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Old 01-18-2010, 18:33   #1
Cineski
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A bit annoyed at DoubleTap (Update....problem solved)

Updated on page 2.

Just placed my first order with DoubleTap. Package arrived rather quickly which was great, but to my surprise, I opened the 200 grain controlled expansion to see a brass plated bullet! I called them up and asked what the deal was, and they had just switched to Montana Gold for that load. I have to admit I'm a bit pissed off, and after speaking to Robert (who was very nice) they're going to change it out for a box of XTP, but I have to spend extra money on shipping the package back. Why don't they tell you this on the website? I've done a bunch of research on the bullets I want to use. I don't suddenly want the damn bullet changed out without my knowledge after making a choice on which to buy. I simply never would have ordered it. Not a fun way to start my foray into 10mm. And the only test I've seen done with the Montana Gold bullets was in 9mm and the bullet performed horribly. Sorry for those who don't like these tests, but other's experiences are the only thing I can go off of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGnDtgVHc0

Until I see a test for the DoubleTap 200gr Montana Gold bullet, I have no interest in buying it.

Last edited by Cineski; 01-26-2010 at 16:27.. Reason: Update.
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Old 01-18-2010, 18:55   #2
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I'm not a fan of the montana gold either. I can't believe they wouldn't tell you before shipping the product to you. That's a pretty big deal. Hopefully you'll have better luck on your 10mm foray!!
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Old 01-18-2010, 19:14   #3
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It is a big deal, and I'm pretty pissed. You chose ammo because of what's at the front end. There's some emails into DoubleTap, so we'll see what happens. Seems they want to fix it, but my concern is what happens when I place another order? I want to know which bullet I'm getting.
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Old 01-18-2010, 19:20   #4
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Looks like the 200 grain FMJ's are topped off with Montana Gold, too.
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Old 01-18-2010, 21:49   #5
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I have never personally ordered from them before, so I have no input. I hope they make it right for you.
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Old 01-18-2010, 21:55   #6
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backyard water jug and wet newspaper are not "ballistic tests", unless you plan on defending yourself against killer wet newspaper.

I have no idea how montana golds perform in a real ballistic test.

You could always ask the boys over at m4carbine.net - there is a terminal ballistic section ran by DocGKR...
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Old 01-18-2010, 21:55   #7
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I've thought about ordering from them, but haven't because they don't list the type of bullet they use. All they say is "controlled expansion" or "bonded defense" or some nonsense. Plus, I've heard that their listed velocities are generous.
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Old 01-18-2010, 22:02   #8
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Though I didn't have the same problem you did with Double Tap, they did send me two boxes of the wrong ammo.

After two emails and two calls with nothing, I wrapped and sent the ammo on my dime. Still no contact. I had to call and call about it and then they finally said the correct ammo was going out that day. I waited to receive my ammo first, then emailed about a refund or a credit for the money I spent to ship it back because of their mistake. Haven't heard a word from them since.

All and all, took two months to get my ammo. I still order from them because I love their 10mm ammo, that particular order pissed me off though.

As for the 200 grain controlled expansion, this link might help: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=268289

I think that is the same ammo you are speaking of. Maybe Midway has some of what you are looking for in Double Tap.

