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Old 01-05-2010, 16:17   #51
Wash-ar15
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when you get the half index,turn the adjustment screw till the shellplate tuns and pops into place.
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Old 01-05-2010, 16:20   #52
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Originally Posted by Wash-ar15 View Post
when you get the half index,turn the adjustment screw till the shellplate tuns and pops into place.
That's correct and in the instructions. At least it used to be in the instructions when mine was made back in the 80's. He was advised to follow the directions and re-set the indexing. I figure he tried this already, maybe not?
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Old 01-05-2010, 16:24   #53
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Originally Posted by Wash-ar15 View Post
when you get the half index,turn the adjustment screw till the shellplate tuns and pops into place.
You then turn the adjustment screw an additional 3/4 turn after it pops into place. See the Pro 1000 zero video here
http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html
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Old 01-05-2010, 16:47   #54
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I never turn the screw once it pops in place. when you guys use the machine,use a smooth slow motion. If one is too fast it messes them up.
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Old 01-05-2010, 16:52   #55
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Originally Posted by Wash-ar15 View Post
I never turn the screw once it pops in place. when you guys use the machine,use a smooth slow motion. If one is too fast it messes them up.
I go about 1/2 turn after it pops. If I don't, the shellplate lags behind. If I cycle the press too slowly, the primers don't fall into place. Smooth and slow yes, but not too slow. Flailing away at lightspeed trying to load 1000 rounds per hour will definately end in failure, but creeping along causes it's own problems in my expirience.
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Old 01-05-2010, 16:59   #56
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
I go about 1/2 turn after it pops. If I don't, the shellplate lags behind. If I cycle the press too slowly, the primers don't fall into place. Smooth and slow yes, but not too slow. Flailing away at lightspeed trying to load 1000 rounds per hour will definately end in failure, but creeping along causes it's own problems in my expirience.
I agree with you on the rate. The Pro 1000 is not a press where you just crank the handle faster if you want a faster rate of production. When I used the primer feed, I'd encounter numerous issues - one case in the sizing die and a second that would creep too far and get crushed at the top of the stroke, or primers that would fail to be positioned for seating resulting in a loaded cartridge with no primer...PITA with powder spill.

It's best to focus on full & consistent strokes - both all the up & down.
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Old 01-05-2010, 17:06   #57
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one of the thing i have found most important with the pro 1k is that it be mounted on a STURDY bench.

I don't have much problem primers.Right whne I get to the up stroke and the primer is about to be seated,I pause for a split second. It seems to help with primer. I recall loading 500 rd of 45 once with no primers bad.
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Old 01-05-2010, 17:09   #58
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Originally Posted by Wash-ar15 View Post
one of the thing i have found most important with the pro 1k is that it be mounted on a STURDY bench.

I don't have much problem primers.Right whne I get to the up stroke and the primer is about to be seated,I pause for a split second. It seems to help with primer. I recall loading 500 rd of 45 once with no primers bad.
Honestly, try giving your timing screw that additional 1/2-3/4 turn. It will get your shellplate turning sooner and this will trip the case sensor to release the primer sooner. It will then get there sooner before you reach the bottom of the ram's (top of handle's) stroke.
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Old 01-05-2010, 22:20   #59
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What the timing screw actually controls is how far the shellplate will rotate once it engages the spiral section of the indexing rod. It works because it controls the position of the teeth on the ratchet gear relative to those on the hex ratchet. The ratchet gear is held in place relative to the shellplate carrier by the timing screw.

The problem I'm having is unrelated to that setting, since the next shellplate rotation will be fine immediately after the errant one (after I reposition the shellplate, of course).

I have reset the indexing multiple times (I do so whenever I put the shellplate carrier back together, for one thing). Predictably, it has had no noticeable effect on the problem.


At this point it's unclear what the root cause of the problem is. I suspect the indexing rod may be machined slightly incorrectly such that the hex ratchet can't consistently get a good bite on the indexing rod. But it may also be that the ratchet gear has some subtle manufacturing defect that prevents it from being completely reliable in holding the hex ratchet in place during shellplate rotation.

I'm hopeful that I'll discover the root cause when my spare parts come in.

