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Old 11-02-2009, 09:28   #41
CanyonMan
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Originally Posted by Jayzod View Post
Thank you Sir for all the information you have provided I do appreciate it.

Okay I took the gun (G30 SF) apart last night and compared it to my flawless trusty G21 SF. Did my best to measure what I could.

The only difference I could see was in three places (other than the obvious size difference between the 2 guns and the recoil springs) first being the "ejector" it is sitting about 1.5mm more "forward" on the G30 than the G21 and had a shinny buffing to the top side of it but no chips, bends or other signs or damage.

The second area of difference was the G30 shows the notorious gouge on the top flat of the trigger bar. But from what I understand this causes failure to return to battery problems of which at this point I don't seem to have.

Lastly the final area of difference was the barrel. The first thing I noticed was the G30's barrel is a dull dark gray color and not the nice deep black of the G21's. Then I noticed that on the G30's barrel the spot where the recoil spring sits is much less pronounced and so to are all the groves where the barrel rides when it's ejecting the rounds.

Anyway I plan to get some more range time in soon and try a new HP out I'm thinking Remington GS.

Thanks to everyone who as tried to help!



Well, I'm glad you got to look a few things over at least. I got just a second or two here right quick.. It's great that you are going to try the GS and see how they work. It would not matter to me if the GS worked or not though. They should all work, and work well. It is real hard (as you know) without seeing the gun and shoting it, to diagnose the situation "further than" what i have already suggested to you. I would measure those empty cases, the range ammo, and the JHP stuff, and do it with the fired, and the unfired. Measure your barrel chamber area as well.

I just went and dug some suff out of the safe. I took 'two" of my G30's popped the barrels out, and i put the calipers dead center of the chamber and half way in. They both, (at least where I measured them), were 0582


The grooves in the seat where the rear end of the recoil spring/rod rides is thinner than your G21, because look at the difference in the back, (or the nail head), of the rods on each. On the G21 you have the thick black plastic rod (nail head), and it needs a deeper cup to sit in. On the G30the rear (or nail head), end of the rod is as thin as paper almost... This is why the 'cup difference' in the two barrels. Lay that to rest.


I would call Dan at Lone Wolf Distdributors, and see what the spec are for his barrels. Compare my "2" to his, and yours, and see where you land, "before" you go to the range..... I have a new G20 that has the 'gray finish barrel' like yours. It is super sloppy 'compared to' my other G20 barrels, and is not as good a shooter as the other Glock 10mm's I own.

Please take no offence. I know you been shooting a long time, and I am sure you are very capable. But, let a friend or someone else shot that thing with the JHP's just to rule that out. Man, things happen to the best of shooters.....

Without seeing the gun and ammo, we need to get some measurments on those fired and unfired cases, and the mesurment of the chamber where i measured my two, and talk with Dan at LW, and see what his specs to, if all seems normal there.... I would let a friend that IYO shoots very well, take a crack at it, and not be embarrassed about that . If it works great for him, you got your answer the quick and easy way...

If it does the same thing for him as it does for you, Then I would call Glock, ask for Fred, and tell him the whole story and go from there.... This is if your ball ammo cases measure the same as your JHP cases, fired/unfired, (at least within true reason), and your barrel chamber specs seem to match mine and (i would call Dan/his), and if a friend has had the same problem as well. If all this has been done and it still don't work, call glock. There may be something in that chamber spec that is not being caught by your measurments, "even if" they seem to line up with mine and Dan's... I've seen stranger things happen man!

This is the best i can suggest to ya. But i would at least try all this "before i called glock." You'll at least have done your best in it ALL, to have weeded out the problem/s, before you call them and here them say... "Send it in." Because you won't see it more than likely for 4/6 weeks or so.

I stand to be corrected. I've been corrected many times before. It does sound like a out of spec chamber, BUT, it also does sound like ammo, and does sound like ( I'm sorry) shooter related issues. And shooter related would truly be my last guess, but try and see.

