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Old 01-19-2010, 09:20   #1
bell ringer
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.22 Conversion Unit for AR-15?

Howdy fellow members.

I was wondering if anyone has experience with a .22 Conversion Unit for AR-15?

I would like any and all input, advice, warnings, personal experience or anything else you think someone in the market should know.

I have been told to NOT convert my AR but to get a dedicated upper. This seems to be a very expensive option. Especially when I am seeing M&P .22s (entire rifles) in the low to mid $400's.

How about a little help here folks.

Thanks,
b_r
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:37   #2
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I have 2 conversion kits, a Ciener and a Mil. M261 and like them a lot.
Used in a Colt SP1 with 1/12 twist, they give 3/4" to 1 1/4" groups at 25 M. using Bulk Ammo.
Used in a Bushmaster Carbine with 1/9 twist, they give 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 25 M.

This with stock sights and my 72 yr. old eyes.
With both kits my rifles shoot about the same elevation when zeroed with 5.56 but about 1" to 1 3/4" right at 25 M.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:42   #3
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Thanks for the info/review ken grant. Exactly the information I need.

I have a Bushmaster. What conversion kit would you suggest?
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:09   #4
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First recommendation would be the nickel plated Spikes Tactical
Second would be the CMMG stainless, followed by the CMMG parkarized.

The Spikes kit has two o-rings to help seal the adapter in the chamber
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:12   #5
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Great information. Thanks faawrenchbndr.

Keep it coming folks. I want to make a informed decision and the more input the better.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:19   #6
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ANYTHING but a Ceiner. His newer stuff is better, but his 'customer service' is a joke. How he stays i business is waaay beyond me. He was almost physically attacked twice last year at Knob Creek from what I read.

Get a Spikes. Fantastic folks to deal with.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:46   #7
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Quote:
He was almost physically attacked twice last year at Knob Creek from what I read.
I was there with a couple of friends and seen a fellow going ballistic on him. The guy originally just asked him to stand behind his product. When he refused things escalated to the point of a really ugly situation. Funny thing is I was standing there for a conversion kit. I can honestly say he lost 3 (that I know of) sales in about a 15 minute period.

I agree. I think avoiding Ceiner would be extremely wise.

Heard a lot of good stuff about Spikes.

Thanks "Why" for the input.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:53   #8
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I have a Ciener kit and have bought one for a friend.

I ordered mine from Midway back when they had them for $139. I figured if they didn't work I could send it back to Midway. Midway has since raised the price to $159, for that I would get the CMMG or Spikes kits as they come with a hi-cap magazine.

I do love my Ciener kit. Accuracy from my 1:9 twist barrels runs about 2" at 25 yards with cheap bulk pack ammo. CMMG 26 round mags make it a lot of fun.

Replacement parts are available from a couple of other sources if it breaks.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:57   #9
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I had a Ciener kit years ago. Worked fine for me, but that dude
is the most worthless business man I've ever seen.
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Old 01-19-2010, 13:10   #10
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Lot's of great information. Thanks folks.

Sounds like for about the price I should avoid Ciener kit.
BUT ... I am still open for suggestions.

Thanks
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Old 01-19-2010, 13:39   #11
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You can get a Ceiner for about $160
You can get a CMMG parkerized finish for about $169
You can get a CMMG, stainless, for about $180
You can get a Spikes Tactical for about $200.

You get a greatly improved kit for about $40 more.
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Old 01-19-2010, 17:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
You can get a Ceiner for about $160
You can get a CMMG parkerized finish for about $169
You can get a CMMG, stainless, for about $180
You can get a Spikes Tactical for about $200.

You get a greatly improved kit for about $40 more.
The Ciener will come with a 10 round mag, the CMMG and Spikes will come with a 26 round mag.

Palmetto State Armory (have a banner ad here on GT) has the CMMG parkarized kit with 3 hi cap 26 round mags for $169. The mags normally run about $15 ea so that makes the CMMG kit cheaper than the Ciener.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/sp6.php


One down side to a conversion kit that no one has mentioned. If you shoot them too much, especially with lead .22 bullets, you can clog the gas tube on your AR15. The solution is pretty simple. First shoot copper coated .22LR ammo, second every couple hundred .22 LR rounds put your .223 upper back on and shoot a couple .223 rounds through it.
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Old 01-19-2010, 19:32   #13
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Thanks for the assist vafish!

Forgot about the mags and the gas tube.
Also the barrel inside diameter in an AR is actually .224"
The dedicated upper is a .22", correct size better accuracy
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Old 01-19-2010, 19:34   #14
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I bought an unused Spike's kit w/6 Black Dog Machine hi-cap mags for $300 a few months ago. I am happy to say that this thing is the most fun firearms gadget I have purchased in a long time. The AR I am using it in has a Bushmaster 16-inch 1-9 medium profile barrel, and yields about 2" groups at 25m using cheap "bulk pack" .22LR. It is a real hoot to shoot!

My dad has one of the CMMG stainless steel kits, and my brother has a CMMG parkerized jobber. They are just as tickled with theirs as I am mine!
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Old 01-23-2010, 20:24   #15
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Thanks to all you wonderful people.

