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Old 12-02-2009, 01:00   #1
RyanExtra
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SBR AR. Waste of $$ or Awesome??

So is a short barreled AR the ultimate home defense weapon or a huge waste of cash?

Just to clarify what I am talking about would be a AR pistol but with a stock. Like this but in 5.56 mm

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Old 12-02-2009, 01:12   #2
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I'm gonna build a pistol. Thinking more like a 10.5" barrel. And later if I want Uncle sugars permission I may go SBR. But that isn't likely. Single point sling and a good "cheek" weld. Will make it plenty accurate for a truck gun.

Besides I love loud scarry looking things that upset fuds and pantie wetters.
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:18   #3
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without custom ammo, less effective than optimum. would it work? i dunno, try a few rounds indoors WITH hearing protection, then decide if you want to be deaf.

think about it some.
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:31   #4
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An SBR AR for HD? I guess it would be ok if you didn't have neighbors, kids, and didn't give a rats ass about your hearing.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:51   #5
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An SBR AR for HD? I guess it would be ok if you didn't have neighbors, kids, and didn't give a rats ass about your hearing.
If you're in a situation that dictates using your SBR for self defense, you're probably not even going to have ringing ears after you're finished firing, providing you're still alive of course. I've never had my ears ring after shooting a deer while hunting with my .308. Now, if I fire that same gun at the range, my ears ring for the entire day. I don't know how this works, it just does.

And who the hell cares about if the neighbors get disturbed...you're shooting somebody to save your damn life! They can wake up for that.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:53   #6
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here we go again...

Not much different than a .357, .40 or 10mm ect if your talking penetration... And I agree w/ above, Id rather be alive with a busted ear drum than pushing flowers

I have a Noveske SBR on order and Im planning on using it as a HD tool. I hope its worth it or I did waste a LOT of $. I say go for it.

Last edited by gleasonb; 12-02-2009 at 02:55..
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Old 12-02-2009, 03:58   #7
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the three main criteria for home self defense is have a warning system, dog is acceptable, have a loaded firearm and be committed to shoot at identified threats till there's no threat.

weapon description matters not much. observant, prepared, and a committed mindset are 99.+ %. A single shot shotgun and three shells is not unarmed, and having a belt fed after 5 beers is suicidal lack of forethought. To pay for 3000 ft per second ammo and castrate it to the low 2000s isn't smart no matter HOW much fun you have.

Defense isn't range toy. Never has been. Fun is plenty excuse for any legal gun. Why put frills around it? Nobody cares. God save me from folks think a 2 foot fireball in a public range makes them more manly.

Keeps me to hell off the range, so I guess I oughta thank em for saving me money, but I ain't that forgiving. Remind me again how many hundreds of dollars yer gonna spend on training and fun ammo? Or is that gonna be irrelevant? Use the bluidy gun you've trained with most, with affordable reliable ammo, and go shoot every week.

done. and if you think you're in danger from humans, lemme ask you how you're fixed for fire dangers? Which are a bunch more likely to surprise ya...would you cut the hose in half on a fire extinguisher to be cooler?

LOOK UP SUCCESSFUL SD EVENTS LAST 5 YEARS.

don't take my word for it. i didn't. chopping AR's is generally as smart as chopping shotguns without a ruler and equally justifiable, or they'd ISSUE 'em.

And you ain't likely to change my mind, after four marriages it takes a lot. Stubborn I do right well.

Took me 30 years and a good talkin' to, not to mention an ammo shortage, to make me buy a .22 pistol.

You wanna convince me SBR AR's are SMART, get up real early and pack a lunch. Fun I'll give ya free. Smart, you gotta prove and ya can't.
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Old 12-02-2009, 04:10   #8
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Hell ya their cool. It's gonna be a noisy critter though. I think I would prefer the longer 10.5- 11.5" in the rifle though. Better velocity, more range, and a longer sight radius. I got one on my wish list.

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Old 12-02-2009, 04:39   #9
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you know what a 125 gr .357 mag does at point blank range from a carbine? how about a full strength 12 gauge slug? Or a .30-06 carbine? bad news, all 3.

ya wanna know my go to? a steenkin service .38 that I can bounce cans with. ya know what's second? Another one. Now WHY would I use such an ineffective weapon?

Got bettin' money? No free lessons. glock with nightsights and a light, an extended mag, and I'll stand and cheer for ya. Longarms are unnecessarily powerful and generally slower to acquire the initial target. FIRST COUNTS. Bring the gun with which you're most accurate , and fastest if possible, at combat ranges indoors. If it's truly an sbr AR and you can bring it into action faster'n a handgun you're a fluke.

feh.
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:01   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanExtra View Post
So is a short barreled AR the ultimate home defense weapon or a huge waste of cash?