Last edited by kcbrown; 01-05-2010 at 22:33..
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:38   #60
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
What the timing screw actually controls is how far the shellplate will rotate once it engages the spiral section of the indexing rod. It works because it controls the position of the teeth on the ratchet gear relative to those on the hex ratchet. The ratchet gear is held in place relative to the shellplate carrier by the timing screw.

The problem I'm having is unrelated to that setting, since the next shellplate rotation will be fine immediately after the errant one (after I reposition the shellplate, of course).

I have reset the indexing multiple times (I do so whenever I put the shellplate carrier back together, for one thing). Predictably, it has had no noticeable effect on the problem.


At this point it's unclear what the root cause of the problem is. I suspect the indexing rod may be machined slightly incorrectly such that the hex ratchet can't consistently get a good bite on the indexing rod. But it may also be that the ratchet gear has some subtle manufacturing defect that prevents it from being completely reliable in holding the hex ratchet in place during shellplate rotation.

I'm hopeful that I'll discover the root cause when my spare parts come in.
You may looked into this already. But one thing that I found affecting my indexing was that my carrier holder was warped. It's a cast aluminum part, IIRC. When I spoke with a technician at Lee, he said that 'you'll never get the indexing to work correctly if that part is warped.' You can buy a replacement for $20 from here -
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...941.4162=90640

It's TR2429. I replaced mine and it helped resolve my major problem.

Just a thought.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:51   #61
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it may be the nut that retains the shell plate. did you damage it when you removed it?? I did the first time,not realizing that its reverse thread.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:27   #62
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it may be the nut that retains the shell plate. did you damage it when you removed it?? I did the first time,not realizing that its reverse thread.
Nope, the nut ("drive bolt" is how Lee refers to it, I think) is completely intact. I knew ahead of time that it was reverse threaded (in reality, it's not that it's reverse threaded, but instead the shellplate threads onto it. The threads themselves are still the standard right-hand threads). Even so, I checked it over for damage after I had the shellplate carrier apart, just in case.

I try to use minimal force when dealing with mechanical things. In this case, I knew the shellplate was secured finger-tight, so I turned the drive bolt by hand.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:28   #63
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You may looked into this already. But one thing that I found affecting my indexing was that my carrier holder was warped. It's a cast aluminum part, IIRC. When I spoke with a technician at Lee, he said that 'you'll never get the indexing to work correctly if that part is warped.' You can buy a replacement for $20 from here -
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...941.4162=90640

It's TR2429. I replaced mine and it helped resolve my major problem.

Just a thought.

That's an interesting possibility. If nothing else works, I'll go there next. Midway sells the entire shellplate carrier assembly, complete with shellplate, for $40, so if I have to replace the carrier I'll probably just replace everything and that way I'll have tons of spare parts.
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Old 01-06-2010, 14:05   #64
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if you have had it less than 2 years,send the part back to lee and they will send you a new one. did it with the primer arms for my LM and they sent me back double.
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Old 01-11-2010, 20:06   #65
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My spare parts from Lee should arrive tomorrow. In it will be lots more hex ratchets, some ratchet gears, some indexing rods, and other miscellaneous parts.

There's one thing I did that may help, but even with this mod I did hit the same indexing issue so I'm not convinced it solves it completely. The problem I fixed is that basically, there's no real tension on the indexing screw -- it's free to turn. I suspect that when the press is operating, it does turn, ever so slightly, and since this press seems to be very sensitive to that setting, it can come out of calibration and start causing trouble.

So I cut up a bit of an old mousepad and stuffed that into the small section of the shellplate carrier underneath the removable shellplate cover and adjacent to the indexing adjustment screw, so that the bit of foam rubs against the side of the screw. The screw can still turn via a screwdriver, but it should no longer turn on its own as a result of vibration from press operation. I'll take a picture of it the next time I get an opportunity.

Hopefully one or more of the spare parts I get will solve my intermittent indexing issue once and for all.
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Old 01-12-2010, 20:45   #66
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The spare parts arrived today.

I ordered quite a few things. A couple of indexing rods, a few ratchet gears, a lot of hex ratchets, a couple of shellplate drive bolts, and a few other odds and ends.