So ya just don't feel bad here. My brother bought two Kimber 1911's 45acp A Gov model 5" barrel, and a compact, 3" barrel about the size of the G30 (the gun is), well he shot great with the 5" and had jams an fits withe 3" and is a very good shooter, and been doing it a loooong time. I told him it was him, he did not like that, and kept buying ammo, and kept having problems. He sent it to Kimber. They could not find a thing wrong with it and sent it back. I worked with him "over the phone about his grip." Humiliated, and PO'd at me, he did what i said, and it never happened again. Shoots great, and he is happy and could not belive he was tweaking it just a tad different that the "full size gun."

Again, it could be ANY one of the things we named above, and probably IS NOT YOU. But, if you go through all these steps, all of them, and it still won't work, at least you'll know it needs to go back, and you got something screwy goin on (probably in the chamber).

Well, Amigo. Good luck, keep us in the loop.
Maybe someone else on here has more wisdom than me on this, and could better help ya. This is just how I would attack the situation if it were me... hang in there.


CanyonMan
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:02   #42
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For range shooting, whatever 230gr ball I can get economically. For daily carry, I only ever run Winchester Ranger RA45T 230gr +P loads
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Old 01-16-2010, 16:04   #43
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Originally Posted by CanyonMan View Post
Well the only answer i got for ya is this. 230gr ball has worked very well through WW1, WW2, Korea, Nam, and even during the days of all the "gangster wars" here in the states. Next, I use it because it does not clog with clothes and bone or anything, and it penetrates like crazy after busting bones and it still gets where it needs to go, namely, the vitals.

Next, I use it because 'normally' people have up their hands, arms, or are at a strange angle when being shot, and the 230gr ball will go through an arm (lets say), and still have plenty of punch left to get to the body, and a 'better chance' again, to reach the vitals. Next, because it has a round nose that truly plows through and does bust bone, and is not slowed down by rapid expansion, or a clogged nose and thus still hindering it from getting maximum penetration..

Next, because i have never found a hollow point i trust out of the 45acp (especially shorter barrels), to do what I just explained, except, I do like 230gr GD, and 230gr GS, and 230gr XTP. I would favor the XTP, first then the GS, because it acts more like ball in humans, and does not open up as much. You will also find if you run a test with a hind quarter from a steer, and cover it with some guts, assorted organs, and tape some leather jacket on it, and get back a few steps and shoot with your favorite hollow point, and then with a 230gr FMJ (I use the CCI Brass brand, good old WWB will work), you will find your HP clogged to heck, and therfore lost penetration, You will find the ball went through and kicked butt and busted bones went through all the media, and did some nasty damage.

Next, short tubes like the G30 and Colt Defender etc. barely have 2" on barrel to actually travel through, and there is just not enough there for a HP to really do what we takled about above, and get to the vitals, much less have the 'classic mushroom jello block look" to it. That is not real world. The 5" does ad a little flavor, but not that much either in this caliber we are talking about.

Now begining to close here: This generally where I start losing folks if they have stuck it out this far..... But, I do not use ball in 9mm, 40 s&w, or 10mm
for the obvious reason that they are not heavy/big/slow, as compared to the 45acp. The latter(45acp) is what I carry 98/99% of the time. if not I'd say 1% 10mm, 200gr XTP, 1% 357mag revolver 124gr JHP.

It is fun to shoot water jugs, and wet packs, and all kinds of propane tanks, and all that stuff that we ALL like to do, and it gives us at least some small idea of things, but it is a small idea. Things do not work the same way, where you have clothes, strange angles, an arm up in the way, flesh, muscle, grissle, bone, solid and hollow organs to go through, and get to some vital spot like the heart, or CNS etc.



Next. Not to be smart. I use them cause I am a 58 year old dude set in my ways, and that 230gr ball is what i like, and 'know' it works for me.


