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Old 10-24-2009, 13:18   #1
leadslinger13
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trigger slap and sights

went out today to test out the storm lake barrel very nice no issues.

I am battling with the dreaded trigger slap. Most of my rounds at 7 o'clock nice tight group. I never had that in 20 some odd years of shooting my 1911. It sure is hard to look at the target but i am committed to this glock 10mm.
I am thinking that the slim grip would help as it would allow me to have more of my finger pad on the face of the trigger. Next week i will sift my grip to allow that but i don't like the back strap being off center i the web of my hand.

I have been used to the 6 o'clock hold and Novak low mount sights black front and back. i have tried to switch the front of the g 20 to a more traditional sight but just isn't fitting the bill.

I would like to switch to some thing like the truglo tfo front as the light tube would help these old eyes pick up the front sight better. Still would like to find something to give me a reliable 6 o'clock hold.

In the mean time i think I am going to go back tothe glock stock and see how i do.

I would rather spend money on ammo than a ton of different sights so any input would be appreciated.

thanks in advance.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:48   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadslinger13 View Post
i have tried to switch the front of the g 20 to a more traditional sight but just isn't fitting the bill.

I would like to switch to some thing like the truglo tfo front as the light tube would help these old eyes pick up the front sight better. Still would like to find something to give me a reliable 6 o'clock hold.

In the mean time i think I am going to go back tothe glock stock and see how i do.

I would rather spend money on ammo than a ton of different sights so any input would be appreciated.
I tried out the Ameriglo ProGlo front sight (orange+tritium) a while back and absolutely swear by it now... Paired with a plain rear sight it has worked very well for me...

$0.02
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Last edited by s0nspark; 10-25-2009 at 09:38..
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:06   #3
MSgt Dotson
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You need a taller rear sight, or, a shorter front, to intentionally make the pistol shoot 'high', as most Glock sights are designed for/of a height to shoot point of aim at 20-25 yards...

(lighter bullets than standard also impact low relative to point of aim....)
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:08   #4
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Glocks are designed to shoot point of aim, so you'd need a shorter front sight, and/or taller rear to intentionally make it shoot 'high'....
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Old 10-25-2009, 21:13   #5
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thanks for the sight info. I have glock stock adjustable rear sights so i am going to go back to stock fronts. then when i can afford it i am going to go with http://www.goshen-hexsite.com/index2.htm.

Now for the trigger slap problem?

anyone?
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:30   #6
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I've been a handgunner for over 40 years and I still don't know what you mean by "trigger slap". That's a new one on me. Maybe I could help if I knew what you're talking about.

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Old 10-26-2009, 10:13   #7
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I have been told that trigger slap is like jerking the trigger. The pistol correction chart identifies grouping at the seven o'clock position as either trigger slap or squeezing finger upon firing the round.

http://www.is-lan.com/challenge/imag...Correction.pdf



I use a AA 22lr conversion kit and get the same result until i reposition my hand or grip to allow great surface area of the pad of my finger on the trigger.

I am thinking that i might try to get a slime frame in exchange for my existing one. I hope that will allow greater extension of my trigger finger.

i also noticed that the 1911 trigger moves fluidly straight back while there is a slight upward arc to the glock trigger and i think as it brakes i must be jerking the trigger.

hopefully this help to clarify my problem. I am working on dry firing and lots of 22lr to get more trigger time.
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:38   #8
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You are milking (not to mention that the Glock is set for dead on aiming, not 6 o'clock). How to tell? Simple, next time you hit the range, line up and as you pull the trigger, shift your focus to your non-trigger fingers. If you find them squeezing along with your pull, you are milking.

To stop, best move is to keep shooting as before, but again, keep your focus on the squeezing fingers until you understand fully what your milking is. Then just stop it.

After that, when you pull, if you feel the other fingers tightening, stop and start again. Focus on keeping your right hand very relaxed - no squeezing - rely on your left hand for support.

If you are milking - and I bet you are - you will be amazed how easy it is to become aware of and to simply stop. Let us know...
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:45   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evela View Post
You are milking (not to mention that the Glock is set for dead on aiming, not 6 o'clock). How to tell? Simple, next time you hit the range, line up and as you pull the trigger, shift your focus to your non-trigger fingers. If you find them squeezing along with your pull, you are milking.

To stop, best move is to keep shooting as before, but again, keep your focus on the squeezing fingers until you understand fully what your milking is. Then just stop it.

After that, when you pull, if you feel the other fingers tightening, stop and start again. Focus on keeping your right hand very relaxed - no squeezing - rely on your left hand for support.

If you are milking - and I bet you are - you will be amazed how easy it is to become aware of and to simply stop. Let us know...
Wow ... thanks so much for that! I am a relatively new Glock shooter myself and had no idea this was part of my problem :-D
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Old 10-26-2009, 18:02   #10
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s0nspark.....

I think you have a good point. I never though that my support had may be a part of the issue. the 20 years of 1911 shooting never showed this issue. I guess its in part the size of the grip. I noticed that i am unable to get full trigger finger pad flush on trigger. by that i mean that the pad of my finger only reaches the safety and right side of trigger. If i shift my grip off center of the web of my hand then i can establish better trigger finger to trigger contact. I will try your suggestions this weekend at the range. keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 10-26-2009, 19:55   #11
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What you are calling trigger slap (not arguing with you, just never heard the term) and Evela calls milking, I just call pulling the trigger with the whole hand. It generally results in the shots going low and left (for a right hander).

Something I taught to help this was a solidly locked two hand grip. Get as much contact on the gun as you can with both the shooting hand and the support hand. If you can lock down the strong hand grip with the weak hand it tends to keep your grip consistent and still, so only the trigger finger is moving and does so straight back.

Hope this is of some help.

