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Old 11-09-2009, 18:57   #1
Ben Stoeger
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Dry Fire Training

Hey guys…

With the help of quite a few shooter type folk we put together a dry fire practice program for USPSA. This would also work just fine for IDPA shooters. It is designed to be simple, and to not require a bunch of stuff.

Check it out HERE
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Old 11-09-2009, 23:47   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Stoeger View Post
Hey guys…

With the help of quite a few shooter type folk we put together a dry fire practice program for USPSA. This would also work just fine for IDPA shooters. It is designed to be simple, and to not require a bunch of stuff.

Check it out HERE
Hey Ben,

Thanks for the program - can you compile it into a .pdf downloadable document?

Thanks,
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:04   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Stoeger View Post
Hey guys…

With the help of quite a few shooter type folk we put together a dry fire practice program for USPSA. This would also work just fine for IDPA shooters. It is designed to be simple, and to not require a bunch of stuff.

Check it out HERE
Hi Ben.... (or anyone else who can help me with this).

I want to improve my shooting, and have been looking for dry fire progams I can practice. But I get confused when I see dry fire programs that include shooting double taps. For example, in the "15 Minute Dry Fire Program", under the Draws header, it says "Draw and engage the target with 2 shots". And then gives times to try and execute that in. What? When I'm shooting LIVE fire, the tough part of a double tap is getting the sights back on target for the second shot, and is the part of my training that most needs work. But with dry fire.... I can pull my trigger once (to simulate first shot), but that's the end of "reality". My gun doesn't recoil, so that doesn't come into play, and my trigger doesn't reset do I can't even activate the trigger a second time.

I can say "bang bang" in my head... but I don't see that as being reality.

Where does the "reality" come into shooting double taps when dry firing? Are you shooting a gun (such as a revolver) that at least allows pulling the trigger multiple times even without live ammo? Because a Glock doesn't do that. You get one trigger press... then you have to rack the slide to do it again. But even if I COULD pull the trigger twice... I'm not sure I would find that effective training as my gun wouldn't jump from recoil between the two pulls.

For me... I work on "presenting" (draw and engaging target) and a "good" trigger squeeze... but that's about the extent of it. And of course I work on reloads as well. But I am totally lost when I see double-taps included as part of dry fire training.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:24   #4
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Where does the "reality" come into shooting double taps when dry firing? Are you shooting a gun (such as a revolver) that at least allows pulling the trigger multiple times even without live ammo? Because a Glock doesn't do that.
Ben uses a Beretta so he has a double action pull to work with. I shoot USPSA with a wheelgun so that works for me. Some people have started to gravitate to Airsoft as a way to understand sight movement and trigger work.

When I shot my XD I was able to still pull a small amount of trigger pull. If you are using a Glock you will not be able to simulate a second trigger pull with that gun.

An Airsoft Glock would be an effective way to get multiple shots in a training environment without shooting live ammo. Otherwise you wil have to find another method of training to get what you need.

For those that don't know Ben Stoeger is a USPSA Grand Master shooter and is more than qualified to suggest means for dry-fire and training exercises that will do nothing more than improve your shooting.
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:40   #5
Ed Deegan
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Dry Fire

You can insert a small piece of paper between the barrel and slide on a glock creating enough space to allow the multiple trigger squeezes for follow up shots. It just needs to keep the gun from going into battery. It wont be a complete trigger pull (with the hammer falling) but it is a trigger pull.

Second, if you have the chance, post a link to a video of your shooting showing the recoil issues you have. Doesnt have to be a long video, just something for others to see and offer guidance. It might something very simple.

Keep in mind that double taps can be a misnomer, rest assured of the following, Ben see's his sight picture between each shot, enough to do exactly what he wants and knows before ever looking at the target where the round hit.

Thanks Ben for the work you put into this presentation.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:36   #6
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You can insert a small piece of paper between the barrel and slide on a glock creating enough space to allow the multiple trigger squeezes for follow up shots. It just needs to keep the gun from going into battery. It wont be a complete trigger pull (with the hammer falling) but it is a trigger pull.
The Dillon Blue Press has an article describing this Glock dry fire technique written by Duane Thomas. Here is the link to the publication: http://www.bridleandbit.net/ebooks/b...files/main.swf
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:40   #7
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Originally Posted by ron59 View Post

Where does the "reality" come into shooting double taps when dry firing? Are you shooting a gun (such as a revolver) that at least allows pulling the trigger multiple times even without live ammo? Because a Glock doesn't do that. You get one trigger press... then you have to rack the slide to do it again. But even if I COULD pull the trigger twice... I'm not sure I would find that effective training as my gun wouldn't jump from recoil between the two pulls.
I must say that when I started dry firing I shared your skepticism. What is the point of “firing multiple rounds” in dry fire? I tried it, and it made a believer out of me. If you hit it hard for a few weeks I am pretty sure you will see an improvement. As someone posted above, there are ways to make your glock trigger work for you during this type of practice.

Well, you are working on everything but recoil control. Trigger finger speed, watching the gun move, watching the sights move, and so forth are all things that you do experience in dry fire.

This is just a training tool... one of many that are out there. It isn’t reality, it is dry fire practice. No more and certainly no less. If you find you hate it and it doesn’t work for you, it isn’t like you are out any money.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:21   #8
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For those that don't know Ben Stoeger is a USPSA Grand Master shooter and is more than qualified to suggest means for dry-fire and training exercises that will do nothing more than improve your shooting.
More than know who he is... I've had his site bookmarked for sometime now. Nothing but respect from me in that regard.

