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Old 02-03-2010, 02:46   #1
mixflip
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Shotgun question? its about Rem'ington's vs Mossberg's

Ok so Remington 870's are legendary with Police and Mossberg 590's and their bayonet capability are huge with the military.

Why didnt Remington try to sell a bayonet model to the military? Or did they and failed?
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:04   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
Ok so Remington 870's are legendary with Police and Mossberg 590's and their bayonet capability are huge with the military.

Why didnt Remington try to sell a bayonet model to the military? Or did they and failed?
Mossberg got the military contract on price.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:35   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
Mossberg got the military contract on price.
Pat
That statement ignores the fact that Mossberg's were the only pump shotguns to pass the Mil-S-3443 torture tests.
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Old 02-03-2010, 09:23   #4
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Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
That statement ignores the fact that Mossberg's were the only pump shotguns to pass the Mil-S-3443 torture tests.
And that statement ignores that fact that Remington never submitted a shotgun for testing.

Mossberg is the only shotgun to be submitted to the Mil-S-3443 torture tests.

So the OP's question still stands, Why didn't Remington try to sell a bayonet model to the military?

Only the management at Remington at that time could answer why they chose not to go after a large military contract.

My guess is that Remington knew they would lose on price to Mossberg and didn't want to look bad by losing the competition so they decided to just stay out of it.

If you want to read the Milspec it is download-able here: http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/M...-S-3443G_4585/

It really isn't that brutal of a test, the test calls for 3,000 rounds to be fired, but allows the guns to be cleaned every 100 rounds. No requirement for mud, dust, ect. There are temperature extremes in the drop tests.

I have both a Remington 870 and 3 Mossberg 500's. I have no doubt that they Remington could pass the tests as easily as the Mossberg.
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Last edited by vafish; 02-03-2010 at 09:51..
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:56   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
And that statement ignores that fact that Remington never submitted a shotgun for testing.
Student A takes & gets a 2400 on their SAT.

Student B refuses to take the SAT.

Which student gets to brag about their SAT score?
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:02   #6
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Vafish speaks the truth. This type thread is beat to death on line and that milspec mess always comes up like it is the " Holly Grail" of Mossberg owners and they attempt to use it to argue the Mossberg is superior to the Remington.

Mil Spec means nothing to me as I want better quality then a minimum standard for a low cost mass produced item.

Great answer Vafish.
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:09   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
Student A takes & gets a 2400 on their SAT.

Student B refuses to take the SAT.

Which student gets to brag about their SAT score?
I have owned 2 Mossberg shotguns and neither one worked. Both had issues with extraction. One was a 500 and the other a 590.
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:14   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
I have owned 2 Mossberg shotguns and neither one worked. Both had issues with extraction. One was a 500 and the other a 590.
Pat
That's odd considering Mossberg uses dual extractors instead of a single one like on Remingtons.
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:21   #9
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Mil-Spec besides the point, the fact that the Mossberg has a bayonet lug has nothing to do with anything. A bayonet lug can be added to any barrel. If Remington had wanted to do so they could easily have put a lug on an 870. And, FWIW, the military did buy several thousand 870s in the 1960s and 1970s, many of which were equipped with bayonet lugs.
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:22   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
That's odd considering Mossberg uses dual extractors instead of a single one like on Remingtons.
Yep both had the same issue with slugs and buck. The 500 came with a 18 inch and a 28 inch barrel. The 28 inch barrel worked but not the 18. The 590 did not work either. All my Remingtons have worked as has my Benelli M4. I won't buy another Mossberg.
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:50   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
I have owned 2 Mossberg shotguns and neither one worked. Both had issues with extraction. One was a 500 and the other a 590.
Pat

I had a Mossberg 500 that after only a few boxes of AA Trap loads, the disconnect developed a burr on it, and it wouldn't stay locked in battery.
Mossberg replaced the disconnect and it did the same thing after another few boxes of shells.

I honed the burr off. . . same result.
I honed the burr off again . . . same result.

Mossberg took a ride to a new home. Buyer was fully aware of the problem.
I sold that shotgun for $50.00 and that was with a 28" barrel and an 18" barrel.

I've now got two Mossbergs (that I won). They've NEVER been taken out of their box(es), and never will.

I've got several 870s, and they've all been flawless. Literally. . . . flawless.