Dave
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:30   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evela View Post
You are milking (not to mention that the Glock is set for dead on aiming, not 6 o'clock). How to tell? Simple, next time you hit the range, line up and as you pull the trigger, shift your focus to your non-trigger fingers. If you find them squeezing along with your pull, you are milking.

To stop, best move is to keep shooting as before, but again, keep your focus on the squeezing fingers until you understand fully what your milking is. Then just stop it.

After that, when you pull, if you feel the other fingers tightening, stop and start again. Focus on keeping your right hand very relaxed - no squeezing - rely on your left hand for support.

If you are milking - and I bet you are - you will be amazed how easy it is to become aware of and to simply stop. Let us know...

Good explanation. I had a similar problem when my Dept. switched from Beretta to HK, and this is what cured me.
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Old 11-02-2009, 14:11   #13
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OK guys haven't had the time to get out to the range this week but maybe in the next couple of days i can walk off 12 yds. and try to get some shooting time here on the property.

I was looking at those truglo tfo sight's to help out these old eye's. from what i have read they may need a little dab of super glue to hold the front light tube in.

My Question is are they set for POA like the stock sights?

I have also been looking at the stock glock night sight? Are they difficult to install?
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Old 11-02-2009, 15:01   #14
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Trigger slap...

I put smooth triggers on my compact and sub compact glocks.

Or you can file the triggers smooth.
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Old 11-14-2009, 21:24   #15
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well things are finally looking up. I am finally beginning to train my brain to the POA sight alignment and my shot groups are improving. I can't believe how my old 6 o'clock hold was ingrained in my muscle memory. I also used to have Novak low mount adjustable target style sights on my 1911 with little light between the front and rear sight so it was super easy and quick for me to fill the black and shoot accurately. I have not only had to learn how to trust my front sight even more but space it appropriately in the rear sight.

I have been using the AA 22lr kit to get this down and save money. today 21 feet 6 mags no more red in the target. way too much fun relearning sight alignment.

I have also got into defensive shooting mind set which has allowed me to relax and get the accuracy i wanted.

The new understanding of my sights has given me the comfort to start working on grip and trigger control that low 7 o'clock issue hasn't reared its ugly head.

I think next week to see if that milking stays away with significant recoil.

Now i just need to pick up a 40 conversion barrel and some of those truglo TFO's to see the front sight better.

I know others have had some issues with the front light tube but there are decent fixes for them and my old eyes need that extra edge.

whew!!! And my girlfriend says i don't share
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:05   #16
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I've got Novak's extreme adjustable mounted to my Glock. No offense to Novaks - they make superb sights, but my AA conversion has Dawson precision adjustables and by comparison, I would have never bothered with the Novak's on the Glock - the Dawsons are absolutely superb. Of course these are adjustable sights I am speaking of. Fixed sights are for defense shooters - I like to get more precision out of a pistol than that. Different rounds have different p.o.i., therefore the sights will need adjustment when you change loads to keep accuracy correct.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:01   #17
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kegs,

very sweet! that is what i have been looking for as i also want more precision but the idea of having a nice light tube up front that doubles as a night sight is hard to resist. It would be nice if truglo came up with and adjustable rear. I think i am going to give up the precision for the added benefit of night sight. I guess i will have to practice more and lower my standards of precision. Its always a trade off of some kind.
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Old 12-12-2009, 16:42   #18
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update!!!

i have been hunting around for sights and my deciding factor was the sale price. I picked up a couple of sets of truglo TFO's for the AA conversion and my 20. easy install on the 20 a little work on the AA conversion (tighter tolerance).

i have been doing tons of work with the AA conversion kit in the mean time working on the milking and possible trigger slap.

I found that the truglo's gave me my old sight picture back. They seem to have the same visual outline as my old novak's and my eyes didn't seem to strain. I was able to relax and get my shots off. super tight group with the 22 and the 20 hit the bullseye 8 yards 2 flyers little high and to left but still in the black, 16 rounds.

I think the front sight picture doesn't obstruct the target as much as the stock sights. What ever the reason It definitely was a good day.


the only down side is that it was a little over cast and i was under a covered area so the sights didn't do much in the way of glowing. the lighting was such that it didn't cause the tubes to show up and not dark enough to allow tritium to show up.

I think that they may need a few small holes drilled in the sides of the front sight to compensate for this in between condition.


Other than that "Huston we have lift off!!!!!" I am a happy puppy.

Now to find a 40 conversion barrel. I have one on back order from Dillon for 108.00 delivered but would like find a deal on a storm lake or LWD.
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Old 01-10-2010, 22:17   #19
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Update!!

Thanks EVELA i was milking. The truglos sight picture perfect for me.

25 yards 2 mags fist size hole standing free hand controlled but relatively rapid fire. I am sure if i took my time watched my breath and grip I would have gotten tighter group.

This 10mm is sooo accurate.

I can see why some guys are looking into the long slide as it has to be even better.

right now I want to take time now and get even more comfortable with this stock setup.

i was able to pick up a used KKM 40 conversion barrel same super accuracy. Thanks EDE couldn't be happier.

I have been working on my grip with some small adjustments now and then and still haven't found my sweet spot but i am sure it is coming.

Now just need more time and money to practice practice practice.

Can't thank everyone enough for their wisdom.
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Old 01-14-2010, 20:29   #20
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Leadslinger,

Quote:
I think next week to see if that milking stays away with significant recoil.
I'm not sure I understand this part but Im gonna comment anyway. If recoil is the issue then you might have something else to analyze. Sometimes muzzle blast and noise can be distracting similar to recoil. Indoor range lane deviders contribute greatly to feeling the pressure and noise of a hot round being discharged. Doubling up a hearing pro might assist in removing some of the perceived recoil. imo.
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