GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-31-2009, 17:04   #1
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Dan Wesson/Fusion CCO comparison with pics.

Well folks I got my newest CCO in a week or two ago. In my way of doing things I waited to look it over and shoot the snot out of it before I said anything about it. The new gun is the Fusion CCO that I ordered about 34 weeks ago. I will compare it with the other newer CCO I just got. They are a close comparison because of their overall size and the features. I spec'ed the Fusion like the DW CCO, or at least I tried too. The only real difference is that the DW is a alloy frame and the Fusion is a steel frame. The DW is 45 ACP and the Fusion is a 38 Super with a extra 9mm fitted barrel.

Here are the two contenders:
1911 Forums

The pics are not very good. I am not a pro pic taker, the wife is. But she told me to buzz off when I asked her to take these pics for me.


The DW finish is a ceramic finish, the Fusion is IONBOND. The pics make both finishes look very dull. The guns are better in person than the pics.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 01-04-2010 at 21:22..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 17:11   #2
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
1911 Forums

The next item I specified was a seriously rounded MSH like the DW. We ,Fusion and I, talked about this. Although the two are different in "roundness" , both guns are very nicely finished.

1911 Forums

Here is a pic of the magwelsl. As you can see the DW is nicely beveled. The Fusion magwell just has the horns knocked off and butt wiped.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 17:25   #3
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Here is a pic of the back of the slides.
1911 Forums

The Fusion sights are adjustable, so they are SUPPOSED to stick up off the slide like that.

Both guns are fitted well. The DW, of all guns has, NO movement. Th DW is alloy, but still has no perceivable movement in the slide to frame fit.
The Fusion has a slight perceivable movement. By no means a rattle box, but if you push on the slide while holding the frame you can feel movement. What does all that movement mean? Not a thing! 95 % of the guns accuracy comes from the barrel and barrel fit. The slide to frame fit is something a novice can check and think he knows something. Slide to frame fit can be used to gauge the excellence of the custom builders "art form". But that is really all it is. Both guns are very tight!
I forgot to take a picture of the barrel hoods and bushings, but you couldn't see much anyway. Both guns have good hood fit and tight bushings.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 17:32   #4
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Now for a few cosmetic points. They are truly cosmetic and do NOT affect the function of the guns.
1911 Forums
1911 Forums

Notice the stamping on both the Fusion barrels is very crude. It almost looks like it was done with a Dremel free handed.
Seriously, look at the "o" in Fusion on the 38 Barrel. WOW.
1911 Forums
1911 Forums

Notice the tool marks on the inside of the Fusion compared to the DW below it.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 01-01-2010 at 03:01..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 17:34   #5
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Notice the nick in the Fusion 9mm barrel face. ( At 9 O'clock)1911 Forums

Hard to see in the pic, but noticeable in person.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 17:47   #6
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
1911 Forums
Here is a ejection port side of the CCO's. Both the slides are clean. The Fusion has no writing and the DW just has a subdued "CCO" on the slide. The Fusion has a very nice recessed and beveled slide stop, the DW does not have this.

I will post more and better pics later.

The range pics may have to wait and so will the range review.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 12-31-2009 at 17:50..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 19:28   #7
SouthpawShootr
NRA Life Member
 
SouthpawShootr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Va
Posts: 5,896
What's the comparison cost-wise? Was the Fusion (say without the extra barrel) cheaper than the DW? If it was, I'd be willing to live with the crappy stamping and the toolmarks. If it was the same or more, I'd be ready to come out of my skin over it.
SouthpawShootr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 19:41   #8
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawShootr View Post
What's the comparison cost-wise? Was the Fusion (say without the extra barrel) cheaper than the DW? If it was, I'd be willing to live with the crappy stamping and the toolmarks. If it was the same or more, I'd be ready to come out of my skin over it.
The DW is out there for 1,200 ish dollars. The Fusion is 1,900 dollars without the extra barrel. I have almost 2,400 in this one.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 01-03-2010 at 00:54..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 20:00   #9
SouthpawShootr
NRA Life Member
 
SouthpawShootr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Va
Posts: 5,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAIL CAESAR View Post
The DW is out there for 1,200 ish dollars. The Fusion is 1,800 dollars without the extra barrel.
For that much of a difference Fusion should have made sure their product had far superior attention to detail. Amazing. I wonder if they even bother to look at what the competition is putting out. So what if it doesn't affect function. Lots of unexpected things there for the money (particularly the barrel face and the tool marks on the slide).

I wonder how bad the price is going to go up on the CCO next year (tomorrow). I kind of want a CCO (though I have yet to see one), but I do have a Para CCW that is exactly the same size, though that's an LDA. I don't get all warm and fuzzy over it. Then again, it ain't going anywhere any time soon.
SouthpawShootr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 20:00   #10
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,099
Very nice comparison pics.

Fusions have really gone up in price.
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 20:07   #11
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawShootr View Post
For that much of a difference Fusion should have made sure their product had far superior attention to detail. Amazing. I wonder if they even bother to look at what the competition is putting out. So what if it doesn't affect function. Lots of unexpected things there for the money (particularly the barrel face and the tool marks on the slide).

I wonder how bad the price is going to go up on the CCO next year (tomorrow). I kind of want a CCO (though I have yet to see one), but I do have a Para CCW that is exactly the same size, though that's an LDA. I don't get all warm and fuzzy over it. Then again, it ain't going anywhere any time soon.
The new Dw CCO's are going up a few hundred dollars. But they are also going from a ceramic finish to a very tough IonBond like finish. They are also making very nice custom changes and using even more barstock parts and still no MIM. So all in all the extra money is well worth it if you have the extra cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
Very nice comparison pics.

