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Old 12-06-2009, 20:52   #1
USMC03Grunt
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00 Buck...9 pellet or 12?

In the military, we use 9 pellet Winchester buckshot but I've been loading with 12 pellet Federal shells. Any advantage of the 9 pellet loads over the 12?
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Old 12-06-2009, 21:09   #2
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larger pellets
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Old 12-06-2009, 22:05   #3
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Umm..no. #00 is #00, regardless of the amount of pellets in the shell.

The 12 pellet load generally offer poor pattern performance.
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Old 12-06-2009, 22:38   #4
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see which patterns better, and go with that.
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Old 12-06-2009, 22:52   #5
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When I started my career our load was Remington 2 3/4" magnum 00 buck which has 12 pellets. Once more females can on board and were having difficulty qualifying, the state went to standard 2 3/4" 00 which is 9 pellet. At close ranges I feel the magnum loads were a disadvantage due to the recoil making it slower to get back on target. However, with the recoil reducing stocks of today that is not an issue. I wish we had those back then. So it comes down to what is the intended use of the load. For HD the magnum loads are over kill, no pun intended. I would avoid them for HD. For duty, hell yes, with a Mesa or knoxx stock recoil is not an issue and they even seem to work better with the heavy load. It just makes sence in a gun fight to put more lead out there. One of those extra pellets may be the one that ends the threat against you.
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Old 12-07-2009, 18:35   #6
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Have used RR 9 pellet 00 for a few years. Recently went to RR 8 pellet 00. Much tighter pattern. Try some, you might be pleasantly surprised...
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Old 12-07-2009, 19:27   #7
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3 more pellets down range your responsible for
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Old 12-07-2009, 19:29   #8
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For pattern density I don't think anything can beat Federal's load. It is far better than Remington or Winchester.
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Old 12-07-2009, 19:40   #9
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3 more pellets down range your responsible for
It's also 3 more wound tracts. My 870 and S12 both shoot Federal Flight Control the best, but S&B 12 pellet 00 also patterns well out of either, as well or better than other standard 00 loads.
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Old 12-07-2009, 20:27   #10
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Like it was said before, see which one patterns better. Out of my 870P with 18.5" VCS IC barrel, the Federal Vital Shok 12 pellet 00BK produced a group several inches smaller than the Remington or Winchester 9 pellet 00BK. Out of a unmodified 18.5" MOD choke barrel Remington 12 pellet 00BK did significantly worse than Remington 9 pellet 00BK.
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Old 12-08-2009, 14:29   #11
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Why not 15 pellets?

Winchester Super X has em in 3" Magnum Loads.
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Old 12-08-2009, 14:45   #12
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For HD I use mainly 0 buck which has 12 - .32 caliber pellets and #4 buck which has 27- .24 caliber pellets -

I also have a few 000 buck around for a rainy day which is 8 - .36 caliber.

Nothing scientific in it - but doesn't

27 - .24 caliber
12 - .32 caliber
8 - .36 caliber

Just seem better than 9 - .33 caliber

Give up .01 per pellet but add 3 pellets

Give up 1 pellet add .03 per pellet

The #4 buck was used when I was going through a - I don't want over penetration through the walls phase -

Last edited by Z71bill; 12-08-2009 at 19:08..
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Old 12-08-2009, 16:17   #13
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Good tips, I'm not sure I would have thought to pattern Buckshot at HD distances. I now know better. In my younger years I just would have stocked up on the hottest super zingy 3" magnum's and not thought a thing about it. Now my concern is absolute control of the weapon and quick follow-up shots if needed.
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Old 12-08-2009, 16:31   #14
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Buckshot is going to do some major damage no matter how many pellets you're using.
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Old 12-09-2009, 14:17   #15
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Howdy Z71bill,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
For HD I use mainly 0 buck which has 12 - .32 caliber pellets and #4 buck which has 27- .24 caliber pellets -

I also have a few 000 buck around for a rainy day which is 8 - .36 caliber.

Nothing scientific in it - but doesn't

27 - .24 caliber
12 - .32 caliber
8 - .36 caliber

Just seem better than 9 - .33 caliber

Give up .01 per pellet but add 3 pellets

Give up 1 pellet add .03 per pellet

The #4 buck was used when I was going through a - I don't want over penetration through the walls phase -
One thing to remember is back to the birdshot thingy.......The bigger the shot, the better the penetration.

Individual "OOO" pellets will penetrate things that "OO" will not. Same with "O", #1, and especially #4 buckshot.

To me #4 buckshot is totally useless. The same arguements that everybody uses against using birdshot is the same one I use for #4 buckshot.

If you are going to use buckshot of HD, use the biggest and baddest round you can buy.

I have some old Fed. Premium 2 3/4" "OOO" that keeps all 8 pellets on an IDPA target at 40yds and clocks around 1,360ft/sec out of my Rem 1100 12ga. I also haave some Rem Express "OOO" that shoots as good but a little slower at 1320ft/sec.

I have a bunch of the Remington 15rd packs of 2 3/4" "OO". It shoots pretty good in all my 12gauges except there is always one flyer out of my 1100.

Paul
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Old 12-09-2009, 21:20   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
For HD I use mainly 0 buck which has 12 - .32 caliber pellets and #4 buck which has 27- .24 caliber pellets -

I also have a few 000 buck around for a rainy day which is 8 - .36 caliber.

