GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-02-2010, 19:56   #1
TWS G26
Senior Member
 
TWS G26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 1,080


PHOTOS - .40 S&W expanded bullets; test w/wet newspaper jugs and denim

Posting photos of expanded bullets from some of my recent tests with wet newspaper jugs and denim. The cartridges were provided by GT's DRT, who asked that I provide these photos...I'm just a few weeks behind in doing so. The cartridges tested were HST 180 gr, Gold Dot 165 gr, and Ranger T 165 gr. The test gun was a Glock 22.

The links for all three tests are posted here in Caliber Corner. A search for "video" and "tnoutdoors9" or "TWS G26" should get them all. The respective posts will show the link to each video of the test on YouTube.

Caliber Corner

Caliber Corner
__________________
SHOOTING VIDEOS and AMMO TESTING:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
TWS G26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 23:02   #2
hurley842002
Senior Member
 
hurley842002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Parker, Co
Posts: 335
Wow, that 180gr HST is very impressive. I've watched all of your videos (great vids by the way), and it certainly appears the heavy for the caliber HST's would be a very good choice.
hurley842002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 23:36   #3
Renceri
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wildomar,CA
Posts: 117
Hst 180gr is the clear winner.nice pics and vids.can you test also the hst .40 155gr in your next videos.thanks.
Renceri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 23:47   #4
SDGlock23
Glockoholic
 
SDGlock23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of Forgetfulness
Posts: 7,781
Nice pics, I think the 165grn Ranger has a lot of potential and deserves a re-do. It's a fantastic load but unfortunately only half expanded in your test for some reason.
__________________
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
SDGlock23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2010, 23:53   #5
hurley842002
Senior Member
 
hurley842002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Parker, Co
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
Nice pics, I think the 165grn Ranger has a lot of potential and deserves a re-do. It's a fantastic load but unfortunately only half expanded in your test for some reason.
When I carry .40, this is my round of choice. I did a test with just water in milk jugs, and the end result was very good. Obviously the difference in Media along with the denim, would produce different results, however I have to agree, another test or two and I think the results may be different. As much as those HST's impress me, the same thing could have happened to them. Just goes to show, any type of bullet can and will malfunction from time to time.
hurley842002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 00:46   #6
Ak.Hiker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Homer Alaska
Posts: 2,335
I like the deep penetration of the 165 grain Gold Dot. Reminds me more of an XTP. The HST design sure does expand. Lots of good choices depending on your needs in the 40 S&W.
Ak.Hiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 01:30   #7
DRT
Senior Member
 
DRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,350
Thx TWS G26. Your HST and Gold Dot results closely mirror results from my own testing. The Ranger Tseries did fair better in my testing, however. For reference, here's where I posted pictures of my test results.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157528

Here's ATK's data for comparison, HST vs Gold Dot. Since ATK makes both brands there should be no reason for bias.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf

The .40 180gr HST penetrates >12", expands reliably and large, and even holds together through various intermediate barriers, including glass.

I agree that the Ranger T series results are interesting. For me, it's been very reliable through denim, even out of a G27. Maybe I'll send some more Ranger Tseries to TWS, along with a few 165gr HSTs, when the weather breaks if he's interested in additional testing.

Last edited by DRT; 01-03-2010 at 01:45..
DRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 01:51   #8
DRT
Senior Member
 
DRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002 View Post
Wow, that 180gr HST is very impressive. I've watched all of your videos (great vids by the way), and it certainly appears the heavy for the caliber HST's would be a very good choice.

I agree. Heavy-for-the-caliber HST and Ranger Tseries are top choices. They offer reliable performance through various intermediate barriers. They penetrate acceptably, open reliably, and hold together better than the lightweight, faster versions.
DRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 07:02   #9
glocksterr
DirtyGlockHippy
 
glocksterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NC,USA
Posts: 1,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002 View Post
When I carry .40, this is my round of choice. I did a test with just water in milk jugs, and the end result was very good. Obviously the difference in Media along with the denim, would produce different results, however I have to agree, another test or two and I think the results may be different.
can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera, can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera ? NOPE!





Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002 View Post
As much as those HST's impress me, the same thing could have happened to them.
really?


what proof can you offer that suggests it can? or, is it just the fact your sitting on a mess of ammo you need to feel good about?
glocksterr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 12:15   #10
hurley842002
Senior Member
 
hurley842002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Parker, Co
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by glocksterr View Post
can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera, can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera ? NOPE!




really?


what proof can you offer that suggests it can? or, is it just the fact your sitting on a mess of ammo you need to feel good about?
Unclear as to what the first line of rambling is supposed to mean, and
Not sure why you would be asking for proof, as I clearly said it COULD happen, not that it WOULD happen or that i've seen it happen. I was merely pointing out the fact, that one test does not show the HST to be superior to the Winchester or vice versa. For your information I have zero HST's, 50 165gr Ranger T's, and my typical carry round is Speer GD 125gr 357sig. The only thing I need to feel good about, is how accurate I am with my pistol, and I feel very good about that.
hurley842002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 13:43   #11
sharpshooter
Member
 
sharpshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NV
Posts: 5,206
Why 4 layers of denim? Who wears 4 layers of denim? Is this test supposed to replicate real life?
sharpshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 14:00   #12
DRT
Senior Member
 
DRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter View Post
Why 4 layers of denim? Who wears 4 layers of denim? Is this test supposed to replicate real life?

I know that this question has been answered a number of times before but here you go...