I replaced the drive bolt, the ratchet gear, the indexing rod, and the hex ratchet all in one pass. I figured if I was going to replace parts, I may as well replace all of them. I carefully examined the old parts and compared them with the new ones. Only one thing stands out as being different: the drive bolt.

Here's what the old one looks like, from the top:

Reloading



Notice anything unusual?

The defect is very subtle: the hex hole is slightly off center.

I believe this is what was causing my intermittent indexing issue. Because the hole was off center, this forced the indexing rod to be canted slightly relative to the ratchet gear (or for the center of the hex ratchet to be offset slightly relative to the ratchet gear). When the ratchet gear mates with the hex ratchet, this condition causes an asymmetric load between the hex ratchet and the ratchet gear, and I suspect it was sometimes enough to cause the "teeth" to unmesh just enough to allow the hex ratchet to turn 60 degrees relative to the ratchet gear. That caused the indexing to stop mid-stride. End result: the shellplate turns only half the amount it should, intermittently.

After replacing the indexing components and adjusting the indexing again (I kept the modification that keeps the indexing adjustment screw in place since I figured it was a good idea), I ran a couple of hundred cases through the press. Not a single failure to index.

I'll assemble another 400 rounds of ammunition with it in the next day or two, but this time I'm not expecting any problems. And if that's the case, then it means my Pro 1000 is now a reliable press.


And that means there's no more tinkering left to do with it.


I guess I'll just have to get a Lee Loadmaster next.



ETA: I take that back. There is one thing left to do on the tinkering side of things: I want to figure out how to get it to drop the spent primers through a tube instead of into the area underneath the press. I don't want to have to drill a hole into my bench underneath the press for that. Guess the Loadmaster will just have to wait...

Last edited by kcbrown; 01-12-2010 at 20:51..
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:45   #67
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HA!! I told ya its the drive bolt. that thing is made of soft metal and any deformation will cause problems. Got a extra one laying around just in case.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:51   #68
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I'll assemble another 400 rounds of ammunition with it in the next day or two, but this time I'm not expecting any problems. And if that's the case, then it means my Pro 1000 is now a reliable press.


And that means there's no more tinkering left to do with it.


I guess I'll just have to get a Lee Loadmaster next.
I found a club that looks perfect for you.

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Old 01-13-2010, 13:50   #69
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I found a club that looks perfect for you.

http://www.optimist.org/e/Visitor/creed.cfm/
Well, I already know I'm an optimist, because things usually turn out even worse than I predict!
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Old 01-13-2010, 16:13   #70
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Well, I ran another batch of 300 rounds last night.

And encountered the failure to completely index again. I thought that perhaps it was the result of some sort of interruption in the stroke but I had it happen when I was producing continuous motion during the downstroke of the ram, so I can safely rule out operator error.

So while the drive bolt may have been contributing to the problem, it's not the sole cause.

I found that when the problem occurs, if I turn the indexing screw perhaps an eighth of a turn clockwise, the problem clears up again for a while. That suggests to me a couple of things:

  • The alignment of the internal indexing parts is critical. If the ratchet gear moves it'll take the indexing out of calibration and will result in exactly the problem I'm seeing.
  • Whatever I can do to minimize the possible movement of the ratchet gear is probably worth doing.

When I assembled the shellplate carrier prior to running the press, I used a different material to keep the indexing adjustment screw from moving, and found later that it had "formed" to the screw and no longer was placing much pressure on it. I've replaced it with a material that should prove better for that. I also didn't pay much attention to the placement of the shellplate cover, but the cover is used to anchor the indexing adjustment screw. It's possible that when I assembled the shellplate carrier, there was a bit of free play there that I had neglected to take out.

And finally, I found that it is indeed possible to use too little force when putting the shellplate and drive bolt back together. Rather than use a bunch of force to ensure that the two stay put relative to each other, I'm now using Loctite to keep them together.


Oddly enough, the priming system of my Pro 1000 is the one system that hasn't given me any trouble at all. There have been a few rounds made where the primer had a small indentation in it as a result of a grain of powder getting onto the priming pin but that's been the extent of my trouble with the priming system itself, and that's something that can happen on the Dillon as well.