There ya go. Thats it.
HTH's


EDIT NOTE***** I forgot to add in my list above for the 45acp I do like the 230gr XTP as well. It too, plows through real well...

Good shooting !


CanyonMan
In the some 28yrs of police work i retired from i have seen a lot of bad guys take dirt flops from getting shot with hard ball 45 auto bullets, so i must agre with you, the internal damage from these slow moving bullets is devestating as noticed in the autopsy room, with far less damage and less penn. from 45 JHP,but just as dead, the hard ball ammo in 45 seems to work far better then hard ball in any other caliber i have observed.........as he states it is a bone breaking round and one cannot argue with that....Just my opinion...I dont hesitate to carry hard ball ammo in my Kimber 1911s, as to brand i pay little attention..
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Old 01-16-2010, 18:22   #44
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In the some 28yrs of police work i retired from i have seen a lot of bad guys take dirt flops from getting shot with hard ball 45 auto bullets, so i must agre with you, the internal damage from these slow moving bullets is devestating as noticed in the autopsy room, with far less damage and less penn. from 45 JHP,but just as dead, the hard ball ammo in 45 seems to work far better then hard ball in any other caliber i have observed.........as he states it is a bone breaking round and one cannot argue with that....Just my opinion...I dont hesitate to carry hard ball ammo in my Kimber 1911s, as to brand i pay little attention..


Yep, your right about brand. it really does not matter to much in my experience with them as to wether they are WWB or CCI Brass 230gr. I do want to try and find some 230gr RNFP's though. I truly like the idea of the meplat or flatter nose profile. But until then the regular ball will, and has been, just fine...


Good shooting
Stay safe



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Old 02-02-2010, 18:00   #45
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G36 - Gold Dot, Hornady XTP, Winchester PDX Bonded, Rem. Golden Saber - all JHP's, no failures. Good Luck
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:03   #46
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Well the only answer i got for ya is this. 230gr ball has worked very well through WW1, WW2, Korea, Nam, and even during the days of all the "gangster wars" here in the states. Next, I use it because it does not clog with clothes and bone or anything, and it penetrates like crazy after busting bones and it still gets where it needs to go, namely, the vitals.

Next, I use it because 'normally' people have up their hands, arms, or are at a strange angle when being shot, and the 230gr ball will go through an arm (lets say), and still have plenty of punch left to get to the body, and a 'better chance' again, to reach the vitals. Next, because it has a round nose that truly plows through and does bust bone, and is not slowed down by rapid expansion, or a clogged nose and thus still hindering it from getting maximum penetration..

Next, because i have never found a hollow point i trust out of the 45acp (especially shorter barrels), to do what I just explained, except, I do like 230gr GD, and 230gr GS, and 230gr XTP. I would favor the XTP, first then the GS, because it acts more like ball in humans, and does not open up as much. You will also find if you run a test with a hind quarter from a steer, and cover it with some guts, assorted organs, and tape some leather jacket on it, and get back a few steps and shoot with your favorite hollow point, and then with a 230gr FMJ (I use the CCI Brass brand, good old WWB will work), you will find your HP clogged to heck, and therfore lost penetration, You will find the ball went through and kicked butt and busted bones went through all the media, and did some nasty damage.

Next, short tubes like the G30 and Colt Defender etc. barely have 2" on barrel to actually travel through, and there is just not enough there for a HP to really do what we takled about above, and get to the vitals, much less have the 'classic mushroom jello block look" to it. That is not real world. The 5" does ad a little flavor, but not that much either in this caliber we are talking about.

Now begining to close here: This generally where I start losing folks if they have stuck it out this far..... But, I do not use ball in 9mm, 40 s&w, or 10mm
for the obvious reason that they are not heavy/big/slow, as compared to the 45acp. The latter(45acp) is what I carry 98/99% of the time. if not I'd say 1% 10mm, 200gr XTP, 1% 357mag revolver 124gr JHP.

