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Old 01-03-2010, 21:27   #61
Scouse
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Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
And yes 2 Hawks, he was behind the curve.

david says this is 'agenda' driven. No, it's lesson driven. And the lesson for us is that if WE are behind the curve, we sure don't need to add the extra manipulation of chamber loading while fighting for our lives. No imagine the same man grappling with one of the attackers and then having to chamber load his simi-auto!

And I think most GT readers see this, even if david does not.


Scouse,

I'll take a stab. A stuck slug in the barrel and the discharge put two slugs in the carpet? That or he was trying to 'fan' a DA revolver and got mixed up in the sequence.Deaf
Sat on the bench, put the 6 rounds in by hand (not with a speed loader) when he closed the cylinder! He pulled the hammer back! CLICK!

Why? I don't know, he did not either, the quickest way to lower it after messing around, was the loud way! The shock of the shot firing, he pulled the trigger again!

BANG/BANG I will tell you what happened at the tribunal when we meet Deaf. Funny.
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Old 01-03-2010, 21:38   #62
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david says this is 'agenda' driven. No, it's lesson driven.
If the lesson you get from this is "carry C3 is a bad thing" then you are being driven by the agenda instead of the facts. I don't claim to read every forum on the net, but I'm on a fair number of them, and this has popped up on a few, including another thread on this site. And this thread is the only one I've run across where a couple of folks are trying to argue that this is evidence that C3 is bad.

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from Scouse:
Sat on the bench, put the 6 rounds in by hand (not with a speed loader) when he closed the cylinder! He pulled the hammer back! CLICK!
Why? I don't know, he did not either, the quickest way to lower it after messing around, was the loud way! The shock of the shot firing, he pulled the trigger again!
Hmmm. According to deaf, that should be considered evidence of how bad carrying a loaded firearm is instead of bad gunhadling skills. And this fellow had a quality weapon and (I assume) fairly good training, which is supposed to solve this problem, again, according to deaf.
FYI, I've encountered that second round startle reflex shot a number of times when investigating shootings, both with revolvers and autos.
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Old 01-03-2010, 21:44   #63
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Yea, that poor guy was assassinated.
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Old 01-03-2010, 22:51   #64
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If the lesson you get from this is "carry C3 is a bad thing" then you are being driven by the agenda instead of the facts. I don't claim to read every forum on the net, but I'm on a fair number of them, and this has popped up on a few, including another thread on this site. And this thread is the only one I've run across where a couple of folks are trying to argue that this is evidence that C3 is bad.


Hmmm. According to deaf, that should be considered evidence of how bad carrying a loaded firearm is instead of bad gunhadling skills. And this fellow had a quality weapon and (I assume) fairly good training, which is supposed to solve this problem, again, according to deaf.
FYI, I've encountered that second round startle reflex shot a number of times when investigating shootings, both with revolvers and autos.
Well I trained him first!
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Old 01-04-2010, 13:54   #65
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opps, I was done here.

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Old 01-04-2010, 16:38   #66
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Hmmm. According to deaf, that should be considered evidence of how bad carrying a loaded firearm is instead of bad gunhadling skills. And this fellow had a quality weapon and (I assume) fairly good training, which is supposed to solve this problem, again, according to deaf.
FYI, I've encountered that second round startle reflex shot a number of times when investigating shootings, both with revolvers and autos.

Maybe the 'agenda' driven is more of david's than anyone else.

And the facts I point out, agenda or not, are facts.

Chamber loading under adverse conditions is asking for trouble. Wither cause you have only one hand, or you are grappling, or you short stroke, you still are asking for trouble, and only a few, very narrow categories of circumstances would give reason to carry your weapon in that state.

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Old 01-04-2010, 17:32   #67
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Put me on the spot now Deaf! With the cylinder open, pull the release latch back, that allows the hammer to be cocked, I think, it's a while since I tried that trick.