Fusions have really gone up in price.
Yes they have. The one I ordered has IonBond finish so that jacks up the price to 1,800 for a single barrel setup.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 20:17   #12
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
A post on another forum asked about the triggers. I'll post about that here too.


The Fusion trigger is a hair heavier than the DW. But at averages of 3.90 pounds it is hard to say the Fusion is heavier. The Fusion has no creep and no over travel. The DW has the very, very slightest of creep and has a average pull of just over 3.5 pounds. The funny thing is the Fusion has a very noticeable heavier mainspring.


I will say that the Fusion has the better trigger pull. I bet this would be really evident if I put a heavier main spring in the DW. But even as the clear loser the DW has a very nice trigger pull.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 02:16   #13
MD357
Senior Member
 
MD357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,886
Cool writeup on CCOs, hard to find info on either of these. For the money, DW has my vote. Not really impressed with the Fusion, just sayin.
MD357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 19:58   #14
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Folks, I am going to stop now. Thank you for all the kind posts, PM's, personal emails, and even phone calls ( wow, word gets around on the web. And I didn't know so may people I know visit here!) But I am going to be making a call Monday morning about a few things.

If anyone wants to see other specific pics of the DW CCO please let me know.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 22:36   #15
GVFlyer
Senior Member
 
GVFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Somewhere in the air.
Posts: 6,553
Detailed and informative comparison, Caesar. Truly excellent.
__________________
The Truth Only Hurts If It Should.

http://www.specialops.org/
GVFlyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 09:17   #16
Rinspeed
JAFO
 
Rinspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 9,785


For that kind of money it's sad the Fusion barrel looks like that. Let us know what he says.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------


You run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking, racing around to come up behind you again, the sun is the same in a relative way but you’re older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death…
Rinspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 10:21   #17
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAIL CAESAR View Post
Notice the nick in the Fusion 9mm barrel face. ( At 9 O'clock)1911 Forums

Hard to see in the pic, but noticeable in person.
That's ridiculous for a gun costing over $1500.
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 12:14   #18
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinspeed View Post
For that kind of money it's sad the Fusion barrel looks like that. Let us know what he says.
I will report back on what the decision is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
That's ridiculous for a gun costing over $1500.
I forgot to write about the tool marks on the face too. But I wish that was all it was.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 12:34   #19
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
edit...bad situation for all.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 01-04-2010 at 21:23..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 12:49   #20
SouthpawShootr
NRA Life Member
 
SouthpawShootr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Chesapeake, Va
Posts: 5,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAIL CAESAR View Post
I will report back on what the decision is.
Only proper response would be a profuse, sincere apology and a call tag. Then making sure this thing is right before it goes back to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAIL CAESAR View Post
I guess its not a BIG deal, but...

.....not a huge deal
No, it wouldn't be a big deal on something like, say, a RIA or Firestorm or any other gun costing $1400 less than this one (even then, most would not be satisfied). Never mind that you specified the gun be a certain way, which it obviously was not. You paid a semi-custom price for a gun that has been put to shame by a production gun costing 1/3 less.

On another note: I got to stay away from gunshops, that DW CCO is really giving me an itch. I got a funny feeling if I see one, it might follow me home.
SouthpawShootr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 12:57   #21
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawShootr View Post
Only proper response would be a profuse, sincere apology and a call tag. Then making sure this thing is right before it goes back to you.



No, it wouldn't be a big deal on something like, say, a RIA or Firestorm or any other gun costing $1400 less than this one (even then, most would not be satisfied). Never mind that you specified the gun be a certain way, which it obviously was not. You paid a semi-custom price for a gun that has been put to shame by a production gun costing 1/3 less.

On another note: I got to stay away from gunshops, that DW CCO is really giving me an itch. I got a funny feeling if I see one, it might follow me home.
Thank you for all the support fellas! I appreciate it.

I really appreciate Bac not tearing my guts out over this. I have defended Fusion NUMEROUS times on here. But this is by far the worst one I have ever seen, unfortunately....it is mine.
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 12:59   #22
bac1023
Senior Member
 
bac1023's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 87,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAIL CAESAR View Post
-Hammer not as specified.
-MSH not as specified.
-Barrels not IonBonded. Although that mayyyyy be my fault.
-Barrels have crude markings for caliber. (I guess its not a BIG deal, but..)
-1 barrel has markings and divot on face.
-Slide has many tool marks. Like pictured above and down the barrel tunnel.
-Thumb safety is weirdly stuck out from frame ( never seen anything like it) and the
safety pad looks bent inward causing it to rub plunger tube with enough force to already take the IonBond off.
-Magwell is badly beveled. Barely beveled on sides and not at all in back ( not a huge deal)
-frame was carry beveled up on frame rails in back.?? (Look at pic)
-Slide was carry beveled. Looks like they did one side, then the other side and met in the front. Too bad it doesn't match and were it meets up front is off, with more bevel on one side.
-Mag release used to stick. Had to push it from the other side to get it to go back. After working with oil it it no longer sticks, just feels very gritty with "catches".


I haven't tore the frame down yet...kind of afraid too.

Caesar, without having read the entire thread, have you contacted Bob Serva.

My Fusion has been fine, but I'd be furious if I were you.
bac1023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 13:04   #23
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
edit...bad situation for all.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 01-04-2010 at 21:25..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 13:11   #24
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
edit...bad situation for all.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 01-04-2010 at 21:24..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 13:13   #25
HAIL CAESAR
Senior Member
 
HAIL CAESAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In my shop
Posts: 5,230
edit...bad situation for all.

Last edited by HAIL CAESAR; 01-04-2010 at 21:24..
HAIL CAESAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:31.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,019
275 Members
744 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42