It is fun to shoot water jugs, and wet packs, and all kinds of propane tanks, and all that stuff that we ALL like to do, and it gives us at least some small idea of things, but it is a small idea. Things do not work the same way, where you have clothes, strange angles, an arm up in the way, flesh, muscle, grissle, bone, solid and hollow organs to go through, and get to some vital spot like the heart, or CNS etc.



Next. Not to be smart. I use them cause I am a 58 year old dude set in my ways, and that 230gr ball is what i like, and 'know' it works for me.


There ya go. Thats it.
HTH's


EDIT NOTE***** I forgot to add in my list above for the 45acp I do like the 230gr XTP as well. It too, plows through real well...

Good shooting !


CanyonMan

Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either. I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:09   #47
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Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either. I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.


Seems like there are far more guys out there using ball ammo in there 45's than I thought. It is what I have run for ever it seems and has served me well. Like you, I have no problems sleeping at night with it there, or going to town with it either...


Stay safe
Good shooting



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Old 02-03-2010, 09:51   #48
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Originally Posted by RedsoxFan4Lyfe View Post
Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either. I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.
Well said. It is very frustrating and expensive to try and find the latest magic bullet to test! I just keep going back to 230ball because I know I can trust it for consistent reliability and adequate performance. I have an FNP45 pistol that is my favorite but it has choked on some hp and +P ammo. I go back to FedAE 230ball and it works fine. Since I like this pistol soo much, I'm about ready to dump all my fancy hollowpoints and standardize on ball. This should eliminate all my stress and anxiety trying to get the latest greatest magic bullet to work , no less how much money it has lifted from my wallet! We have trusted 230Ball with our soldiers lives for many years and it wasn't replaced by the 9mm for lack of performance. Anybody else feel this way?
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Old 02-03-2010, 18:51   #49
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[QUOTE=Iceman cHucK;14676620]Well said. It is very frustrating and expensive to try and find the latest magic bullet to test! I just keep going back to 230ball because I know I can trust it for consistent reliability and adequate performance. I have an FNP45 pistol that is my favorite but it has choked on some hp and +P ammo. I go back to FedAE 230ball and it works fine. Since I like this pistol soo much, I'm about ready to dump all my fancy hollowpoints and standardize on ball. This should eliminate all my stress and anxiety trying to get the latest greatest magic bullet to work , no less how much money it has lifted from my wallet! We have trusted 230Ball with our soldiers lives for many years and it wasn't replaced by the 9mm for lack of performance. Anybody else feel this way?[/QUOTE]



Now watch out Amigo. Talk like this can brand you as a traitor !
Yes some one else agrees with you. I for one FWIW to ya, and I am surprised to see so many others on this thread and on some of ther threads on the 1911 club as well, saying the same thing. Those that have not used it, or needed to, ( thank goodness), I am very happy for them, and hope they never do need to use their weapon of choice. But the 230gr, ball ammo in the 45acp, (is NO magic bullet for big studs that think their cool), "as those who "oppose" all this 230gr 45acp ball ammo talk usually reply... It is simply a round that as a good deal of us on this thread have said, and 'some' of us "know," it has worked, and does work still, very well.

I am not selling it, so matters not to me what folks use. Just know what experience and years and old age has shown me.

Yep, I "feel this way." As 'you' ask.



Stay safe Hombre
"buenas noches nos de' Dios"



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Old 02-03-2010, 19:17   #50
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Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either.
I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.



Hey guy. Let me just squeeze this in ok. I would not own a gun that won't digest "everything or anything" I shove in it. That is NOT the reason I use 230gr ball in my 45's. I use them because of all the things I have said in the above post......


What I highlighted in blue above... Amen ! I agree with you, and been there and done that. They work. You had a well worded post.


Stay safe amigo
Good shooting.