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tact...2/0604-02a.htm

In summary, bullets that passed the FBI's heavy clothing test occassionally failed to expand in real life so this more difficult protocol was established. Bullets that reliably expand through 4 layers of denim followed by 10% ballistics gelatin have demonstrated more robust expansion and superior terminal performance in the real world.

Last edited by DRT; 01-03-2010 at 14:54..
DRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 14:36   #13
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 22,216
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by glocksterr View Post
can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera, can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera ? NOPE!




really?


what proof can you offer that suggests it can? or, is it just the fact your sitting on a mess of ammo you need to feel good about?
Test 10rds & see if they all look the same. You'll find some will be diff. especially from diff lots. I've tested the very same 165grGD & gotten better results than shown. To think ANY bullet/ammo is going to be 100% from shot to shot is just a bit nieve.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 14:39   #14
DRT
Senior Member
 
DRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Test 10rds & see if they all look the same. You'll find some will be diff. especially from diff lots. I've tested the very same 165grGD & gotten better results than shown. To think ANY bullet/ammo is going to be 100% from shot to shot is just a bit nieve.
I don't think TWS's results are out of the ordinary. I've tested 165gr Gold Dot on several occassions, from different lots, and my results were similar to those above. It's also interesting to note that speer's own ballistics data for 165gr gold dot through 4 layers of denim shows nearly identical expansion at .583". Check out the link that I posted above.

Did you test through 4 layers of denim? If so, can you post pics of the projectiles?

Last edited by DRT; 01-03-2010 at 14:50..
DRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 14:57   #15
glocksterr
DirtyGlockHippy
 
glocksterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NC,USA
Posts: 1,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002 View Post
Unclear as to what the first line of rambling is supposed to mean, and
Not sure why you would be asking for proof, as I clearly said it COULD happen, not that it WOULD happen or that i've seen it happen. I was merely pointing out the fact, that one test does not show the HST to be superior to the Winchester or vice versa. For your information I have zero HST's, 50 165gr Ranger T's, and my typical carry round is Speer GD 125gr 357sig. The only thing I need to feel good about, is how accurate I am with my pistol, and I feel very good about that.

my bad!


if your going to test more than one, seems the proper thing to do its test like 5 and take a looksie.


proof?

you could call it that. i guess what im getting @ is your statement "the same thing could have happened to them."


what makes you say it could or would happen. if you have such knowledge, ok. or is it "the same thing could have happened to them." because i say so?
glocksterr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 15:58   #16
hurley842002
Senior Member
 
hurley842002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Parker, Co
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by glocksterr View Post
proof?

you could call it that. i guess what im getting @ is your statement "the same thing could have happened to them."


what makes you say it could or would happen. if you have such knowledge, ok. or is it "the same thing could have happened to them." because i say so?
First off, let me make myself clear, so there is no confusion. I don't prefer the Ranger T's over the HST or vice versa. Provided both rounds are reliable in my pistol, I would have NO problem carrying either of them for personal protection. The only brand of the two that I currently have are 165gr 40s&w Ranger T's, and they are the only brand of the two that I have done any sort of "backyard testing" with.

There is a huge difference between the phrases "Could" and "Would". I said "the same thing COULD have happened to them." I don't have knowledge of HST's not expanding properly, COULD it happen? Probably, and that is just me saying so, which I don't think is too harsh of a statement towards the HST.
hurley842002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 19:37   #17
TWS G26
Senior Member
 
TWS G26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 1,080


Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Thx TWS G26. Your HST and Gold Dot results closely mirror results from my own testing. The Ranger Tseries did fair better in my testing, however. For reference, here's where I posted pictures of my test results.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157528

Here's ATK's data for comparison, HST vs Gold Dot. Since ATK makes both brands there should be no reason for bias.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf

The .40 180gr HST penetrates >12", expands reliably and large, and even holds together through various intermediate barriers, including glass.

I agree that the Ranger T series results are interesting. For me, it's been very reliable through denim, even out of a G27. Maybe I'll send some more Ranger Tseries to TWS, along with a few 165gr HSTs, when the weather breaks if he's interested in additional testing.

DRT, if you want to send more ammo, I'm up for it. No rush, as it's too cold here for testing. I'm using studio lights for filming in the garage this time of year and at 500 watts each, they get hot fast and don't like frigid temps...burned up one today. With regard to .40, I just received some 180 gr Gold Dots from someone local and will test those once the weather breaks somewhat.
__________________
SHOOTING VIDEOS and AMMO TESTING:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
TWS G26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 20:16   #18
DWARREN123
Grumpy Old Guy
 
DWARREN123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CLARKSVILLE TN
Posts: 4,816
If you are hit in the right place with enough of them I do not believe it will matter which one was used.
I do like 180gr bullets for the 40 S&W.
DWARREN123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2010, 21:52   #19
thegriz18
Paper Killer
 
thegriz18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Friend Zone
Posts: 3,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
Nice pics, I think the 165grn Ranger has a lot of potential and deserves a re-do. It's a fantastic load but unfortunately only half expanded in your test for some reason.
I agree. I did the same test using wet pack. I fired 10 rounds. Five through bare wet pack and five through 4 layer denim. All of them expanded as advertised.
__________________
‘‘To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...’’
— Richard Henry Lee, 1787
thegriz18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 07:07   #20
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Stupid question... but what is a HST? Sincerely. Brucev.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:20.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 684
159 Members
525 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31