As far as I know, this is not a formal "holiday" (thus the quotes), but it was brought up in the WI section of OCDO.
Black Friday would be a great day for those that are legally able to carry openly to do so! There will be masses in the malls, so hundreds (if not thousands) will see law-abiding citizens openly protecting themselves from the dangers of the shopping zombies*.
Just a thought. If I didn't hate mall masses so much, I'd probably join. Maybe I will, this year, anyways! It would be a great chance to educate the masses while getting some shopping done.
OCDO "National Open Carry Education Day" thread...
*just don't go to make a point. Actually do your shopping, but carry openly, if legal, rather than concealed...
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Last edited by gollbladder13; 11-12-2009 at 08:46.
Sounds like a really, really bad idea, thought up by anti-gunners to force a reaction against guns by that large undecided majority. I hope nobody with a gun is really stuppid enough to take part in something that likely to screw us all.
__________________ DISCLAIMER: references to idiots in my reply refers to fictional persons or persons who are not members of Glocktalk and should not be taken as a reference to a Glocktalk member, regardless of the common sense of his statements or lack thereof.
Sounds like a really, really bad idea, thought up by anti-gunners to force a reaction against guns by that large undecided majority. I hope nobody with a gun is really stuppid enough to take part in something that likely to screw us all.
Oops, I guess I screwed us all last night when I OC'd at a restaurant and had an enjoyable experience, without any major reactions except by a trio 8 year olds.... Triplets are awesome btw.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that if I leave home that day, I'm in.
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If you do not normally open carry, you probably will not open carry.
Go forth and educate.
__________________ Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Choose to put your faith in those who wear badges and praise them for the peace of mind instilled, but do not turn and scorn the time it takes to get them there while all the while innocent are killed. Sara Reilly, Sophomore Virginia Tech
Oops, I guess I screwed us all last night when I OC'd at a restaurant and had an enjoyable experience, without any major reactions except by a trio 8 year olds.... Triplets are awesome btw.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that if I leave home that day, I'm in.
I wouldn't say you "screwed us all" since you didn't see as many people as would be the case with thousands of open carriers, but you probably contributed.
In the 1960's, during the civil rights struggle, the only leader who really made any positive progress was MLK. While much of it was made by getting killed, he also made a lot of progress before that. The reason is because he and his membership at SCLC understood that only a relatively small minority were polarized on either side of the civil rights issue and the large majority were on the fence and undecided. If black people scared that big white middle class by acting miiliitant, like the Black Panthers, it would turn a majority of white people against them and they would inevitably lose, since they couldn't possibly get what they wanted by force. What they did was conduct training where they learned and practiced nonviolent protest and ppracticed doing things like prraying while being insulted, sprayed with fire hoses and beaten. As calculated, when they did that in public and iit wa sseeen by people across the country, they were perceived as nonthreatenning victims of brutal white police. Because of that iimage, they swayed that needed majoriity to their cause and they won.
Now apply the same lesson to the 2nd amendment civil rights struggle. Who is the SCLC, showing that nonthreatening, ppatriotic, All__American face to the large silent majority - the NRA, shooting clubs (mostly NRA clubs) that have family days and women's/kids' shooting classes and promote American/famiily values beyond shooting - TV shows that show the sporting and responsible side of shooting - shooters who responsibly introduce others too the sport. Now who are the Black Panthers - too impaient for change to help, so they actually are opposing the gun rights cause by scaring the silent majority toward the other side? - Militias, wannabe commando nuts, and...open carrriers who think walking around with a gun making that big silent majority nervous is somehow going to bring them to our side. Hey, being a Black Panther was a fun and exciting adventure and it impressed the hippie girls, but in the end, if the Black Panthers had been the voice of civil rights, we'd probably have slavery reinstituted by now.
__________________ DISCLAIMER: references to idiots in my reply refers to fictional persons or persons who are not members of Glocktalk and should not be taken as a reference to a Glocktalk member, regardless of the common sense of his statements or lack thereof.
And women should just stay in the kitchen and do what the man of the house says, right?
Open carry was around and preferred up until recent history. Only criminals hid their weapons.
Now, to not scare the sheaple, we are told we need to hide our guns.
If you look at the encounters of open carriers, the vast majority are very positive.
I can legally open carry in my town, but I have NO desire to do any shopping on Black Friday! I got up early last year to get a good deal on a GPS for my mom only to find out two weeks before Christmas that she bought herself one. There is nothing I need to shop for this year that warrants me getting out and about on that crazy day.
I like to hide my gun because I do not want to have to worry about every group of thugs seeing me as a good pastsy to steal a gun from. If they don't know I have it, they won't try to take it. Hiding it is part of the statagy. That is one reason why not all cops open carry -- Sky Marshals.
