[youngbuck]

Just got home from a gun show and purchased one of only two boxes I saw at the whole show of Corbon 135gr jhp's. I never knew of any .40 putting up 1325 velocity and 526 energy. With those kind of numbers should I place much emphasis on over penetration or just view it as .357sig style numbers in a gun I actually own?

http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defen...20/100/Product

[MTS532]

Just got home from a gun show and purchased one of only two boxes I saw at the whole show of Corbon 135gr jhp's. I never knew of any .40 putting up 1325 velocity and 526 energy. With those kind of numbers should I place much emphasis on over penetration or just view it as .357sig style numbers in a gun I actually own?

What is your intended purpose with these rounds?

[SDGlock23]

I've heard good things about 135gr .40's in actual shootings, but keep in mind it is a light for weight load and you won't have to worry about over penetration. That's an average velocity for the 135gr .40, but if you pay attention, you'll see that there are very few 135gr offerings anywhere for the .40, it's not a real popular choice. Federal is the only big ammo maker to offer 135gr loads and they're loaded light. CorBon is about the only company I know of that makes the standard velocity 135gr .40.

[carbofan21]

Originally Posted by youngbuck

Just got home from a gun show and purchased one of only two boxes I saw at the whole show of Corbon 135gr jhp's. I never knew of any .40 putting up 1325 velocity and 526 energy. With those kind of numbers should I place much emphasis on over penetration or just view it as .357sig style numbers in a gun I actually own?

http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defen...20/100/Product

any 135 grain JHP is likely to underpenetrate, but particularly the corbon as a lot of their loads have a tendency to fragment. if i still owned anything in .40, that's one of the last loads i would choose for self defense.

see if you can find some 180 grain federal HST or 180 grain winchester ranger T (talon). either of these loads will penetrate adequately, get good expansion, and follow-up shots will be fast and easy

[MarkCO]

I tested the 135 Cor-Bon against the others. Penetration is less than a good 155, 165 or 180.

http://dfuse.us/g27loadtest.html

Of the 135s, you picked a poor one. Of .40 loads in general, one of the poorest.

[MTS532]

any 135 grain JHP is likely to underpenetrate, but particularly the corbon as a lot of their loads have a tendency to fragment. if i still owned anything in .40, that's one of the last loads i would choose for self defense

Agreed.

It would be hard to pick a worse load for self defense. Check out the links on my signature for better loads.

Don't pick a self defense loads based on kinetic energy or velocity numbers. That is the sure sign of someone who knows nothing about terminal ballistics.

[Ak.Hiker]

I would not under estimate what the 135 grain CorBon load can do when used for SD. Do you really think that CorBon would market the 135 grain load for as many years as they have if it was a poor performer. Ted Nugent has used the 135 grain bullet in the 10mm for game shooting with good results. It has always run good in my Glocks.

[youngbuck]

Originally Posted by MTS532

Don't pick a self defense loads based on kinetic energy or velocity numbers. That is the sure sign of someone who knows nothing about terminal ballistics.

So what am I supposed to look for in order to know what kind of ammo is good for my self defense?

[Steel Head]

Research-Form an opinion-stick to the plan
There's TONS of data available
From the data find what you want/need
Get the ammunition that you think is needed
The 135's are WICKED on coyotes/crows

For Defend the Fort-the data pointed me to 180gr bonded JHP

[youngbuck]

Mr. Steel Head... I am trying to research and ask questions often to form a plan that works for me but I fail to recognize how using the information placed on an ammo box is a wrong way to help determine how to choose ammo? If thats the case then somebody please point me to the correct info used to determine my decisions.

[carbofan21]

just place your order, a few boxes of each while it's cheap, and more importantly, available... no need to thank me later

http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/td...ST1__50_ROUNDS

http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/td...S_W_180grn_SXT

[Ak.Hiker]

Originally Posted by youngbuck

Mr. Steel Head... I am trying to research and ask questions often to form a plan that works for me but I fail to recognize how using the information placed on an ammo box is a wrong way to help determine how to choose ammo? If thats the case then somebody please point me to the correct info used to determine my decisions.

