and thought about it, and rememberd some things, I actually answered my own concerns. It is really quite simple.

The RA9T T series are very quick to expand, "not for me" I need penetration.
After a long talk with a good friend of mine at Winchester ammo plant last weeK about the 147gr WWB JHP, it is a simple thing to understand.

The RA9T T series are not going to penetrate like the WWB JHP because of the serations in the bullet from the pedal on down. The T series is designed to open fast, and the other design is a long standing bullet design for penetration. As My friend at WW and I talked about for almost an hour on the phone. Even the 127gr Ranger +P+ will not penetrate as far and deep as the WWB 147gr sub sonic. The latter, is designed to really penetrate. it was was originally desiged to be used in 1,000 yd sniper rifles for the army years ago.

As ART, my good friend at WW explained. This WWB 147gr JHP is a very well designed bullet for penetration and that is my agenda. Penetration. Not rapid expansion that as he said, really lacks in "Real world' senerios not jello and water jug test, but in real flesh and blood. I really had just went brain numb until, as I said, I re-read my own post, and answered my own question.


Thanks for the replies boys. Appreciate it...




CanyonMan
The RA9T generally penetrates 16 inches or so in clothed gelatin. Do you really need more penetration than that? What are you shooting?

When shooting clothed targets the WWB load rarely expands enough to justify the extra cost. You could just go with FMJ and save money IHMO.

Regards,
Happyguy
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:32   #34
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Do you have any links to hard data showing actual penetration tests for the WWB JHP?

If you favor penetration get the Ranger Bonded versions. The 124 gr +P actually penetrates more than the 147 gr in 4 layer denim and heavy cloth (by over 2").


YES. Until we do are own testing (see below), feel fre to talk to art at WW. He is all the proof I need at the moment. His word and years of experience and "out there doing it" are fine for me, and as I said, we will do this for ourselves on more realistic terms as time allows.... Because water jug test and gelatin test are not a real world senerio. The test that we have not run on "this bullet yet", and will try to do later is the ribcage / hinqurter beef stuffed with organs and a couple of shirts and a coat thrown over it. These have proved to be far closer to the real world than a jello block or water hug with 4 layers of denim which no one in real life wears.

I understand that a bonded bullet out penetrates "usually" a non bonded.
But i prefer a heavy for caliber bullet for more momentem and deeper pen.



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Old 02-07-2010, 08:36   #35
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A handgun cartridge for a 1000 yard sniper rifle???

NO... EDITED***** I really made a major error in the 1,000 yd deal. It WAS designed to be a sniper round, but NOT at that distance. Major typo and eror on my part all. Sorry.

Read this thread that myself and some buds went through a few weeks ago.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173831

It is a long thread. But if you will read it all and take the time to go through it, it will be interesting info for ya on this WWB 147gr'er.



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Old 02-07-2010, 08:43   #36
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The RA9T generally penetrates 16 inches or so in clothed gelatin. Do you really need more penetration than that? What are you shooting?

When shooting clothed targets the WWB load rarely expands enough to justify the extra cost. You could just go with FMJ and save money IHMO.

Regards,
Happyguy

Well, not to be smart. But I am not shooting 4 layers of denim drapped over a gelatin block. These test, although are as we all know 'standard procedure', they are not realistic.


I here your thoughts on the "extra $$$,' but actually I can get the 50 count on these for around 18/25.00 depending on if my particular supplier has them, since they would only be used for SD I do not need a stock pile, but I hear where your comin from.




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Old 02-07-2010, 08:49   #37
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Yep. This is exaxctly what the WWB 147gr JHP was designed for years ago. Sniper work.

CanyonMan
What weapon/cartridge combo did they develop this bullet for?

Regards,
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:53   #38
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I assume that the premium ammo is going to used nickel plated brass, use low flash/recoil powder, and be loaded to higher QC standards but I haven't actually seen any. I also assume that the pic is wrong and the WWB is a JHP and not a soft point

So, anybody have a supplier for the WWB? I definitely want to try some!
Well you have 'assumed correctly on some of this." The WWB 147gr JHP does use a more FS powder than the older loads did for this round. Although they are not nickle plated, that is really not a concern to me. They feed excellent through the G19 of mine which is just a truck gun (my carry is a 45acp when in town). The G19 with this loading (WWB147), is a emergecy/or bobcat/coyote/ or whatever else shooter, or if need be in town carry when in the mood. I switch back and forth so much to under the seat truck guns I can't keep up any way. One day its a 10mm, oneday a 45LC or 44mag, just depends on mood, OR where on the ranch I am going, or if I am driving into the big city. Just another toy. I actually bought this G19 for my wife, and have grown really fond of it myself now, and I don't like 9mm.


Adios




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Old 02-07-2010, 09:04   #39
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What weapon/cartridge combo did they develop this bullet for?

Regards,
Happyguy

See: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173831
Post # 7. Plus as I said, I was also given the low down on this round buy my bud at WW. He confirmed what was said in the above thread and post.

Pretty interesting (to me), He spoke very highly in a long gab session about this plain jane little WWB round. It is not for every one to be sure. But I do require a penetrating fool in whatever I shoot. So for me it is a JHP, but does penetrate like crazy. Since a do not carry a 9mil, and it is a part time truck gun, all is well for me with it out on the ranch for different things, or shoot, (no pun inteded), in town as well....


Got to go boys and take care of some things, and then settle in for the SB game and hope that the COLTS do it right !


Adios




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Old 02-07-2010, 09:15   #40
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Good (accurate at the time) info about this load.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler...hester_9mm.pdf

Edited to add: I can find all kinds of references by reputable sources to this load being developed for our special forces for precision head shots in suppressed MP5's out to 50 yards, but nothing about it being developed as a 1000 yard sniper round.

Regards,
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