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Old 10-26-2009, 13:43   #1
Generalcarry
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PM9 new vs old recoil spring guide assembly

I just received a new recoil spring and recoil guide assembly spring for my PM9 from Wolff. I have the older PM9 (VA****) and my recoil guide assembly does NOT come apart to replace that spring. I called Kahr and the support guy sounded surprised by this, but claimed "maybe" some were different. The "new" recoil spring from Wolff is about a half inch longer than the original.
Has anyone else run across this situation?
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:13   #2
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My new PM45 recoil spring was longer than the old one but had the same number of coils. (The first one Kahr sent was much longer and had more coils...and didn't fit...but they made it right.) The springs get shorter as they wear - no problem.

The assembly is reportedly screwed together with Red Locktite. People have suggested baking the piece to soften it, etc., but I don't remember anybody posting the results of actually doing this. To my limited knowledge all the spring assemblies screw together. Let us know what you figure out.

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Old 10-27-2009, 12:06   #3
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I'm not using Wolf, but running Kahr's newer spring set up, ended up having to send it back to Kahr to have the lower milled out to fit the larger flange on the recoil spring guide set up, so had them fit the newer barrel while it was there all so
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Old 10-27-2009, 13:48   #4
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I went ahead and ordered a new recoil spring AND the assembly unit from Kahr so in a few days see what they all look like. If its a big difference, I'll post a picture.
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Old 10-28-2009, 22:31   #5
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Red Loctite takes 300 degrees F to break it.

I just heated my wife's toaster oven to about 350 for 20 minutes or so. Then I put the Metal recoil spring assembly in the oven for about 6 or 10 minutes. I watched it through the glass door with a very strong light shining in there. You can see it turn to a white powder. I let it cool and unscrewed it. Cleaned it throughly and degreased it, then reassembled with red Loctite. That was on a PM40, but it should work on a PM9. Now my old MK9 is a different horse altogether.

The new recoil springs will shorten dramatically with firing just a few magazines of ammo. Don't worry about it.
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:04   #6
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I received the recoil guide assembly and the flat circular end of the assembly that fits against the barrel is almost twice the size as my original! What the heck is going on???
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Old 11-09-2009, 23:56   #7
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Pictures anyone?? I have 3 spring assemblies from Karh for my PM9 and don't know which one to use or how long to use it. New? Old??
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:11   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Generalcarry View Post
I went ahead and ordered a new recoil spring AND the assembly unit from Kahr so in a few days see what they all look like. If its a big difference, I'll post a picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Generalcarry View Post
I received the recoil guide assembly and the flat circular end of the assembly that fits against the barrel is almost twice the size as my original! What the heck is going on???

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Old 11-10-2009, 08:32   #9
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In another application, rather than putting the item in an oven, I used a soldering iron (one of those new fangled battery operated ones that don't turn on unless they touch metal) and touched it to the screws I was trying to remove for about 15 secs. Worked like a charm.
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Old 11-12-2009, 19:47   #10
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Left is the new style and on the right, the old style.

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Old 11-13-2009, 16:13   #11
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Will that larger disk work okay?

I have an older PM9 "VA" series and have been thinking it's getting about time to replace the recoil springs.
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Old 11-13-2009, 16:49   #12
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Let me sort this out.
I ordered the recoil springs from Wolff assuming there was a screw (visible) to R&R the springs. That's when I discovered the recoil springs were larger than the old springs. Also, I still can't see this screw to take the assembly apart!

When I ordered from Kahr, I thought the guide assembly/recoil spring would be the same size as the "older" original parts. As you can see, that's not the case.

I called Kahr Mon. or Tues. and customer service said they would send me another assembly like my old one. I assumed, again, that they would just grind the new part until the circumference was the same as the old original. I have yet to receive the new part.