What my student did was this, sitting on his bench... With six rounds in the cylinder HE COCKED IT! I don't know why, but in lowering the hammer, it went off... TWICE! Like slip, and then yank on the trigger. Two wee tunnels all the way to his locker, under the carpet.

I was paid, and a Glass Beer Mug!



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And david says he is some kind of court expert.

Hmmmm.

Guys on GT, get a Smith 64, empty please, and cock the weapon. Now TRY to open the cylinder! Hmmm don't work so hot, does it?

Now uncock the 64 and open the cylinder. Now with the cylinder open, cock the hammer. Hmmm, don't work so hot either, does it?

In fact, unless THE REVOLVER IS DEFECTIVE, you can't**. So yep, I'd carry that one chamber empty (in fact I wouldn't carry it at all and I think the guy who had the AD is completly innocent.)

But the 'expert', david, thinks it is the way it's supposed to work. Tells you alot, doesn't it?

Maybe the 'agenda' driven is more of david's than anyone else.

Deaf

** actually there IS a way, but it takes some doing and you have to want to bypass the safties.
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Old 01-04-2010, 18:21   #68
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Put me on the spot now Deaf! With the cylinder open, pull the release latch back, that allows the hammer to be cocked, I think, it's a while since I tried that trick.

What my student did was this, sitting on his bench... With six rounds in the cylinder HE COCKED IT! I don't know why, but in lowering the hammer, it went off... TWICE! Like slip, and then yank on the trigger. Two wee tunnels all the way to his locker, under the carpet.

I was paid, and a Glass Beer Mug!
I saw that Scouse after I posted it and figured he cocked the dang piece after he close the cylinder! Yea, no idea why he did that.

You also saw the trick to get past the safties!

Deaf
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:22   #69
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And david says he is some kind of court expert.
Actually the courts have said that. Sort of an independent third-party review, as it were.
Quote:
But the 'expert', david, thinks it is the way it's supposed to work. Tells you alot, doesn't it?
Since David does not think that is the way it is supposed to work, and since David did not say that was the way it was supposed to work, yes, it does tell us a lot but not about David. It tells us a lot about folks with an agenda who make things up instead of dealing with what was actually said.
Quote:
Maybe the 'agenda' driven is more of david's than anyone else.
Hard to argue someone has an agenda when they are advocating each person should do what is best for them in their situation, as opposed to the "everyone needs to do it this way no matter what" perspective.
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And the facts I point out, agenda or not, are facts.
Some are facts, some are not. Where the agenda comes in is the one-sided presentation, without any consideration or even recognition of the other elements that do not support the agenda.

As happens so often, deaf, you have again chosen to go with the "I'm going to make things up and blame it on someone else" school of discussion when you cannot dispute the facts and the reality. And we've seen enough of the presentation, both here and on the other thread, for folks to come to a conclusion. So I'll follow the lead of PhoneCop and be done here. Bye bye.

Last edited by David Armstrong; 01-05-2010 at 11:28..
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:35   #70
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There's no way to know if he would live or die if he had a round in the chamber. But, he would have had a chance to put a few holes in the BG's. I watched the time and most anyone could empty a mag in that amount of time.

Still no garantee he lives, but I would rather have "a" chance than "no" chance. I've seen a lot of videos where the BG's took off running when someone started returning fire.

For me, I'll keep one in the chamber.
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Old 01-07-2010, 21:10   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum 357 View Post
Watch this video:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712

and then ask me why I carry a REVOLVER S&W for self defense!!!!!
More cops have died with revolvers while trying to reload than cops have died with Autos that malfunctioned. Revolvers are a still viable for self defense but they are obsolete. The biggest draw back is slow reload times and a small ammo capacity. They are good for self defense against 1 armed assailant. But if you are out numbered a revolver is a poor choice.
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:32   #72
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More cops have died with revolvers while trying to reload than cops have died with Autos that malfunctioned. Revolvers are a still viable for self defense but they are obsolete. The biggest draw back is slow reload times and a small ammo capacity. They are good for self defense against 1 armed assailant. But if you are out numbered a revolver is a poor choice.
Pat
+1

The Evolution of the one hand gun, single shot pistol, 6 shot revolver, pour in powder to metallic cartridges, the self loader.