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Old 02-03-2010, 19:18   #51
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ya know CanyonMan.....when ever I read any of your posts (which I really enjoy & heed your knowledge) I can't help hearing the actor 'Sam Elliot' reading it to me.
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Old 02-03-2010, 20:41   #52
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Old 02-14-2010, 21:58   #53
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I already wrote a post here on this thread, to another guy explaining "why i use the 230gr ball". I'll let ya read that one.

I use CCI Brass 230gr ball, or WWB 230gr ball. I do not use ball because HP's won't feed. I have never owned a gun, that a recall, that would not rap through GD's, GS's XTP's you name it. Never a problem with the fte. Using HST, GD, whatever, should not have any bearing on FTE. You need to take a look at the gun, i.e. the extractor and the ejector etc, etc.. IMO


Good shooting
\




CanyonMan

The only problem with your statements is this.....that ball ammo has a real good possibility of doing exactly what you say and then going through the body and into someone else (innocent bystander) not to mention 1 or 2 walls and into someone unintended. You can carry what you like but if you shoot the wrong person, you'll have more legal problems on your hands. Good luck
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:19   #54
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The only problem with your statements is this.....that ball ammo has a real good possibility of doing exactly what you say and then going through the body and into someone else (innocent bystander) not to mention 1 or 2 walls and into someone unintended. You can carry what you like but if you shoot the wrong person, you'll have more legal problems on your hands. Good luck

Well, I tell ya. If you shoot the 'wrong person,' as you say, with any ammo your in trouble. The over penetration from a 45acp 230gr ball round is blown so far out of proportion from internet ramblings it is incredible to say the least. Folks tend to pass along what they heard some where else, or could be, might, maybe, ought to's.

Man you have placed in your mind this 875 fps round like it was on steroids !

Going through the BG then some one else, then passing through a wall or two. You need to rethink this. It is NOT realistic.

It is rare for 45acp to pass through a COM shot, if it does, it is equally as rare for it to put down some one else if it struck them, much less go on through a wall or two.

It will however remain unplugged as the conventional JHP does NOT, and will not loose penetration if having to go through an arm before it reaches the torso, and still get to the vitals. It will, have the needed penetration to be used with confidence on a quartering shot as well, or to break a hip, a leg. It will smash and plow through. If I am defending my life, I want to make all the trouble for the BG as possible, and smah and break up all I can. The worry of OP with the 45acp 230gr ball at 850/875/ fps, is not a concern to me, because I know it is very rare and is NOT the threat that internet ballistic jockeys have made it out to be.



Fast opening shallow penetrating rounds abound on the market today, and it seems that most everyone is jumping on them by the wagon loads, because they saw them open up like a parachute in a block of gelatin, or a water jug... This thinking and testing is absolutely dangerous to judge a SD round by. Fun to shoot, but completely lacks one important ingredient.. Reality.

Because a bullet "looks cool," or opens like a Saturday morning flap jack in a pan, after being shot into water or jello means nothing, except that it will open up picture perfect in a water jug and jello. Nothing more.

I will not sacrifice penetration for some rapid expanding new bullet on the market that will not do in a human what the marketing industry shows the public it will do in a gelatin block or water jug... This makes no sense at all to me.

The flip side of this for me in closing here is this. Although I am not afraid to use a FMJ in a 9mm or a 357sig, or a 40s&w, or a 10mm, I would not use them in town if I had a choice, because of the obvious. Here we have a small diameter bullet moving a 1050 to 1300 + fps (through out these calibers), and in this case you can now be concerned about some OP. But in the 45acp 230 ball at just over 800fps. This has not been an issue in my experience, nor a concern for me, (again, let the reader understand) nor should it be for those who want to use this load in the 45acp.


Good shooting
stay safe



CanyonMan
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Old 02-16-2010, 23:38   #55
den888
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For .45 ACP, I use 230 gr FMJ WWB or Federal, it has been military proven as a good SD round.
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Old 02-17-2010, 00:06   #56
N/Apower
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Well, I tell ya. If you shoot the 'wrong person,' as you say, with any ammo your in trouble. The over penetration from a 45acp 230gr ball round is blown so far out of proportion from internet ramblings it is incredible to say the least. Folks tend to pass along what they heard some where else, or could be, might, maybe, ought to's.