The priming system isn't very forgiving if you can't prime the case for some reason (for instance, I've had a few cases where the old primer was corroded and the decapping pin managed to remove the base of the old primer but not the sides, so the resulting case was unusable), and you have to fiddle with it if you insist on using the same primer for the next case -- it's much easier to simply pluck the primer off the priming pin and use it later.


I'll run another bunch of cases through the press to see if it's reliable, but I now have enough 9mm ammo to last a few trips to the range, so my tests will have to be with empty cases. I guess perhaps it's time to spend less time playing with the press and more time going to the range!

Anyway, I guess I'll be putting off that purchase of the Loadmaster for the moment...

Last edited by kcbrown; 01-20-2010 at 11:43.. Reason: "firing pin" instead of "priming pin"? Ooops. Fixed. :-D
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Old 01-13-2010, 16:49   #71
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Well, I already know I'm an optimist, because things usually turn out even worse than I predict!
That's not an optimist. An optimist would be Jack getting hitched again.
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Old 01-13-2010, 22:30   #72
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Anyway, I guess I'll be putting off that purchase of the Loadmaster for the moment...

While I've never had an indexing problem with the pro1000, short stroking will cause it to 1/2 index.

The loadmaster is fun and very different. I think it needs unusal setup. I put the sizer die in station 2 (and a decaping die in station 1) which gives very precise control on the case as the primer is seated. Which happens as the ram goes up and runs all the cases into their dies. Of course the priming has no feel with this system. The primer feed has some plastic parts that move the primers on top of the primer pin. If you let the primers run out, the last primer or two stick the plastic carrier above the primer seating pin and destroy the plastic primer carrier.

And indexing is TOTALY different than the pro1000. Indexing happens when the handle pushes the square indexing rod under the shellplate, Catching and turning the shellplate by a pin on it's bottom.

NOTE that the 2ond station has the priming function so the powder drop must be done in station 3. This leaves only 2 stations for the powder check, bullet seating, and crimping. If you can adjust the bullet seating die to crimp, you could put it in station 5. I did this and found it worked very good by pumping the handle with my left hand and seating bullets with my right hand. I drop a new case with my right hand as the ram reaches its top.

I think seating bullets in station 5 only works for me because I don't use the case feeder. (I don't like filling tubes, and think it is just as fast to drop the cases by hand). Also, leaving the case feeder off makes changing calibers much easier.

I found that everything on the loadmaster cost about 50% more than the pro1000.


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Old 01-14-2010, 08:54   #73
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That's not an optimist. An optimist would be Jack getting hitched again.


That wouldn't be an optimist either... that would be insanity.

Jack
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:51   #74
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I haven't assembled any more ammo with the press yet, but as of now I haven't had a single failure to properly index in some 300 to 400 actuations of the press (most of which involved running cases through it with the turret mounted and the powder measure emptied).

I expect to assemble a couple of hundred rounds within the next few days.

One thing of note: the spring tension underneath the steel ball that's used to align the shellplate is too high for loading 9mm. It causes the shellplate to snap into position with too much gusto, and the result is that a small amount of powder will jump out of the case and land on the shellplate. Since this press is relatively sensitive to such contamination if it gets into the priming system, this isn't a trivial matter.

Oddly enough, the Dillon 650 has the same issue but that is easy enough to deal with by setting the tension of the shellplate bolt appropriately so that the friction between the shellplate and the carrier is enough to keep the shellplate from snapping into position like that. That's not an option on the Pro 1000, and the only way to do the equivalent would be to put a nylon washer or something of the appropriate thickness between the shellplate and the shellplate carrier. The Pro 1000, therefore, needed a different solution.

To deal with this issue on the Pro 1000, I took the shellplate off, removed the ball and spring, and cut a turn off the spring. I then bent the new end of the spring back to horizontal and pulled on the spring to extend it so that its size matched that of the original. I then assembled everything back together.

The end result seems to be that the shellplate doesn't snap into position with such force, and my preliminary tests show that the powder is now staying put much better than it did before. It's not completely perfect but it's a vast improvement.

A weaker spring underneath the steel ball would probably be a good change for Lee to make.

Last edited by kcbrown; 01-20-2010 at 11:55..
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:56   #75
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It's not completely perfect but it's a vast improvement.
That made me laugh again. I remember using those ideas when I had a LEE.

"Well, it's not perfect, but its a lot better."
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