The hi-capacity self loader, replace steel with polymer. Then the constant improvement in every which way to the existing company weapons, at this time culminating in things like Fiber Optic sights, triggers with constant release weight and tiny resets, all to give people who carry these one hand fighting tools the best possible chance to staying alive in a confrontation, with one, or multiple assailants, then we talk about regressing to 1800 technology?
The revolver as a main on person carry weapon?

Or removing one of the steps that is built in to the self loading pistols instant readiness? Like deploying with no round in the breach?

MORE IS BETTER ALWAYS, I coined that phrase in the mid 1980s with the advent of the first move towards hi capacity pistols that I felt were viable for use by Police. I have not changed my mind.
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Old 01-08-2010, 18:06   #73
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And that guys is why I recomend if one carries a revolver... they carry TWO. The NY reload is no joke!

Deaf
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Old 01-08-2010, 19:18   #74
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And that guys is why I recommend if one carries a revolver... they carry TWO. The NY reload is no joke!

Deaf
Sorry Deaf!!!! Its all about rolling shots, not 6 and dig up an other gun!
Better, and more skin on grip, better sights, better trigger, better ergonomics, lower center of barrel to height above hand, more weight in hand, etc,etc.
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Old 01-08-2010, 22:33   #75
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Sorry Deaf!!!! Its all about rolling shots, not 6 and dig up an other gun!
Better, and more skin on grip, better sights, better trigger, better ergonomics, lower center of barrel to height above hand, more weight in hand, etc,etc.
Well Scouse, I didn't say a wheelgun was THE pick! My 642 is the secondary, the 26 (Glock) the primary. But if one decides the wheelgun is the way they want to go, then I suggest two!

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Old 01-09-2010, 07:07   #76
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Well Scouse, I didn't say a wheelgun was THE pick! My 642 is the secondary, the 26 (Glock) the primary. But if one decides the wheelgun is the way they want to go, then I suggest two!

Deaf
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Old 01-12-2010, 19:43   #77
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Bring a working gun to a gunfight!

I think the revolver vs auto point is kind of moot (he should have had a rifle). If you watch closely the guy was shot before he cleared leather. Once you're hit you're in survival mode and fine motor skills are now deminished to nonexistant. We obviously can't tell what hit him (likely 9mm judging from the demographic in the room) but he lasted 30 seconds before he collapsed. It looks to me the argument for having the gun ready to go could have kept him from taking more hits, and would have put the bad guys on a defensive posture. The argument against the revolver in this case is supported by both law enforcement and the military. Taking the extra time to reload your revolver puts you at a disadvantage, and makes it difficult to press the fight if you are taking fire from someone with a semi-auto. In so far as hand guns are chiefly defensive weapons revolvers simply make you more so.
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Old 01-13-2010, 16:38   #78
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I like this video better:


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a12360ec7d


Good Guy: 1
Bad Guy: 0

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Old 01-13-2010, 17:53   #79
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I like this video better:


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a12360ec7d


Good Guy: 1
Bad Guy: 0

But... but... but....he didn't rack the slide?

I've seen this vid before. Yes he hit the BG to. Found him down the road I think. Good job. Used two hands to.

Deaf
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Old 01-13-2010, 19:59   #80
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But... but... but....he didn't rack the slide?

I've seen this vid before. Yes he hit the BG too. Found him down the road I think. Good job. Used two hands too.

Deaf
Gee you are right, he had a chambered round, two hands, and eye level... Yes he used the sights (He is an IPSC competitor) but not a gun fighter, pulled the pistol back to his chest on the last shot. He did not keep the follow through.

Liked the sneaky way he pulled the gun.

Found him 100 yards away, he lived, got him in to the operating room real quick.
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