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Old 01-07-2010, 01:25   #1
Austinite
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.357 Mag 158 XTP vs. small whitetail

I shot a small (71 lbs dressed) doe at the family ranch with a S&W 6" 686. The load I used was Fiocchi's 158 XTP. Range was 22 yards. Please understand that 71 pounds is an above average doe in our neck of the woods (average mature doe size is ~68 pounds).

The shot was nearly perfectly broadside. The doe buckled strongly to the shot, ran 35 yards, and crashed to the ground. I could see where she fell so I walked up to her and put her down and she was breathing her last.

The bullet entered her right side shoulder just behind the leg bone. The bullet continued throught he ribcage and exited the offside shoulder. Exit hold was also just behind the leg bone. I'd estimate bullet penetration in the 12" range. Heart was destroyed. How much the bullet wound have continued to penetrate? Who knows. There was some blood shot tissue, especially in the area between the front shoulders and the rib cage. In the attached pics, the front leg was extended southward as the deer was hanging by its rear feet.

Bottom line: I'm very pleased with the penetration. Expansion was NOT dramatic at all which is to be expected with this caliber/weight combo in .357. I wish I'd have put some type of reference in the photos to show their size. I'd estimate the exit hole was between .45 and .50. This load shoots lights out from my revolver and penetrates like crazy so it will continue to be my deer load.

I've got two photos uploaded below and all four in my profile. I'm still working on this photo attachment thing.
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Caliber Corner - Click for larger version   Caliber Corner - Click for larger version  

Last edited by Austinite; 01-07-2010 at 01:50..
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:37   #2
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Hey there, welcome to GT.


Thanks for posting these pics. I run around in the Rockies quite a bit with a 686 and some handloaded 158 XTP's. About the same results as I've seen... not a ton of expansion, but they dig pretty deep.


ETA: as far as posting pictures goes, get a photobucket account, upload them there, hit the picture icon here, then paste in the URL from your picture... PM me if you need help.

Last edited by Zombie Steve; 01-07-2010 at 01:40..
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:32   #3
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Yeah those hollowpoints really need some velocity to expand, which is good for hunting really. Less likely the bullet is going to fragment to pieces on you. Nice shot and congratulations on your freezer semi full of meat!
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:59   #4
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Thanks for the excellent post.

Seems that the XTP performed as advertised. You got deep (through and through) penetration accomapnied by what was, most likely, moderate expansion, although the exit wound is not a relaible indicator of this aspect of performance.

I've used the 9mm 147 gr. XTP JHP, fired from my Glock 17, to take similar and larger sized whitetail deer with similar results and satisfaction.

Congrats!
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:54   #5
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Has anyone killed a deer with a .45 APC? What were the results?
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:27   #6
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Most APC's use a different mechanism to kill deer; Blunt force trauma, crushing bones...etc.












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Old 01-07-2010, 12:12   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleiku68 View Post
Has anyone killed a deer with a .45 APC? What were the results?
Well if they killed a deer with it wouldn't the result be that the deer was dead?

I haven't used a .45 ACP, but I have used a .45 Colt on deer. It kills them just fine with a properly placed shot.

I've also shot deer with a .44 mag at distances where the bullet was slowing down almost to .45 ACP range. They didn't run more than 20 yards.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:20   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berto View Post
Most APC's use a different mechanism to kill deer; Blunt force trauma, crushing bones...etc.





Maybe pleiku68 has a really, really, really, really, really, small APC.
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Old 01-07-2010, 16:57   #9
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".45 APC" ..... For a minute, I thought that Glock came out with yet another .45 caliber in between a "GAP" and an "ACP". J/K
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Old 01-07-2010, 21:56   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleiku68 View Post
Has anyone killed a deer with a .45 APC? What were the results?
These 240gr Sierra JHCs feed well in both of my Colt 1911s in .45auto (mid 800s), knocking on 1100fps out of this S&W M25-2;
Caliber Corner

Caliber Corner

Their .4515" diameter allows for these Sierra bullets to do double duty in .45 Colt and .45 acp (automatic Colt pistol).

Some handloaders have experienced excellent terminal performance on hogs with 250gr/255gr Keith design hardcast bullets in their 1911s.

Pleiku RVN was a tough place in '68 . . .

Bob
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:46   #11
pleiku68
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Sorry about getting my letters reversed (Apc instead of ACP) It is bad to get old. Bob-You are right about Pleiku. I was there from Jan.1,1968( just before the battle of TET) to Dec. 25,1968. I worked with the Montagnards.
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Old 01-08-2010, 14:13   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleiku68 View Post
Has anyone killed a deer with a .45 APC? What were the results?

I hear ya Hoss. I get things turned around all the time 45apc acp pca
I knew what ya meant.

I do not reccomend the 45acp or the 9mm. Is it doable ? yes. I just don't reccomend it, and believe we are better served with a 44mag 45LC etc. 357Mag will take deer, and the XTP bullet the OP mentions for the 357 is a good bullet choice. It is also a good choice for the 45acp. I use cast bullets in all my hanguns for hunting and heavy for caliber. E.G. 200gr cast for the 357mag. 250/300gr for the 44mag/45LC. I will say this. The XTP is about the only other bullet I load for outside of the hard cast for hunting. It gets good deep penetration, and that is what i am looking. Not, a fast expanding bullet that does not reach the vitals...

So Yes. You can take deer with the 45acp. I would suggest a 50yd. max, and especially if you are new to hand gun hunting, and with this caliber, even if your not new. I do prefer to load up with a Beartooth hard cast bullet though, and to let you know they have went through both shoulders on deer at 50yds. 1911 45acp

Just would rather encourage you to think on the 44mag. Put 44 specials in the 44mag,and they will shoot softer for ya if you have a recoil problem. I have 44special loads with both 255 and 300gr cast bullets that wil take elk at 100 yds. so even some of the factory loads for the 44sp will be more than fine for deer.

If you 'must" use the 45acp. Use a heavy bullet in XTP if you do not reload and stay 50yds and under. If you are a good hunter, and a good shot, and know what your doing, and place the shot (i reccomend lungs here), you will be fine.

There are other options, loads etc. I have just given you a quick example...


Good luck
Good hunting



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Old 01-08-2010, 18:23   #13
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Put that bad boy in a .357 carbine and (to quote Foghorn Leghorn) "Watch it fizz!" I have some Georgia Arms "Deerstopper" and Buffalo Bore 158gr loads that *should* be pushing 2000+fps from my Marlin.
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:12   #14
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Howdy pleiku68,

Quote:
Originally Posted by pleiku68 View Post
Has anyone killed a deer with a .45 APC? What were the results?
I have killed a deer with a 1911A1 .45acp.

It was a 4 point buck and I shot him from about 35yds. After the first shot he took a step and I shot him again. He was walking slowly broadsided to and I shot him behind the left shoulder with both rounds.

I first one would have killed him, but since he did not react to the first shot, I shot him again.

I was use my own handload using a Hornady 200gr XTP-HP over Blue Dot that ran about 1,100ft/sec out of my Norinco 1911A1.

Paul
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