Just to clarify what I am talking about would be a AR pistol but with a stock. Like this but in 5.56 mm

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I have a 10.5 inch ar pistol. If I did an sbr, and added a stock, I wouldnt consider it the "ultimate" home defense weapon. Too loud, too much flash. I'll keep my carbine length barrel, with Surefire light for home defense. A sbr ar in 5.56 is much different than shooting a deer rifle. Touch off a few rounds in a enclosed area, see what I mean. Ive shot my ar pistol in a clay pit, with tall walls, WITH ear protection. Too much concussion for me. I would think your sight (flash) and hearing (concussion) would be important things to keep in a defense situation...
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:12   #11
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SBR's are cool and they can work for HD, in short range engagements. That's about it. This isn't a caliber war.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Shorties are loud, crass, and shoot a two foot muzzle blast. Just like a Harley with custom pipes. My .02 is SBR's get an awesome vote. <o:p></o:p>
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:06   #12
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I dont have the link, but if you want a SBR in an AR platform, look at a LWRC PSD in 6.8,,,this round was designed for short barreled applications $2200.00 plus stamp at SGC
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:43   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchshrader View Post
the three main criteria for home self defense is have a warning system, dog is acceptable, have a loaded firearm and be committed to shoot at identified threats till there's no threat.

weapon description matters not much. observant, prepared, and a committed mindset are 99.+ %. A single shot shotgun and three shells is not unarmed, and having a belt fed after 5 beers is suicidal lack of forethought. To pay for 3000 ft per second ammo and castrate it to the low 2000s isn't smart no matter HOW much fun you have.

Defense isn't range toy. Never has been. Fun is plenty excuse for any legal gun. Why put frills around it? Nobody cares. God save me from folks think a 2 foot fireball in a public range makes them more manly.

Keeps me to hell off the range, so I guess I oughta thank em for saving me money, but I ain't that forgiving. Remind me again how many hundreds of dollars yer gonna spend on training and fun ammo? Or is that gonna be irrelevant? Use the bluidy gun you've trained with most, with affordable reliable ammo, and go shoot every week.

done. and if you think you're in danger from humans, lemme ask you how you're fixed for fire dangers? Which are a bunch more likely to surprise ya...would you cut the hose in half on a fire extinguisher to be cooler?

LOOK UP SUCCESSFUL SD EVENTS LAST 5 YEARS.

don't take my word for it. i didn't. chopping AR's is generally as smart as chopping shotguns without a ruler and equally justifiable, or they'd ISSUE 'em.

And you ain't likely to change my mind, after four marriages it takes a lot. Stubborn I do right well.

Took me 30 years and a good talkin' to, not to mention an ammo shortage, to make me buy a .22 pistol.

You wanna convince me SBR AR's are SMART, get up real early and pack a lunch. Fun I'll give ya free. Smart, you gotta prove and ya can't.
I'll agree with the stubborn part.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:03   #14
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in a self defense situation where shots are fired at you and by you, I promise you WILL NOT remember the blast/noise or the recoil. Unfortunately I know that all too well.

back on topic

A SBR makes a fine HD weapon, so long as you know that weapon, and have put in the time to train with that weapon. Whatever weapon you decide to use for HD is your choice. Just make sure you have put in the time with that weapon to that when the time comes to use it, you have mastered it.

To the folks that say the SBR is a poor choice, have you ever used an SBR in a shoothouse? Heck, have you ever used a shoothouse or trained in any type of close quarters facility. Im not saying that you cant use a 14.5 or 16 brl carbine in that situation, because you can. But based on my first hand personal experience I am much quicker, and much more efficient with my SBR than I am with my 16 or 18 carbine.

Oh, and to all you folks complaining that SBR's are loud. Yeah they are. They are guns. Guns are loud. Get over it, or find a new hobby.

respectfully
Tim
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:03   #15
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I am going to clear out some of the vapors that are left behind from everyone crapping in this thread.

FACT:
- SBR ARs are not for everyone. Even in the military, only the SF and elite ops units get them
- SBR ARs do not carry the same muzzle energy as those with 16", 18", or 20"
- SBR ARs <10" suffer severe velocity loss and bullets do not reliably stabilize
- SBR ARs are loud and do have a large fireball due to unburned powder

But wait there's more:
- SBR ARs 10"+ are ideal for suppressing and can be made hearing safe while still <16" OAL
- Using heavier ammo (75gr.) gives SBR ARs more punch and fragmentation out to 200m
- 6.8mm is an option. Just know that there are reports of extraction issues.
- Quality ARs such as Noveske, LMT, LWRC, etc give reliability to the SBR platform
- Gas blowback while using a suppressor is awful, recommend a Noveske Switchblock


A quality SBR is a specialized tool to work in and around buildings, vehicles, while being able to perform 200m shots with reliable fragmentation. Accuracy is not effected by a 10.5" barrel, only velocity so you can shoot out to 400 yards if you wish but your bullet will probably not fragment as you would like it to.

Here is mine. If anyone wishes to say that it is inferior to theirs please go right ahead. I'm all ears.

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Old 12-02-2009, 09:19   #16
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For all you who think .223/5.56 will exit your house and penetrate your neighbors house. The bullet would be lucky to make it out of your house after going through 2 sheets of drywall.


http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/ammunition.html
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:26   #17
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Get an AUG. About the same length as a 10" bbl'ed AR, but you get a 16" bbl.

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Old 12-02-2009, 10:36   #18
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Get an AUG. About the same length as a 10" bbl'ed AR, but you get a 16" bbl.

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An AUG or a MSAR is an excellent choice if you decide you don't want to go the SBR route.

I have a 7.5 SBR, and I love it. That being said, I don't think I can ever consider it a primary source of self-defense, even if it were suppressed. If you go the SBR route, I would personally get an 11.5 SBR. Better ballistic results and a whole lot more companies willing to warranty a suppressor on it.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:00   #19
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I prefer pistol caliber AR's for HD......32rds on 9mm can be quite effective and it won't make me deaf

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Old 12-02-2009, 11:01   #20
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I prefer pistol caliber AR's for HD

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Very nice!
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