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Old 01-14-2010, 15:41   #1
harleyfx69
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how can ammo manufacturers get such high velocitys / power levels ..

im a pretty new guy to the reloading scene,

but i do have some worked up loads going by the book, and my rounds reach slight over presure signs right about the time the book generally does for a max load,

now onto my question, say the 44 mag,

buffalo bore has a cast lead bullet weighing in at 340 grains going out of the barrel around 1500 fps , and making well over 1600 ft lbs energy

yet per the lyman 49th your no where near 1500 fps in any weight bullet .. let alone the heavy 340 grain..

how do they ydo it, and i guess the same goes for the 10mm also
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Old 01-14-2010, 16:12   #2
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They have special powders and tricks like blending two or more powders that we're not privy to. Plus most reloading books are pretty conservative estimating pressures because they can't control what we do as far as re-using brass, variable COL's, crimps, etc...
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Old 01-14-2010, 16:16   #3
Colorado4Wheel
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They Lie.

Seriously, Some are less then honest with their claims.
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Old 01-14-2010, 16:19   #4
one2gofst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
They Lie.

Seriously, Some are less then honest with their claims.
While that may be true for some it IS NOT true for Buffalo Bore. In fact, BB goes so far as to give the numbers for their .38spl loadings out of actual snubby revolver barrels rather than a test barrel.
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Old 01-14-2010, 16:38   #5
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I actually trust Buffalo Bore. DT on the other hand, not so much. Real Guns or some such internet magazine has tested a lot of Buffalo Bore and DT ammo. DT claims are ussually higher then BB but in the test they are pretty much a wash. Aint that interesting.
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Old 01-14-2010, 16:42   #6
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Cor-bon used to do it by exceeding pressure limits until they got called on it. Anybody remember the 38Spl loads with 115 grain bullets going a million miles an hour? Some of the gun mags were wondering why they were having to pound them out of their guns. They had them tested and oopsie, they were loaded too hot.
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Old 01-14-2010, 16:54   #7
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A lot of speed reading in loading manuals are from universal recievers. Not exactly real world guns.

Length of barrel, rate of twist, size of bore, condition of bore, temperature, plus any number of other variables contribute to projectile speed. I don't think the mfg are lying; I think they are using a specific set of conditions that not everyone is duplicating.

As with most things in this world, YMWV

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Old 01-14-2010, 18:15   #8
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The Real Results in Gun Blast Review of a G20

Buffalo Bore 180 Gold Dot HP 1328 (BB Claims 1350)
Buffalo Bore 200 FMJ-FN 1184 (BB Claims 1200)


Double Tap 165 Gold Dot HP 1380
Double Tap 155 Gold Dot HP 1441
Double Tap 200 FMJ-FN 1225
Double Tap 200 XTP-HP 1216 (claims 1250)
Double Tap 230 HP 970
Double Tap 180 Gold Dot HP 1331
Double Tap 135 JHP 1509 (DT claims 1600)
Double Tap 165 Golden Sabre HP 1394
Double Tap 180 Golden Sabre HP 1259 (Claims 1300)


http://www.gunblast.com/Glock20.htm

Look the rest of DT's claims up yourself.
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Old 01-14-2010, 20:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
Cor-bon used to do it by exceeding pressure limits until they got called on it. Anybody remember the 38Spl loads with 115 grain bullets going a million miles an hour? Some of the gun mags were wondering why they were having to pound them out of their guns. They had them tested and oopsie, they were loaded too hot.
NOT QUITE !!! There are no pressure limits on the 38SPL+P+ loadings, therefore the CORBON load could not be over pressure. The pressure limits were exactly were they were asked to be; PRECISELY !!
The overwhelming majority of 38 pistols handled the load just fine and it shot like a million bucks.
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Old 01-14-2010, 20:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil Terry View Post
NOT QUITE !!! There are no pressure limits on the 38SPL+P+ loadings, therefore the CORBON load could not be over pressure. The pressure limits were exactly were they were asked to be; PRECISELY !!
The overwhelming majority of 38 pistols handled the load just fine and it shot like a million bucks.
I didn't realise it was +P+, I thought it was +P. Yeah, +P+ is definatley a caveat emptor thing. They did stop selling it though so it must have been rough on some guns. Stephen A. Camp got 1400fps with that load out of a 4 inch gun. That's kind of inviting disaster when they put it in a 38 case.
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Old 01-14-2010, 21:58   #11
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Howdy,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
They Lie.

Seriously, Some are less then honest with their claims.
+1.

Paul
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Old 01-14-2010, 23:05   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
I actually trust Buffalo Bore. DT on the other hand, not so much. Real Guns or some such internet magazine has tested a lot of Buffalo Bore and DT ammo. DT claims are ussually higher then BB but in the test they are pretty much a wash. Aint that interesting.
And, some of the BB bore stuff is running at the bleeding edge of pressures as well. I still have a few boxes of it with a warning printed on the boxes to avoid shooting under hot conditions that high ambient temperature may produce dangerous pressure levels. It shoots OK but it gets hot here...I'll stick to the proven LE defensive rounds. As far as DT goes, it has no such warning but in some loads and in some calibers, maybe it should. Depending on the specifics, some of it is a little scary however I should say, others seem fine.
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Old 01-15-2010, 16:08   #13
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The powder manufacturing companies (EACH of them) actually make probably 200-300 powders. They engineer each powder for it's specific use EXCEPT the "cannister-grade" (stuff they sell to reloaders) powders, which they engineer to hit within a certain range of qualities that are considered "standard" for that powder. (Such as burning rate and energy content/gram - this way these powders are more predictable for us reloaders, BUT with manufacturing tolerances - called lot-to-lot variation - we still need to start low and work up.)

If you're Winchester and you want to load, say 458 Win Mag, you call up St Mark's Powder (for one - it could be any number of powder vendors, such as Western Powders) and say, "I'm loading 458 Win Mag with a 500gr bullet, what powder do you have?" And, they can tell you the most appropriate three powders in their stockpile. After you receive your order of several tons delivered to you, your lab develops a load that develops the velocity you desire at as low a pressure as possible. This way, the factory ammo still performs well, but it keeps pressures down so the load is safe in any gun that meets SAAMI specifications.

There is, of course, a lot more to it, depending on the caliber involved, but that's generally how it goes. If we could stockpile 250 different powders, so we had JUST the right one for our load, we could get better performance, too...
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