Got some great information but I can honestly say I am no closer to a decision than I was.

BUT - the dedicated upper is sounding very appealing. To bad they are so much more expensive than the kits. I probably will have to go with a kit eventually.

Thanks again for all the info
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Old 01-23-2010, 23:06   #16
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No prob, bell ringer. Happy to share.

I am enjoying my kit so much, I am going to dedicate my "frankenrifle" to a full-time .22 and buy another AR to replace it!
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:41   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bell ringer View Post
Thanks to all you wonderful people.

Got some great information but I can honestly say I am no closer to a decision than I was.

BUT - the dedicated upper is sounding very appealing. To bad they are so much more expensive than the kits. I probably will have to go with a kit eventually.

Thanks again for all the info

FWIK/ my opinion

(1) good deals on 22 conversion kit that I know of,(1) http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar22stcokitw.html (2)(http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/sp6.php).

..I perfer the CMMG stainless .22 conversion kit as it runs almost oil free and cleans up easily. It has no break in time because the stainless is so slippery. Most buy the .22 conversion to shoot cheaply. The .22 conversion kits used to cost around $130! Sometime Midway has a sale at close to those prices but I would not recommend Ciener kits. I don't see how spending $500-$600 plus for a dedicated upper is shooting cheaply.

(2) must read material on AR-15 22 conversion kits vs twist rate/dedicated uppers/10/22/etc./etc..http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=441890


Now for my personal take, with a 1/9 barreled AR gun using common .22 ammo such as the 36 gr federal bulk pack found at walmarts, you probably won't have a problem with the accuracy as it should be about 1" to 1.5/2" at 25 yards. This is not bad accuracy. Unless you are shooting targets for competition, this type of accuracy will do well for small game hunting/ plain old practice and plinking. With the conversion kits, you simply remove the stock carrier and replace it with the .22 conversion kit and you are now shooting .22lr ammo. Just that simple. Back in the old days, we used the .22 conversion kits in the Army as we didn't need a dedicated full range and staff for extra practice . Don't expect very good accuracy with a 1/7 barreled AR gun(4"-7" groups) with the ammo you find at Walmarts. You will need exotic ammo such as the 60 gr 22LR Mexican Aguila ammo.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:25   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bell ringer View Post
Thanks to all you wonderful people.

Got some great information but I can honestly say I am no closer to a decision than I was.

BUT - the dedicated upper is sounding very appealing. To bad they are so much more expensive than the kits. I probably will have to go with a kit eventually.

Thanks again for all the info
It's a tough decision to make.

You have to decide which you value more. Accuracy or Money.

If you value accuracy the dedicated upper will out perform the conversion kit every day of the week, usually shooting groups about half the size.

But if money is tight and you just want an inexpensive way to get some trigger time with your AR15 the conversion kit is the way to go.

The other option is to get both. Buy the conversion kit now. Every time you go out and shoot it instead of .223 toss twenty bucks in an envelope in your dresser. That's less than the cost of a couple of boxes of .223. In a short amount of time you'll have saved up enough money to buy the dedicated upper. If you shoot twice a month with the conversion kit and toss $20 in the envelope each time you'll have enough saved up in about a year to buy the dedicated upper.
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Old 01-28-2010, 16:57   #19
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It's worth the extra trigger time.
Black Rifle Forum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohJ1Z...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKGNf...eature=channel
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Old 01-28-2010, 18:40   #20
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I have a parkerised CMMG that I paid too much for from Brownell's, but it works great. Since I just got a stainless one I will sell the other one as soon as I can. The prices seem to have come down recently.
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Old 01-28-2010, 18:47   #21
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Let me know when you sell ... Please.
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Old 01-28-2010, 20:38   #22
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Howdy,

Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post
ANYTHING but a Ceiner. His newer stuff is better, but his 'customer service' is a joke. How he stays i business is waaay beyond me. He was almost physically attacked twice last year at Knob Creek from what I read.

Get a Spikes. Fantastic folks to deal with.
Ciener's quality is the best in the business.

The Spike's and CMMG are copies of the Ciener unit.

I have +15,000rds through my AR Ciener unit and I really like it. As a matter of fact, I have 2 for ARs and 1 for my G23, and I need one for my G35 and my 1911.

Ciener is a jerk. He makes a great product, but he is a jerk.

Paul
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Old 01-28-2010, 23:54   #23
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I have a Spike's Tactical Conversion and am completely satisfied with it. In fact, so much so, I bought one for my brother for Christmas.

I built my daughter's .22 AR with a Tactical Solutions Dedicated .22LR upper, and it too has been quite reliable.

The nickel plating, and dual o-ring seals make the Spike's Kit easy to clean.
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:55   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stengun View Post
Howdy,
Ciener's quality is the best in the business.

Ciener is a jerk. He makes a great product, but he is a jerk.
I gotta disagree,.............

The Spikes nickel plated kit is far superiot to the Ciener.
The Stainless steel CMMG kit is better than the Ciener kit

But, I will agree that Ciener is a fargin icehole.
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Old 01-29-2010, 09:41   #25
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Excellent Information! Keep it coming....

Thanks to all!
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