Besides. . . gov't torture testing doesn't show me anything.
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:58   #12
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Have you ever noticed the "nipple" on the end of a Rem mag extension, its there for a reason. If you look hard enough you can find Rem factory heat shield/mag clamp with a bayo lug.
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Old 02-03-2010, 14:48   #13
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I used to fire 600+ rounds a week on the trap range. Both of my 870s broke ejector springs. When I switched to a Mossberg 500 I never had a problem. When I bought a BT-99 my scores dropped so I sold it and went back to shooting the Mossberg. I don't shoot as much as used to but I still have that Mossberg and it still works perfectly. That is my personal experience.
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Old 02-03-2010, 15:13   #14
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Both are solid, well-proven guns. Both are, or have been, used extensively by the military and PDs around the country. And 95% of owners will never wear either out. Anyone who says different just can't look past their own personal biases.

Oh yeah, and my Ford truck is better than your Chevy.

Last edited by TxGun; 02-03-2010 at 15:17..
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Old 02-03-2010, 15:30   #15
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I didnt mean for this thread to be a Remington vs Mossberg subject.

All I wanted to know is why Remington doesnt offer any competition to the 590/bayonet lug option?

Apparently, David's post mentions that Remington DID in fact offer bayonet lugged 870's decades ago but I havent seen any for sale presently anywhere in my area. I'd buy one in a heart beat if I did find one.

I have no brand loyalty to either. I own a Mossberg 930 SPX tactical and used to own a Remington 11-87 and I am shopping for a Remington pump as we speak.

I just thought it would be cool to have the 590/bayonet option for a zombie/SHTF/marshal law/hurricane Katrina/Rodney King riots... type situation thats all.
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Old 02-03-2010, 17:14   #16
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Quote:
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I didnt mean for this thread to be a Remington vs Mossberg subject.
Really? Have you read the title you gave this thread?
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Old 02-03-2010, 18:06   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
Student A takes & gets a 2400 on their SAT.

Student B refuses to take the SAT.

Which student gets to brag about their SAT score?
Of course student A does.

But if student B takes the ACT and gets a 38, goes to MIT and graduates Suma Cum Lade and gets a PHD in physics and develops a warp drive engine for a space ship who is going to make fun of student B for not taking the SAT?
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Old 02-03-2010, 18:13   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
Vafish speaks the truth. This type thread is beat to death on line and that milspec mess always comes up like it is the " Holly Grail" of Mossberg owners and they attempt to use it to argue the Mossberg is superior to the Remington.

Mil Spec means nothing to me as I want better quality then a minimum standard for a low cost mass produced item.

Great answer Vafish.
And I like Mossberg 500's.

But you can't put the Mossberg 590 on a pedestal and bash the Remington 870 for not passing the Milspec tests when it was purely a business decision not to go for the contract.

As for reliability of the 2 brands, like I said I have 3 500's (two 12 ga and one 20 ga) and one 870 (12 ga). All four of them, as well as my Winchester 1200 have had a problem extracting at some point and it was always an ammunition issue, switching ammo solved the problem.
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Old 02-03-2010, 18:30   #19
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The older 870s did have a bayonet lug on them when issued with the magazine extension. As for the 870 not being used by the military as an issue shotgun, the only thing I seen in the USAF has been the 870 both in the older riot gun version with and without the bayonet lug and the newer 870MCS (Modular Combat Shotgun) so the myth that the 870 is not issued to the military is just that, a myth. However, having to work on the 870, I can tell you that the Mossberg may be a better design in that if an ejector or shell stop goes bad, replacement can be done at the operator level. However, when an ejector or shell latch goes bad on our 870s, we have to restake them...and based on some of the older shotguns we've had, there is a finite number of times you can replace those parts before you run out of metal on the receiver and you wind up sending it back to depot with a red tag as unserviceable and unrepairable.
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Old 02-03-2010, 20:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
Yep both had the same issue with slugs and buck. The 500 came with a 18 inch and a 28 inch barrel. The 28 inch barrel worked but not the 18. The 590 did not work either. All my Remingtons have worked as has my Benelli M4. I won't buy another Mossberg.
Pat
I am going to guess that the chambers may have needed to be honed since it was a Mossberg with the previously mentioned dual extractors.
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