Just a thought. I hope it works out for you.
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Old 01-18-2010, 22:14   #9
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With both DT and Buffalo Bore, I would call before I placed an order. They have been having a difficult time getting the normal bullets and have been substituting with Montana Gold. BB send me some 155 grain that I thought were going to be GD's and they were MG. I shot one through 4 layers of denim and three milk jugs of water, which is my standard test. The bullet shed it's jacked and did not expand thus over penetrating. I better use my 10mm 165gr Golden Sabers wisely. Otherwise DT has been great over the years.
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Old 01-18-2010, 22:55   #10
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I've seen some pretty ferocious jugs of water ;-) Point is, a good bullet will open up in most mediums. Point being, almost every round of HST fired performs as it should. Thus, I always use HST for my 9's and 45's. After reading quite a bit on the XTP round with hunters, it seemed to be a great performer that expanded, penetrated, performed. Thus, I ordered this bullet in the double tap. I don't give a hoot if they can't get the bullets.....that's when you post "out of stock." It simply maddens me that they put a substitute in with zero regard to the user, and charged me the same as it was with XTP's. Imagine if Spear or Federal did that. It's simply a no go. We'll see what happens when tomorrow w/ Double Tap. Target use for MG seems to be fine, but their hollow points leave a bit to be desired.
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Old 01-18-2010, 23:23   #11
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One idea would be to use the 200 grain load with the MG 200 grain JHP for practice. You could do some bullet testing on how they perform as well. On my last order they shipped me the 200 grain FMJ loaded with the MG instead of the Hornady FMJ. As far as the FMJ bullet goes the MG should be pretty tough. They are a real FMJ with a brass jacket. I will test the penetration and check to see if they hold up before I carry them. I still have a box loaded with the Hornady bullet as well as some Buffalo Bore loaded with the 200 grain TMJ bullet for woods carry. For me I am glad that I can place an order with DT and get a delivery right away. Much better than the ammo shops that are almost always out of stock on the 10mm. By the way the folks at Montana Gold are very good people. They are prompt when you contact them with a question. Their bullets are known to be very accurate.
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Old 01-18-2010, 23:31   #12
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I do have a concern with the FMJ DT's they sent with MG's as well. Brass fouling is very hard to clean up on a gun IME. Do the MG bullets create more of this over Copper bullets? The MG's again, are also quite a bit cheaper than Hornady. They should just offer a full time version of these MG Double Taps at a reduced price.

Last edited by Cineski; 01-18-2010 at 23:33..
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Old 01-18-2010, 23:37   #13
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I have not tested the DT 200 grain FMJ with the MG bullet yet. I have not heard of any problems from any one so far and MG sells a lot of bullets.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:05   #14
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not good practice

i don't carry the 10mm but i was seriously looking at dt for my next order. this is the second or third time that i've read where dt have mislead thier customers and sent out mg instead of a more proven bullet such as gd, hornady, etc. if they decide to substitute thier bullets then that's thier choice but they need to inform the general public when they do this so that the customer know what they are getting. with this happening more than a few times i feel that they are intentionally misleading the customer and have probably gotten away with it with numerous less informed people. not a good practice and i appreciate the op and the rest of you sharing your expierence because they have lost a potential customer untile they change their ways.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:19   #15
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this seems to be a pretty common practice at doubletap
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:13   #16
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I had a problem with doubletap about 6 months ago - Only got half of my order with no explanation - I was charged the full amount.

I tried to call SEVERAL times - at least 5 - left messages - sent E-mails - NO RESPONSE!! I was very upset until about 2 weeks later the rest of my order mysteriously arrived.

I don't mind the delay, but customer service is about communication and from Doubletap I got ZERO attention and very very poor customer service.

This was probably at least my 10th order with them - first problem - have not ordered since. With the new problems I'm seeing they are headed downhill IMO. Order with care!!
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:18   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmspeedy View Post
I don't mind the delay, but customer service is about communication and from Doubletap I got ZERO attention and very very poor customer service.

This was probably at least my 10th order with them - first problem - have not ordered since. With the new problems I'm seeing they are headed downhill IMO. Order with care!!
I think that Mike is just a victim of his own success. I've ordered from them and never had a problem. This is the first thread I've ever read that bashes them. I'm sure they're much busier than they used to be. They are all the buzz in the 10mm ammo world. If you don't order from them, you copy their loads at home.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:19   #18
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I'd also say that I can't imagine Mike not making any problems right. It looks like all the problems in this thread were solved. Mike is a good guy and posts on GT often.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:26   #19
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I think he should show up and put this Montana Gold thing to rest and make it right.

He may have been overloaded when I ordered, but I run a business and know how enraged my customers get if I don't return their phone calls - Business 101.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:31   #20
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daaavman - If business is that good for him he should hire a customer service representative to handle the problems that inevitably arise while doing business.

I'm not faulting him for the mistakes (everybody screws up), just the lack of communication to his (very loyal) customers.

Now the Montana Gold thing is bad business IMO and I feel he needs to address the problem personally to preserve his good reputation.
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