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Old 02-03-2010, 18:18   #51
dreis454
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ya know CanyonMan.....when ever I read any of your posts (which I really enjoy & heed your knowledge) I can't help hearing the actor 'Sam Elliot' reading it to me.
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Old 02-03-2010, 19:41   #52
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Last edited by CanyonMan; 05-10-2010 at 08:24.. Reason: spelling and to remove non esentials
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Old 02-14-2010, 20:58   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
I already wrote a post here on this thread, to another guy explaining "why i use the 230gr ball". I'll let ya read that one.

I use CCI Brass 230gr ball, or WWB 230gr ball. I do not use ball because HP's won't feed. I have never owned a gun, that a recall, that would not rap through GD's, GS's XTP's you name it. Never a problem with the fte. Using HST, GD, whatever, should not have any bearing on FTE. You need to take a look at the gun, i.e. the extractor and the ejector etc, etc.. IMO


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The only problem with your statements is this.....that ball ammo has a real good possibility of doing exactly what you say and then going through the body and into someone else (innocent bystander) not to mention 1 or 2 walls and into someone unintended. You can carry what you like but if you shoot the wrong person, you'll have more legal problems on your hands. Good luck
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:19   #54
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Originally Posted by swannick View Post
The only problem with your statements is this.....that ball ammo has a real good possibility of doing exactly what you say and then going through the body and into someone else (innocent bystander) not to mention 1 or 2 walls and into someone unintended. You can carry what you like but if you shoot the wrong person, you'll have more legal problems on your hands. Good luck

Well, I tell ya. If you shoot the 'wrong person,' as you say, with any ammo your in trouble. The over penetration from a 45acp 230gr ball round is blown so far out of proportion from internet ramblings it is incredible to say the least. Folks tend to pass along what they heard some where else, or could be, might, maybe, ought to's.

Man you have placed in your mind this 875 fps round like it was on steroids !

Going through the BG then some one else, then passing through a wall or two. You need to rethink this. It is NOT realistic.

It is rare for 45acp to pass through a COM shot, if it does, it is equally as rare for it to put down some one else if it struck them, much less go on through a wall or two.

It will however remain unplugged as the conventional JHP does NOT, and will not loose penetration if having to go through an arm before it reaches the torso, and still get to the vitals. It will, have the needed penetration to be used with confidence on a quartering shot as well, or to break a hip, a leg. It will smash and plow through. If I am defending my life, I want to make all the trouble for the BG as possible, and smah and break up all I can. The worry of OP with the 45acp 230gr ball at 850/875/ fps, is not a concern to me, because I know it is very rare and is NOT the threat that internet ballistic jockeys have made it out to be.



Fast opening shallow penetrating rounds abound on the market today, and it seems that most everyone is jumping on them by the wagon loads, because they saw them open up like a parachute in a block of gelatin, or a water jug... This thinking and testing is absolutely dangerous to judge a SD round by. Fun to shoot, but completely lacks one important ingredient.. Reality.

Because a bullet "looks cool," or opens like a Saturday morning flap jack in a pan, after being shot into water or jello means nothing, except that it will open up picture perfect in a water jug and jello. Nothing more.

I will not sacrifice penetration for some rapid expanding new bullet on the market that will not do in a human what the marketing industry shows the public it will do in a gelatin block or water jug... This makes no sense at all to me.

The flip side of this for me in closing here is this. Although I am not afraid to use a FMJ in a 9mm or a 357sig, or a 40s&w, or a 10mm, I would not use them in town if I had a choice, because of the obvious. Here we have a small diameter bullet moving a 1050 to 1300 + fps (through out these calibers), and in this case you can now be concerned about some OP. But in the 45acp 230 ball at just over 800fps. This has not been an issue in my experience, nor a concern for me, (again, let the reader understand) nor should it be for those who want to use this load in the 45acp.