Nothing scientific in it - but doesn't

27 - .24 caliber
12 - .32 caliber
8 - .36 caliber

Just seem better than 9 - .33 caliber

Give up .01 per pellet but add 3 pellets

Give up 1 pellet add .03 per pellet

The #4 buck was used when I was going through a - I don't want over penetration through the walls phase -
Z - with all the variables in a defensive encounter it's difficult to be "scientific"...but we do have one point to consider, and that is the longitudinal track record of the standard 9 pellet 00 Buck..., since the 1800's it has proven to be - all things considered - a very reliable choice...the smaller shot sizes don't have anything near the "data base" to suggest that their selection is a better idea than the standard load.
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Old 12-09-2009, 21:26   #17
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Originally Posted by INhondo View Post
Good tips, I'm not sure I would have thought to pattern Buckshot at HD distances. I now know better. In my younger years I just would have stocked up on the hottest super zingy 3" magnum's and not thought a thing about it. Now my concern is absolute control of the weapon and quick follow-up shots if needed.
I did the same thing.., in my younger years I bought and used massive amounts of 3" and 2& 2/4" magnum buck in both 00 and 000 buck...after much shooting..., I settled on the standard 9 pellet 00 buck load - I don't particularly like the "tactical" loads - though some prefer these for comfort.
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Old 12-10-2009, 14:26   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofeen View Post
Why not 15 pellets?

Winchester Super X has em in 3" Magnum Loads.
That's what I am using. As soon as I get some more cash saved up a Knoxx Recoil reducing stock is in the works. Once the whole thing is set up its 6 extra pellets and reduced recoil over the standard 9 pellet load.
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Old 12-10-2009, 17:56   #19
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I like 9 pellet loads and sabot slugs... Never tried 12 pellets.
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Old 12-11-2009, 13:35   #20
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Quote:
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It's also 3 more wound tracts. My 870 and S12 both shoot Federal Flight Control the best, but S&B 12 pellet 00 also patterns well out of either, as well or better than other standard 00 loads.
I use the S & B 12 pellet load.. it's a great value and some extra payload, and yes it patterns well out to 25 yards or so out of my FN SLP 22 inch

I also load my own "0" 12 pellet load which patterns even tighter, I use buffer in that load, it seems to help

If you need more than around 25 yards in a normal urban zone you should switch to slugs or use a rifle
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Old 12-11-2009, 13:41   #21
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Howdy Z71bill,



One thing to remember is back to the birdshot thingy.......The bigger the shot, the better the penetration.

Individual "OOO" pellets will penetrate things that "OO" will not. Same with "O", #1, and especially #4 buckshot.

To me #4 buckshot is totally useless. The same arguements that everybody uses against using birdshot is the same one I use for #4 buckshot.

If you are going to use buckshot of HD, use the biggest and baddest round you can buy.

I have some old Fed. Premium 2 3/4" "OOO" that keeps all 8 pellets on an IDPA target at 40yds and clocks around 1,360ft/sec out of my Rem 1100 12ga. I also haave some Rem Express "OOO" that shoots as good but a little slower at 1320ft/sec.

I have a bunch of the Remington 15rd packs of 2 3/4" "OO". It shoots pretty good in all my 12gauges except there is always one flyer out of my 1100.

Paul
#4 buck is not worthless.. in fact it penetrates well enough to drop aggressive bipeds, and a 3 inch magnum Federal has 41 #4 pellets, that's a lots of area that's covered. Many people live in apartments and want a low penetration buckshot load, the #4 fills this mission parameter. It penetrates less than 00 by one sheetrock wall or so

In the warm weather I have a load of #4 in the chamber of my bedside Mossberg 500, but behind it are 00 buck loads. That way if the first shot ends the situation, it will have been a safer load to fire in an urban environ. In colder weather The chamber carries 00 (factoring in the clothing issue)
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:47   #22
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That's what I am using. As soon as I get some more cash saved up a Knoxx Recoil reducing stock is in the works. Once the whole thing is set up its 6 extra pellets and reduced recoil over the standard 9 pellet load.
I will have to check out this set up...interesting.
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Old 12-15-2009, 16:22   #23
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see which patterns better, and go with that.
Take a look at #1 buck. In a 2 3/4" load, it has 16(.30)pellets. The extra .03" of a 00 (or .06 of a 000)might make a difference, but I'm not sure how much. The military uses 00, because in clearing ops because overpenetration is not much of a concern. YMMV.

My guns pattern much better w/#1 than 00 (or 000). I think, at house/building clearing distances, it's a good balance, but you'll be okay w/either, as long as you know where it's going.
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Old 12-15-2009, 17:20   #24
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12 pellet loads shed velocity and retained pellet energy faster than 9 pellet loads making them less effective at longer ranges than the 9 pellet loads.

As stated for reasons not always clear, the 12 pellet loads tend to blow patterns and choking doesn't help, it tends to make this problem even worse and you may end up with a very wide donut shaped pattern which means those three extra pellets and the basic nine are flying around your target instead of into it.
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Old 12-15-2009, 21:21   #25
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I've mainly been practicing with 12x00, because I instinctively use 00 due to the fact that it's something of a standard, and my BPI manuals don't have data for lighter loads. However, I've become a fan of the lighter recoiling 8-9x00 factory loads due to reduced recoil, and I just obtained data for 8x00 using the components and propellants that I already have. I think I'll be moving in that direction increasingly. So far, with minimal load development, the 9x00 loads are patterning 6-8" at 25 yards. I figure this performance is just about ideal for HD and my other BK applications. I kind of compare it to a burst from a 9mm SMG, although I know that this isn't exactly true with respect to accuracy and penetration.
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