I also think that constant open carry in the faces of those who would object to it, would just cause them to rally against open carry in an election.
I like to hide my gun because I do not want to have to worry about every group of thugs seeing me as a good pastsy to steal a gun from. I like to carry my gun in plain sight because I want thugs to know I am not easy prey. And there still hasn't been one documented case of a thug stealing an openly carried gun off a civilian. If there has I'd like to hear about it. If they don't know I have it, they won't try to take it. If they know I have it they won't try to attack me since it is obvious I have the means to defend myself. A concealed gun is hidden and does not have any influence in stopping the attack before it begins. If the sight of my gun chases a bad guy away then, since the best way to win a gunfight is to not get into a gunfight in the first place, I don't have to respond to the attack that never happened... and I win without even having to fight. Hiding it is part of the statagy. Having it in plain sight is part of the strategy in stopping the attack before it even begins by notifying the would be attacker I already have the means to resist.That is one reason why not all cops open carry -- Sky Marshals.That is the reason most cops open carry.. to send the message to the bad guys that it would not be wise to attack them since it is obvious the cop isn't defenseless.
I also think that constant open carry in the faces of those who would object to it, would just cause them to rally against open carry in an election.I think open carry will eventually have the effect of normalizing the sight of a holstered gun in society making the concern of folks voting for more gun control a non issue. I also believe that the more people who hide their guns the more impact the anti gun faction has with their "guns are scary and dangerous" agenda. I also believe the single most effective thing the anti gunners managed to do was to shape society to fear the sight of a gun.(Please note that I am not advocating open carry where it is illegal since intentionally breaking the law would really help the anti gun faction.)
Join the NRA. -- Please I agree and have been a member for quite some time. But I also believe in doing more than just allowing an organization to do all the work so I open carry. And I suspect you, and many other GT members do also in ways other than open carry so that wasn't intended as an implied insult.
To 1006... I'm not knocking your stance at all with my responses. Especially since not too long ago I held the same beliefs as you. I'm only giving the other side for your consideration.
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The longer I live the older I get.
Neither has anything to do with wisdom.
I will once again venture where angels fear to tread, and try to reproduce some points that were saved by RussP as a sticky long ago.
I think a national open carry day targeting Black Friday is a bad idea. The purpose of "demonstrations" is to persuade others to your cause. We live in a society where the majority of the citizens in our country have limited exposure to firearms, and soccer moms and others like them have been indoctrinated to believe that guns are evil and their mere presence will cause harm.
Some of the most visible and publicized instances of active shooters in recent history have been at U.S. malls. Surviving Disaster on the Spike TV network recently had a show on how to deal with that situation. What is going to be the mind-set of the average mom at the mall with the kids on Black Friday if they see 20 people walking around with exposed firearms? One word: fear. The cops will be called, scenes will be made, and the mall manager will probably trespass notice those who are open carrying out of the mall. (It is his right – the mall is private property.) How does that promote the cause? It only builds fear and resentment.
Contrast that with the folks in Virginia who publicized a picnic and encouraged everyone to open carry at the event. They received very positive news coverage, did not scare anyone, and advanced the cause.
There is also a group in New Hampshire (?) that does an open carry highway clean up. Positive results follow.
Organize a free family-friendly firearms safety/introduction course that day, make it a barbeque, and invite the media.
To the contrary, the soccer mom who open carried to the kids’ soccer match was counter-productive. She had the right to do so, but by doing so in an environment where we all know it would create alarm and concern, she hurt the cause. (I do not wish to speak ill of the dead following her tragic death, but the point is important.)
No one is questioning a person’s right to open carry if allowed by state law, but possessing a right does not mean one must exercise it at all times. Discretion is a great tool in the advancement of the cause.
One person seen occasionally carrying a firearm is not the perceived threat that 5 together would be. For example, have an open carry day breakfast at a restaurant, but call the manager in advance, tell him that a group of firearm enthusiasts will be coming for breakfast and they will have visible firearms. This lets him prepare his staff to deal with any issues that may arise among them or other customers. That would simply be a common courtesy and will win an ally instead of creating an enemy.
In all forms of advocacy, remember who your target audience is. Your goal is to persuade, not inflame. Please remember that as you exercise your rights.
Only when and where appropriate, and remember, when and where appropriate may differ based on location and personal beliefs.
__________________ Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Choose to put your faith in those who wear badges and praise them for the peace of mind instilled, but do not turn and scorn the time it takes to get them there while all the while innocent are killed. Sara Reilly, Sophomore Virginia Tech
Oops, I guess I screwed us all last night when I OC'd at a restaurant and had an enjoyable experience, without any major reactions except by a trio 8 year olds.... Triplets are awesome btw.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that if I leave home that day, I'm in.