While energy info is useful there are many other factors involved in picking a SD load. The CorBon 135 grain load has more energy than a Speer Gold Dot 180 grain load but if you were looking for a load that penetrated deep and kept most of its weight than the Speer load while having less energy would be the better choice. Most full power 125 grain 357 Magnum JHP loads have more energy than the Federal 180 grain Cast Core load in the same caliber. If you were in need of a deep penetrating load for protection from heavy boned animals than the Cast Core load would be a better choice than the JHP due to the solid bullets ability to break heavy bones and keep on going into the vitals. Picking a load with a bullet that is designed for your needs is an important piece when picking a SD load.

[MTS532]

So what am I supposed to look for in order to know what kind of ammo is good for my self defense?

Youngbuck:

Click on some of the links shown here for more information, but this will get you started.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads

As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm.

Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

[Steel Head]

the info on the box is worthless-If the box has a gimmicky name it's coyote ammo at best
The above list will steer you in the right direction
Ft lbs-BLAH
Fps-BLAH
Wonder heat seeking bullets-BLAH
It's about a solid combination/compromise of speed,weight,and expansion

look for the 40 tests on this sight and others-same on you tube-also the above links are good

[PghJim]

It is old data, but the 135 grain 40 cal Corbon is said to have an 89% one shot stopping power.

http://www.handloads.org/misc/stoppi...=11&Weight=All

[MTS532]

It is old data, but the 135 grain 40 cal Corbon is said to have an 89% one shot stopping power

.
On second thought, maybe the information on the box is more trustworthy than information gathered from such questionable sources.

[Snowman92D]

Originally Posted by carbofan21

any 135 grain JHP is likely to underpenetrate, but particularly the corbon as a lot of their loads have a tendency to fragment.

They perhaps fragment in ballistic gell-o, but it's not the same in human targets.

South Bend PD adopted the 135-grain Cor-Bon .40 S&W a long time ago as their issued duty load. They wanted a semi-auto cartridge that duplicated the performance of their previously-issued revolver load, a 125-grain .357 magnum jhp, which they'd found to be highly effective in street shootings.

Their preliminary testing showed that the 135-grain Cor-Bon came the closest to duplicating their revolver ammo, and that was the round they selected. They've had about a dozen shootings with the 135-grain Cor-Bon .40 S&W and the ammo has been extremely effective in terminating criminal violence. So much so that handgun performance is simply a non-issue with their agency.

There is no 1-to-1 relationship between shooting gell-o and shooting violent people. Gel testing is an excellent method of doing preliminary testing of defensive ammo, but the final decision must be made on street results that haven't been cherry-picked to support someone's agenda.

[Ak.Hiker]

Sounds like the 135 grain CorBon would not be a bad pick as a SD carry load after all.

[glock20c10mm]

Originally Posted by youngbuck

Just got home from a gun show and purchased one of only two boxes I saw at the whole show of Corbon 135gr jhp's. I never knew of any .40 putting up 1325 velocity and 526 energy. With those kind of numbers should I place much emphasis on over penetration or just view it as .357sig style numbers in a gun I actually own?

The 526 ft-lbs only tells part of the story in terms of penetration depth. Exactly the reason 135gr Nosler bullets don't penetrate very far from the 10mm at 1600fps and 767 ft-lbs. You also have to figure bullet constuction into the equation.

That said, as has been mentioned by Snowman92D and AK.Hiker, the Corbon load you picked up is probably a very good performer overall. And, in the 40, I think is a particularily good choice with the right bullet design, and the Cor-Bon bullets seem to fit the bill fine.

Good Shooting,
Craig

[Brucev]

Just got home from a gun show and purchased one of only two boxes I saw at the whole show of Corbon 135gr jhp's. I never knew of any .40 putting up 1325 velocity and 526 energy. With those kind of numbers should I place much emphasis on over penetration or just view it as .357sig style numbers in a gun I actually own?