Still doesn't mean I can't question something, does it? I blindly accept nothing from nobody (bad grammar, but you get my point). If it doesn't fit my "world view", I ask questions to see what I'm missing. Doesn't mean disrespect in any way.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:30   #9
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The Dillon Blue Press has an article describing this Glock dry fire technique written by Duane Thomas. Here is the link to the publication: http://www.bridleandbit.net/ebooks/b...files/main.swf

EXCELLENT!!! Thank you! I was aware of the "kit" mentioned in the article, and if I can ever get a "spare" G17, might buy one to have even better practice. Don't want to have to detail strip my gun alot though to switch between dry fire and live fire.

But the "cardboard trick" might be just what I was looking for. Thanks!
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:35   #10
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I must say that when I started dry firing I shared your skepticism. What is the point of “firing multiple rounds” in dry fire? I tried it, and it made a believer out of me. If you hit it hard for a few weeks I am pretty sure you will see an improvement. As someone posted above, there are ways to make your glock trigger work for you during this type of practice.

Well, you are working on everything but recoil control. Trigger finger speed, watching the gun move, watching the sights move, and so forth are all things that you do experience in dry fire.

This is just a training tool... one of many that are out there. It isn’t reality, it is dry fire practice. No more and certainly no less. If you find you hate it and it doesn’t work for you, it isn’t like you are out any money.
Ben... yes, definitely realized I couldn't work on recoil, but it was that second trigger pull that had me confused. I was aware that revolvers allowed for continually actuating the trigger, but knew I couldn't with my Glock.

With your Baretta, are you able to "fire" the gun multiply in dry fire? Other than my .357 revolver, a Glock is the only semi-auto I've owned... I sort've "assumed" that semi-autos would all need to have the slide cycled to do that?

But no... I DEFINITELY realize I need more dry fire practice (another trick I do is dry fire with my revolver as the trigger pull is MUCH heavier than my Glock... I figure it strengthens my trigger finger?). Again... I just couldn't get past the pull-the-trigger-one-time-with-a-Glock thing, and couldn't mesh that with the "fire two shots" concept.

I'll give that cardboard trick a go tonight and see how that works.
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Old 11-10-2009, 15:40   #11
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In Steve Anderson's book 'Refinement and Repetition', he writes that Glock shooters should just continue to press the trigger. With the drills from Steve's book, it is more about timing your reaction to the beep and working on draws, index etc...

Most of the drills in that particular system don't require you to break the trigger at all. I plan on giving Ben's system a try for a while to give me a change of pace and something I can work on indoors on rainy days.

For a good dry fire kit, click on the link below and scroll to the bottom of the page.

http://www.southwestshootingauthority.com/612600.html
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:38   #12
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Originally Posted by dsmw5142 View Post
In Steve Anderson's book 'Refinement and Repetition', he writes that Glock shooters should just continue to press the trigger. With the drills from Steve's book, it is more about timing your reaction to the beep and working on draws, index etc...

Most of the drills in that particular system don't require you to break the trigger at all. I plan on giving Ben's system a try for a while to give me a change of pace and something I can work on indoors on rainy days.

For a good dry fire kit, click on the link below and scroll to the bottom of the page.

http://www.southwestshootingauthority.com/612600.html

Thanks for the link. Great stuff on that site!
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:37   #13
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I got a look at it through Chris S in Milan, Ben. Well thought out, and it sure has helped his sorry butt.

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Old 01-15-2010, 19:12   #14
Ben Stoeger
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I got a look at it through Chris S in Milan, Ben. Well thought out, and it sure has helped his sorry butt.

Dan
Maybe I will be down there to do another class this year... I dunno. I havent heard from Chris yet. He is getting good though isnt he?
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Old 01-17-2010, 11:21   #15
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Maybe I will be down there to do another class this year... I dunno. I havent heard from Chris yet. He is getting good though isnt he?
I last shot with him at our IDPA match in November. He did okay. After he saw the light and dumped that Godforsaken Sigma he's doing a lot better.

You *should* come up here for Mas Ayoob in March, and again for Rob Pincus in May. LOL

Dan
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Old 01-18-2010, 22:45   #16
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thanks for having a great website Ben!!!
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Old 01-27-2010, 22:18   #17
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What to do with the Glock in dryfire: A small piece of cardboard lets you repeatedly pull the trigger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DvyZvdC2Bs

You're going to question this, too. The trigger feels all wrong. What's important is that you're practicing manipulating it, not how it feels. Try this: don't worry about the recoil, or the trigger pull. Gimmick the gun with a scrap of paper, and dryfire for 15-30 minutes a day for a week. Now go to the range and shoot.

If the difference doesn't surprise you, you will be the very first person I've ever heard that was disappointed.
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It's not impossible to reach the slide stop

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Old 01-28-2010, 21:08   #18
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any chance of this cardboard trick hurting the gun at all?
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Old 01-29-2010, 22:12   #19
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Not really. Never hurt mine.
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It's not impossible to reach the slide stop
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Old 01-30-2010, 00:26   #20
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so, does the firing pin slam into the safety plunger?
if so, i would think that would damage the pin over time.

if nothing internal moves, then GAME ON!! i will be trying it.
thanks
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