Man you have placed in your mind this 875 fps round like it was on steroids !

Going through the BG then some one else, then passing through a wall or two. You need to rethink this. It is NOT realistic.

It is rare for 45acp to pass through a COM shot, if it does, it is equally as rare for it to put down some one else if it struck them, much less go on through a wall or two.

It will however remain unplugged as the conventional JHP does NOT, and will not loose penetration if having to go through an arm before it reaches the torso, and still get to the vitals. It will, have the needed penetration to be used with confidence on a quartering shot as well, or to break a hip, a leg. It will smash and plow through. If I am defending my life, I want to make all the trouble for the BG as possible, and smah and break up all I can. The worry of OP with the 45acp 230gr ball at 850/875/ fps, is not a concern to me, because I know it is very rare and is NOT the threat that internet ballistic jockeys have made it out to be.


I'll stick with what I KNOW works, (let the reader understand), and gets where it needs to go. Next to this, a 230gr XTP is 2nd on the list for me. For it too, is a penetrating fool.

Fast opening shallow penetrating rounds abound on the market today, and it seems that most everyone is jumping on them by the wagon loads, because they saw them open up like a parachute in a block of gelatin, or a water jug... This thinking and testing is absolutely dangerous to judge a SD round by. Fun to shoot, but completely lacks one important ingredient.. Reality.

Because a bullet "looks cool," or opens like a Saturday morning flap jack in a pan, after being shot into water or jello means nothing, except that it will open up picture perfect in a water jug and jello. Nothing more.

I will not sacrifice penetration for some rapid expanding new bullet on the market that will not do in a human what the marketing industry shows the public it will do in a gelatin block or water jug... This makes no sense at all to me.

The flip side of this for me in closing here is this. Although I am not afraid to use a FMJ in a 9mm or a 357sig, or a 40s&w, or a 10mm, I would not use them in town if I had a choice, because of the obvious. Here we have a small diameter bullet moving a 1050 to 1300 + fps (through out these calibers), and in this case you can now be concerned about some OP. But in the 45acp 230 ball at just over 800fps. This has not been an issue in my experience, nor a concern for me, (again, let the reader understand) nor should it be for those who want to use this load in the 45acp.


Good shooting
stay safe



CanyonMan
The .45 and 9mm penetrate similarly in gelatin. NYPD suffered quite a few shoot-throughs. Several deaths were caused. This was lessened when they switched the the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I have read at least one reliable story where a .45ACP FMJ round used in Iraq by a special unit of some sort penetrated the assailant during a house-clearing and continued to impact and break the leg of another team-member.

Overpenetration with FMJ ammunition is indeed "real".
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:40   #57
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Originally Posted by N/Apower View Post
The .45 and 9mm penetrate similarly in gelatin. NYPD suffered quite a few shoot-throughs. Several deaths were caused. This was lessened when they switched the the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I have read at least one reliable story where a .45ACP FMJ round used in Iraq by a special unit of some sort penetrated the assailant during a house-clearing and continued to impact and break the leg of another team-member.

Overpenetration with FMJ ammunition is indeed "real".

So is OP real with JHP's if hit in the guts.


Lets understand something though amigo. Most all of these OP stories are people who were shot in the bowles (aka guts). This can lead to possible OP on any weapon with any type bullet. JHP or FMJ.

Most of the rest of these OP stories are from the internet guru's.

Can OP's happen yes. I know that. But I would not use FMJ in a 9mil. (given a choice in town), I do use them however in the 45acp. There IS a difference here between the two calibers. Small Fast and zippy, vs. slow and lumbering.

NYPD had the shoot through's with FMJ 9mils. Not with the 45acp.


Good shooting



CanyonMan
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