Speed and energy figures are not reliable predictors of performance. That having been said, the ammo you bought should do just fine for SD/HD. Of course it might not be the best choice if you anticipate having to shoot through car doors, etc. Back in a different day and age, I saw a man who had been shot to pieces with 125 gr. JHP's fired from a .357 Magnum at a distance of about 8-9 feet. It was the biggest mess I've ever seen. I would think that those 135 gr. Corbon loads would be at least as effective. For use at distances from hard off the barrel out to say 15-20 yds., the Corbon ammo should produce very good results. Later on after you've had time to get your knowledge on, you may want to consider a heavier bullet. Something around 155-165 gr. will give a good combination of velocity (important if one expects a hollow point to open) and penetration (important as the bullet must reach vital internal organs if it is to be effective) and energy (function of bullet weight and velocity) and manageable recoil (important given the need to be able to fire rapid accurate follow-up shots). At the far end of the scale, the 180 gr. loads offered by Winchester, Speer, Federal, etc., will offer better potential penetration. The velocity and energy levels will not be as high as that quoted for the Corbon 135 gr. load, but many multiple tests indicate that these loads produce extremely good expansion and multiple reports indicate that in actual use these loads are extremely effective.

[vafish]

Originally Posted by youngbuck

So what am I supposed to look for in order to know what kind of ammo is good for my self defense?

The most important thing in self defense ammo is reliable functioning in your gun.

I have no problem with the Corbon 135 gr. .40 S+W load. I tend to prefer lighter weight for caliber bullets and I carry a 115 gr +P+ 9MM. My local PD with 2,000 sworn officers has used the same round for many years and is very happy with it's performance in actual shootings.

What I do have a problem with is you buying 1 box of 20 rounds of defensive ammo and trusting your life to it without knowing if it will function in your gun.

If you are going to carry a gun to protect your life that gun needs to go bang every time, and you need to test the ammo and make sure it works in your gun. I wouldn't trust that ammo in my gun until I had fired at least 100-200 rounds through it.

Back when I carried a Glock 36 I tried some new wonder JHP's (I won't mention the brand) The gun had been 100% reliable with every load I had tried in it. The ammo was expensive and I didn't want to buy 200 rounds to test it out. I figured I was OK because it was premium ammo from a major manufacturer. After a few months I decided to fire off my carry ammo at the range. It jammed on every single round I fired. Would not feed a single round into the chamber when fired even though they fed just fine by hand. My G36 was a single shot. I went back to carrying Winchester White Box JHP's because I knew they were 100% reliable in my gun.

[Ticman]

Double Tap loads a 135 grain 40 cal that according to them run at 1375fps. It comes in 50 count boxes and is much cheaper than BB.

[LEAD]

Originally Posted by carbofan21

any 135 grain JHP is likely to underpenetrate, but particularly the corbon as a lot of their loads have a tendency to fragment. if i still owned anything in .40, that's one of the last loads i would choose for self defense.

see if you can find some 180 grain federal HST or 180 grain winchester ranger T (talon). either of these loads will penetrate adequately, get good expansion, and follow-up shots will be fast and easy

Where are some sources or examples of Cor-bon having poor weight retention? Especially with the DPX line, Cor-bon, to my knowledge has always kept weight as good as the competition.

I've always felt 165gr offerings by Federal and Winchester outdid their 18ogr equivalents. Although the 180s can penetrate deeper, the 165s make a nastier wound and impact targets more violently.

I say this not accusing you of being incorrect, but instead pointing out my differing opinions and understanding on the subjects.

[cowboywannabe]

i guess most folks on here are concerned with having to shoot through car doors, garbage cans, mail boxes, ect......

i can say with a fair amount of certainty based on my experience that any convensional h.p. round from a .38spl on up will penetrate more than enough on a non barriered human torso unless the suspect is obese or exceptionally muscled.

i just worked a homicide a few days ago where wwb .32 acp flat nose FMJ went through the back muscles, ribs, lung, heart, ribs, and came to rest just under the skin on the other side of an average sized male.

penetration is very important, expansion is somewhere on the list, but shot placement is far more primary on what will determine the success of any round used.

135gr. .40s&w? why the hell not. unless youre a cop where the obsticle of intermediate barriers is a very good possiblity opposed to a just in case improbability....

i want to add that ballistic gelotin is homogenous and the human body well it is not. 12" of pen. in gello is not the same as 12" pen. in a human torso.

[Snowman92D]

Originally Posted by LEAD

Where are some sources or examples of Cor-bon having poor weight retention?

You're gonna be waiting a long time on this one.

The only sources or examples available are from contrived gell-o tests. That's where all the Kool-Aid hype comes from about under-penetration.

Honestly, it's hard to find a "bad" .40 S&W jhp load if you're talking about defensive shooting. They all work really well if you do your part.