In any case, how the hell does the assembly come apart?
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Old 11-13-2009, 19:57   #13
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I don't believe the guide rod assembly was intended to be taken apart. If I had to guess, I'd say it was red loctited and can be disassembled with heat and pliers.....that seems to be Wolff's notion. Personally, I don't see the point. The guide rod assembly is something like 14 or 15 bucks if I remember correctly and won't need changing as often, if ever, as the recoil spring anyway.

I have a spare guide assembly and recoil spring for my PM9 on hand but at around 2500 rounds or so have yet to change either. The lengths of my new spare and in service recoil springs are comparable to what you show in your pics....as expected.

I have an IAxxxx s/n pistol so both the supplied and replacement guide rods are the later style. I don't know for sure if there was a change in the barrel lug cut that would affect functionality in your case, but probably so. The cut on mine is different than yours. Also, fwiw, remember that Kahr's OEM spring supplier is Wolff.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by ltxi; 11-13-2009 at 20:08..
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:53   #14
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I dumped the captured assemblies on my Glocks as soon as I got them and run Wolff on all the others, when I order, I order quite a few.
Is there any chance I could see a picture of the "newer cut" on the barrel lug?
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Old 11-15-2009, 16:21   #15
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I hear you on the Glocks. I still use the stock captive assembly on my G27 as it seems to work well, but my G23 got a T.H.E. guide rod and uses ISMI recoil springs.

Do not have a camera available at the moment. Could maybe provide pics in a couple of days, but for the moment......looking again, it's not just the cut, my barrel lug is different. The lower front part of the lug, the section that provides the bearing surface for the guide rod, extends about another 50% to the right, looking from the muzzle. The cut extends straight, all the way across instead of curving up the way yours does. New style lug/guide rod interface does appear to be an improvement. I seriously doubt the new and old style are interchangeable.

Sorry for the lack of immediate pics.

Last edited by ltxi; 11-15-2009 at 16:27..
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:45   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltxi View Post
I hear you on the Glocks. I still use the stock captive assembly on my G27 as it seems to work well, but my G23 got a T.H.E. guide rod and uses ISMI recoil springs.

Do not have a camera available at the moment. Could maybe provide pics in a couple of days, but for the moment......looking again, it's not just the cut, my barrel lug is different. The lower front part of the lug, the section that provides the bearing surface for the guide rod, extends about another 50% to the right, looking from the muzzle. The cut extends straight, all the way across instead of curving up the way yours does. New style lug/guide rod interface does appear to be an improvement. I seriously doubt the new and old style are interchangeable.

Sorry for the lack of immediate pics.


I'd appreciate the the picture. The guide assembly came from Kahr yesterday and it the same new style (on the left of the photograph), the one with the "larger head. I wonder if I'm going to have to get a new barrel??????
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Old 11-17-2009, 09:16   #17
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Here a pix of the barrel for a IBxxxx PM9 - dob July 2009

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Last edited by wagonm; 11-24-2009 at 15:18..
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Old 11-24-2009, 14:10   #18
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Have you been able to resolve the problem of the new vs. the old style spring assemblies?


I'm guessing the new (large head) assembly will not work in place of the old style.
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Old 11-24-2009, 19:48   #19
ltxi
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Here a pix of the barrel for a IBxxxx PM9 - dob July 2009
That's interesting.....my IAxxxx barrel has a straight cut all the way across. I assume that curved cut bit is to help locate the guide rod head more positively, although I've never had a problem.

No, I'm pretty sure the new style guide rod assembly won't work with the older barrel's lug......unless the guide rod head is ground down.
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Old 11-25-2009, 00:25   #20
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"Interesting"? Indeed.

The earlier pix was a replacment barrel I received in early Nov .. long story short and fast forward to last week, I received another one and it has a straight line cut. (see pix below).

Anyway, not to hijack this thread, the pix is just to demo the different between older barrel and the newer barrel.

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Quote:
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That's interesting.....my IAxxxx barrel has a straight cut all the way across. I assume that curved cut bit is to help locate the guide rod head more positively, although I've never had a problem.

No, I'm pretty sure the new style guide rod assembly won't work with the older barrel's lug......unless the guide rod head is ground down.
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