Were I not in Florida, I'd love to participate, except for the choice of Black Friday, when I absolutely do not leave the house.
Black Friday has become a media circus of mayhem and flared tempers already, one moron deciding he "feared for his life" while trying to get a $25 laptop could be an anti's wet dream.
An Open Carry Day, methinks, is a good idea, having it coincide with the day people are on their worst behavior, not so much.
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May I be the kind of man my dog thinks I am.
I am okay with the other side of the aurgument. I do not have actual cases to point at, but I believe open carry does invite trouble. Most people, even those who carry, will loose a fight and their gun to a trained or practiced attacker. I learned that from a hand to hand combat instructor, while in his class.
Police officers are trained to prevent the "Gun Grab" but it still happens.
I think that the only way to re-shape society is to get more people to view guns and gun users as a responsible means of self-defense and protection.
Flaunting a gun in front of an anti-gunner won't make them see it our way; it will just make us look crazy to those people, and give them a reason to try to prevent you from doing it again. They will see us as they see us, from their vantage point.
I will once again venture where angels fear to tread, and try to reproduce some points that were saved by RussP as a sticky long ago.
I think a national open carry day targeting Black Friday is a bad idea. The purpose of "demonstrations" is to persuade others to your cause. We live in a society where the majority of the citizens in our country have limited exposure to firearms, and soccer moms and others like them have been indoctrinated to believe that guns are evil and their mere presence will cause harm.
Some of the most visible and publicized instances of active shooters in recent history have been at U.S. malls. Surviving Disaster on the Spike TV network recently had a show on how to deal with that situation. What is going to be the mind-set of the average mom at the mall with the kids on Black Friday if they see 20 people walking around with exposed firearms? One word: fear. The cops will be called, scenes will be made, and the mall manager will probably trespass notice those who are open carrying out of the mall. (It is his right – the mall is private property.) How does that promote the cause? It only builds fear and resentment.
Contrast that with the folks in Virginia who publicized a picnic and encouraged everyone to open carry at the event. They received very positive news coverage, did not scare anyone, and advanced the cause.
There is also a group in New Hampshire (?) that does an open carry highway clean up. Positive results follow.
Organize a free family-friendly firearms safety/introduction course that day, make it a barbeque, and invite the media.
To the contrary, the soccer mom who open carried to the kids’ soccer match was counter-productive. She had the right to do so, but by doing so in an environment where we all know it would create alarm and concern, she hurt the cause. (I do not wish to speak ill of the dead following her tragic death, but the point is important.)
No one is questioning a person’s right to open carry if allowed by state law, but possessing a right does not mean one must exercise it at all times. Discretion is a great tool in the advancement of the cause.
One person seen occasionally carrying a firearm is not the perceived threat that 5 together would be. For example, have an open carry day breakfast at a restaurant, but call the manager in advance, tell him that a group of firearm enthusiasts will be coming for breakfast and they will have visible firearms. This lets him prepare his staff to deal with any issues that may arise among them or other customers. That would simply be a common courtesy and will win an ally instead of creating an enemy.
In all forms of advocacy, remember who your target audience is. Your goal is to persuade, not inflame. Please remember that as you exercise your rights.
This is true in only parts of the country. Here in the South, 78% of homes have firearms in them. I suspect similar numbers would be the case for states such as Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, and Idaho.
As for Virginia, open carrying is simply a no brainer. We rarely have any problems here with it.
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In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
It is is legal to open carry here in KY, but the malls have "no weapons" signs. If I go in open carrying, I am not going to be there very long......
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"For those who respect man's laws, we have the Constitution and Bill of Rights; for those who respect God's laws, we have the Holy Bible; and for those who respect neither, that is why we have our Glock".
It is is legal to open carry here in KY, but the malls have "no weapons" signs. If I go in open carrying, I am not going to be there very long......
Yeah, for those such places, and we do have a few of them, I will conceal my sidearm or make sure I carry something that passes for me as a good pocket gun if I know I am going to such a location.
__________________
In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
Were I not in Florida, I'd love to participate, except for the choice of Black Friday, when I absolutely do not leave the house........
That makes at least two people in the USA who will hunker down in "the Command Bunker" to weather out the shopping storm I wouldn't go anywhere near a mall or store on that day.
I think the 4th of July would be a more meaningful day to do this deal. Open carry is legal in Maine last time I checked, but I never have used this right. Prefer to keep the bad guys guessing, and avoid possible hassles with the good-guys.
I should add that I am not of a mind to break any laws. But CC'ing into a mall where a sign is posted is not against the law since the mall has no legal power. However, you certainly can be asked to leave and you'd better, otherwise you would open yourself up to a charge of trespassing.
__________________
In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
And women should just stay in the kitchen and do what the man of the house says, right?
I wouldn't go anywhere near a mall or store on that day.
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