Good shooting
stay safe



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Last edited by CanyonMan; 05-10-2010 at 08:26..
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Old 02-16-2010, 22:38   #55
den888
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For .45 ACP, I use 230 gr FMJ WWB or Federal, it has been military proven as a good SD round.
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Old 02-16-2010, 23:06   #56
N/Apower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Well, I tell ya. If you shoot the 'wrong person,' as you say, with any ammo your in trouble. The over penetration from a 45acp 230gr ball round is blown so far out of proportion from internet ramblings it is incredible to say the least. Folks tend to pass along what they heard some where else, or could be, might, maybe, ought to's.

Man you have placed in your mind this 875 fps round like it was on steroids !

Going through the BG then some one else, then passing through a wall or two. You need to rethink this. It is NOT realistic.

It is rare for 45acp to pass through a COM shot, if it does, it is equally as rare for it to put down some one else if it struck them, much less go on through a wall or two.

It will however remain unplugged as the conventional JHP does NOT, and will not loose penetration if having to go through an arm before it reaches the torso, and still get to the vitals. It will, have the needed penetration to be used with confidence on a quartering shot as well, or to break a hip, a leg. It will smash and plow through. If I am defending my life, I want to make all the trouble for the BG as possible, and smah and break up all I can. The worry of OP with the 45acp 230gr ball at 850/875/ fps, is not a concern to me, because I know it is very rare and is NOT the threat that internet ballistic jockeys have made it out to be.


I'll stick with what I KNOW works, (let the reader understand), and gets where it needs to go. Next to this, a 230gr XTP is 2nd on the list for me. For it too, is a penetrating fool.

Fast opening shallow penetrating rounds abound on the market today, and it seems that most everyone is jumping on them by the wagon loads, because they saw them open up like a parachute in a block of gelatin, or a water jug... This thinking and testing is absolutely dangerous to judge a SD round by. Fun to shoot, but completely lacks one important ingredient.. Reality.

Because a bullet "looks cool," or opens like a Saturday morning flap jack in a pan, after being shot into water or jello means nothing, except that it will open up picture perfect in a water jug and jello. Nothing more.

I will not sacrifice penetration for some rapid expanding new bullet on the market that will not do in a human what the marketing industry shows the public it will do in a gelatin block or water jug... This makes no sense at all to me.

The flip side of this for me in closing here is this. Although I am not afraid to use a FMJ in a 9mm or a 357sig, or a 40s&w, or a 10mm, I would not use them in town if I had a choice, because of the obvious. Here we have a small diameter bullet moving a 1050 to 1300 + fps (through out these calibers), and in this case you can now be concerned about some OP. But in the 45acp 230 ball at just over 800fps. This has not been an issue in my experience, nor a concern for me, (again, let the reader understand) nor should it be for those who want to use this load in the 45acp.


Good shooting
stay safe



CanyonMan
The .45 and 9mm penetrate similarly in gelatin. NYPD suffered quite a few shoot-throughs. Several deaths were caused. This was lessened when they switched the the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I have read at least one reliable story where a .45ACP FMJ round used in Iraq by a special unit of some sort penetrated the assailant during a house-clearing and continued to impact and break the leg of another team-member.

Overpenetration with FMJ ammunition is indeed "real".
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:40   #57
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Originally Posted by N/Apower View Post
The .45 and 9mm penetrate similarly in gelatin. NYPD suffered quite a few shoot-throughs. Several deaths were caused. This was lessened when they switched the the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I have read at least one reliable story where a .45ACP FMJ round used in Iraq by a special unit of some sort penetrated the assailant during a house-clearing and continued to impact and break the leg of another team-member.

Overpenetration with FMJ ammunition is indeed "real".

So is OP real with JHP's if hit in the guts.


Lets understand something though amigo. Most all of these OP stories are people who were shot in the bowles (aka guts). This can lead to possible OP on any weapon with any type bullet. JHP or FMJ.

Most of the rest of these OP stories are from the internet guru's.

Can OP's happen yes. I know that. But I would not use FMJ in a 9mil. (given a choice in town), I do use them however in the 45acp. There IS a difference here between the two calibers. Small Fast and zippy, vs. slow and lumbering.

NYPD had the shoot through's with FMJ 9mils. Not with the 45acp.


Good shooting



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