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Old 01-20-2010, 13:08   #1
jcs71
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+p and Nato 124 gr. fmj

I have a Sig P225 and was curious if it was safe to shoot +p's in it as well as Nato 124 gr. fmj. I was told the nato ammo is like the equivelant(spell?) to shooting +p's.
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Old 01-20-2010, 13:56   #2
Molon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs71 View Post
. . . Nato 124 gr. fmj. I was told the nato ammo is like the equivelant(spell?) to shooting +p's.

There is nothing particularly “hot” about the 9mm 124 grain NATO load. The velocity figures that people like to throw around for the 9mm 124 grain NATO round are from test barrels, (7.85” EPVAT barrels to be specific) not actual pistol barrels. Even when fired from a Beretta 92, with its 5 inch barrel, the 124 grain NATO round doesn’t even come close to the velocities people claim. In fact, there is little difference in velocity between the 9mm 124 grain NATO round and a modern standard pressure 9mm 124 grain hollow point round.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
As an example, the chronograph printout shown below is from the Speer 124 grain Gold Dot (standard pressure load) fired from a Beretta 92. The instrumental velocity at 21 feet is 1114 fps.<o:p></o:p>
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Caliber Corner<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
Now take a look at the next chronograph printout. This printout is from the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Winchester</st1:place></st1:City> 9mm 124 grain NATO load fired from the same Beretta 92, fired immediately after the Gold Dot load was fired. The instrumental velocity at 21 feet is 1108 fps; 6 fps less than the Gold Dot load.



Caliber Corner

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Here is some additional chronograph data, this time comparing Federal's 9mm 124 grain NATO load to several other 124 grain duty loads. All loads were fired from a SIG Sauer P229 with a 3.8" barrel. Note that the 9mm NATO load is the slowest load in the table.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Caliber Corner<o:p></o:p>
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Old 01-21-2010, 12:32   #3
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Times change, and not all NATO loads are the same. Some is hot, some is not.

Back in 1985 the US M882 NATO ammo avgd 1275 fps at 15 ft when fired from an M9.

US M882 NATO I was issued back in 1998 when I retired avgd about 1260 fps at 15 ft from an M9, about 1185 fps from M11 (SIG P228).

As far as pressure, it did exceed the SAAMI +P limit of 38,500 psi too.

Now? Who knows...
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Old 01-21-2010, 15:02   #4
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Pressure does not necessarily reflect itself in velocity from any platform....I have chronied (G19) several NATO and +p marked loads that are absolutely a higher-pressure round than SAAMI standard, but were slower or the same speed as similar non-NATO/non +p marked rounds.

The commercial Samson 115gr +p blacktip and UZI bluetip 158gr subsonic are two examples that come to mind. Crimp, powder, and other variables can increase pressure with little or resultant increase in velocity.

In my chrony results (G19 barrel), both Winchester and Federal 9mm 124gr NATO FMJs had relatively low velocity, while some foreign-made 124gr NATO stuff like the Hirtenberger L7A1 is fast and truly high-pressure.
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Old 01-21-2010, 16:37   #5
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My results (as fired from a Glock 17, 4.49" barrel) closely match Molon's results (as fired from a Beretta 92, 5.00" barrel).


Winchester 9mm NATO M882 124 gr. FMJ (WCC-00-K-033-008)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Hi: 1150<o:p></o:p>
Lo: 1068<o:p></o:p>
Av: 1113<o:p></o:p>
Md: 1109<o:p></o:p>
ES: 82<o:p></o:p>
SD: 20.09<o:p></o:p>
n: 44


M882 isn't particularly "hot", even in barrels that are a little longer than the standard 4" service length and given its higher MAP, I'd rather just use standard pressure commercial ammuniton and eliminate the extra stress of firing higher pressure loads.
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Old 01-21-2010, 17:10   #6
glocksterr
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WOW!

out of a 4.5" barrel that about as hot as WWB.


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Old 01-21-2010, 19:04   #7
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WOW!

out of a 4.5" barrel that about as hot as WWB.


I've never had the chance to run WWB 124 FMJs over my chrony. Goes about 1140 per factory spec. doesn't it?

You have any data you can share here?
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Old 01-21-2010, 19:07   #8
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USA is a brand name only. It does not mean this ammunition is made in the United States. <!--REC 6-25-2008 -->

Technical Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1140 fps
Muzzle Energy: 358 ft. lbs.

<!-- system 11/30/2009 -->not mine but winchesters.
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Old 01-21-2010, 20:56   #9
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USA is a brand name only. It does not mean this ammunition is made in the United States. <!--REC 6-25-2008 -->

Technical Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1140 fps
Muzzle Energy: 358 ft. lbs.

<!-- system 11/30/2009 -->not mine but winchesters.
gsterr-

Yeah, I get that. I just thought you might've run some of it across a chrony and had some numbers to share.

I must've misunderstood what you were saying. My bad.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:23   #10
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Yep, high pressure does not always mean high velocity, or vice versa.

Federal's 124 +P EFMJ specs at 1120 fps, did 1065 fps from my G19. Some lots of that have been faster though.

Win USA has been up and down to. A few yrs ago there were some lots of USA 115 FMJ that used NATO brass that avgd 1250 + fps from my G19...
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