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Old 01-30-2010, 12:19   #1
LEAD
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Talking sub-compact ballistics

When considering sub-compact barrrel lengths, do some rounds start to look better or worse than others. For example, since there is less barrel to burn up the powder, do the merits of a .357sig over a 9mm become lost as less time is allowed for the powder to burn.

When using a sub-compact platform do lighter faster bullets or slower heavier bullets gain any more of an edge.

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I couldn't find conclusive info on it.
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Old 01-30-2010, 13:20   #2
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Typically, the faster & smaller the bullet, the faster it loses vel. in shorter bbls. You never get to the point where a 9mm is the same as a 357sig for example, but muzzle blast & flash will start being a problem w/ high vel rounds in shorter tubes.
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Old 01-30-2010, 15:17   #3
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So would you think that a 40 would become more lucrative than a .357sig in the g27/33 platform?

Also would you think it would be better to use something heavier in the chosen caliber, like a 180gr 40S&W Vs. a 135Gr 40, and a 147gr Vs. a 115gr 9mm?
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Old 01-30-2010, 16:37   #4
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It depends. Most of the JHP today will still expand well minus 100fps. There is a trend to use +P ammo to keep vel. up in the 45acp, but it only adds recoil. Same w/ say the 40 & a 155grJHP. The vel is much higher than a 180gr but recoil goes up in the smaller guns. It's kind of a balancing act. In the 9mm, I go 124gr+P, recoil is just not an issue. In the 40, I go 165gr, in the 45, I will drop to a 200grXTP or 185grWSTHP. There is no real magic choice. SOme guys will stay w/ the heaviest bullet available regardless of vel. to insure deepest penetration.
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Old 01-30-2010, 17:04   #5
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In almost all data I've found the heavier for caliber(230/45-180/40-147/9) bullets loose less fps per inch of barrel than the lighter offerings
The trend continues-the lighter the bullet the bigger the loss
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Old 01-30-2010, 17:20   #6
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Most .45 loads are tested in 5" barrels. They are big slow rounds to begin with. Go to a 3" barrel you are losing alot of of velocity. Most 9mm's and .40's are tested in 4" barrels and are high presure rounds. Going to a 3"-3.5" barrel affects performance very little.
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Old 01-30-2010, 19:55   #7
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Interesting topic. Isn't there some rounds made by Speer specifically designed for the Subcompacts?
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Old 01-30-2010, 20:34   #8
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Interesting topic. Isn't there some rounds made by Speer specifically designed for the Subcompacts?
Speer Short Barrel (SB)



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Old 01-30-2010, 21:51   #9
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I love my new G32 and now want a G33, but am starting to think I shouldn't bother. My G27 is likely more effective for its caliber than the G33... from what I'm reading.

I own a G27 and G26.
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Old 01-30-2010, 22:48   #10
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Enjoy...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 357vs357.pdf (43.4 KB, 60 views)
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Old 01-30-2010, 23:55   #11
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Thanks! Interesting .357 stats. Now it looks like the 357 SIG is a very good performer with shorter barrel lengths.
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Old 01-31-2010, 00:23   #12
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Originally Posted by DEADEYEGUY View Post
Most .45 loads are tested in 5" barrels. They are big slow rounds to begin with. Go to a 3" barrel you are losing alot of of velocity. Most 9mm's and .40's are tested in 4" barrels and are high presure rounds. Going to a 3"-3.5" barrel affects performance very little.
Not really. The bore dia/gas expansion ratio plays a big part. Rem 230grGS go 825fps form my 5" 1911 & 775fp s from the 3.5" 1911OM, not much vel loss. The Speer 125grGDHP in a 5" 357sig makes 1380fps & only 1300fps in my 3.5" P239. Smaller bore, highe vel/pressure rounds will lose vel faster/inch. Some true testing data. http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9mmluger.html
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Old 01-31-2010, 00:54   #13
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Almost all-------I do think the 357SIG is a great choice in short barrels
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Old 01-31-2010, 13:14   #14
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In self defense ammo I don't see any big difference at self defense distances. At up to 25 yards I see nothing to be overly concerned about, except maybe in small cal handguns but maybe there is and I just don't get it. The difference in speeds and self defense distances offer me little concern in most ammos. Now shooting at one hundred yards , yeah, then I might take some consideration into bullet weight and speed, but not at self defense distances.
Am I wrong here?
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Old 01-31-2010, 13:53   #15
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Originally Posted by Steel Head View Post
In almost all data I've found the heavier for caliber(230/45-180/40-147/9) bullets loose less fps per inch of barrel than the lighter offerings
The trend continues-the lighter the bullet the bigger the loss

and herin lies the problem with that.

its the heavy bullets that are velocity challenged to begin with.
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Old 01-31-2010, 14:01   #16
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and herin lies the problem with that.

its the heavy bullets that are velocity challenged to begin with.
Heavier bullets are slower, but have sufficient momentum for penetration and expansion... Unless your are talking about energy dump, magic fairy dust, then yes lighter bullets have more energy to "dump"...
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Old 01-31-2010, 15:06   #17
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Heavier bullets are slower, but have sufficient momentum for penetration and expansion... Unless your are talking about energy dump, magic fairy dust, then yes lighter bullets have more energy to "dump"...



When some Pee'd off BUFF is comin to squash you flat what do you persuade him to desist with ------a 22-250 or a 470Capsticky

That said-with today's ammo in it's normal grain range-if you have a 9mm,40 S&W 357SIG 45 acp or gap or 10mm in a short barrel gun
Your better off practicing more and worrying less

Scott in Houston You NEED a 33

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Old 01-31-2010, 15:44   #18
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Scott in Houston You NEED a 33

haha. Yes. I think you're right. What better to go with the G27 & 26 than another gun that will fit the same holsters, etc.

I would bet I own a G33 to compliment my G32 by mid February.
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Old 01-31-2010, 15:53   #19
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Originally Posted by LEAD View Post
When considering sub-compact barrrel lengths, do some rounds start to look better or worse than others. For example, since there is less barrel to burn up the powder, do the merits of a .357sig over a 9mm become lost as less time is allowed for the powder to burn.

When using a sub-compact platform do lighter faster bullets or slower heavier bullets gain any more of an edge.

Sorry if this is a repeat, but I couldn't find conclusive info on it.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html
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Old 01-31-2010, 19:40   #20
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Thanks! Interesting .357 stats. Now it looks like the 357 SIG is a very good performer with shorter barrel lengths.
No prob. The data was from Ballistics-by-the-inch just plotted into a XY graph.
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