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Old 02-07-2010, 18:02   #1
Retseh
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The triggers are the problem

I own 2 HKs, 9mm and .45ACP stainless compacts, and I love them.

But there's no getting around the fact that for a thousand dollar pistol, the trigger is a joke. I haven't tried the LEM yet, but a lot don't like that either.

HK need a new trigger design, we shouldn't have to send them to Bill Springfield to make them work right.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 02-07-2010, 18:17   #2
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i had to learn the system. they are combat triggers, not match grade.
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Old 02-07-2010, 18:23   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majette View Post

........... they are combat triggers, not match grade.

THANK YOU, majette,

HK pistols are intended for combat/personal protection.
They're NOT target pistols.

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with the trigger on any HK pistol.
They work perfectly, just as they are designed to.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 02-07-2010, 20:43   #4
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They are easier to master than a Glock trigger and I have no trouble shooting fast or getting tiny groups with the HK 45.
What do you expect for a mass production DA/SA pistol with a trigger activated firing pin block?
Ever try a series 80 Colt?
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Old 02-07-2010, 20:49   #5
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after 4K rounds through each of mine and using a decent lube on the friction points of the trigger mechanism, my V1 HK USP triggers are pretty sweet. everyone that has dry fired them has agreed. The DA trigger isnt quite as good as the SIG DA, but it also has a lot more spring tension and never needs trigger spring replacement. you dont put a trigger spring in a SIG or glock on a semi regular basis (5-8K rounds) and you are asking for a door stop. Ive had SIGs, Glocks, 1911s, K frame smiths and various other ****. The HKs are the only ones that have NEVER hiccupped. Ill stick with what ive got.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:50   #6
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Americans have a fascination with target-grade triggers. No one else in the world places more emphasis on that design criteria than we do, yet on a self defense pistol or a military rifle they often are a liability.

As long as the trigger is consistent from shot to shot, it can be learned.
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Old 02-08-2010, 06:58   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron View Post

Americans have a fascination with target-grade triggers. No one else in the world places more emphasis on that design criteria than we do, yet on a self defense pistol or a military rifle they often are a liability. ........
And that is the gospel truth!
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:22   #8
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There's nothing inherently wrong with the trigger.

Some people hate Glock triggers. I myself am not a big fan of the SIG DA trigger pull. Nothing more then personal opinion.
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:38   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retseh View Post
The triggers are the problem
I believe your expectations are the problem.
A HK is a COMBAT weapon with MATCH GRADE accuracy.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 02-08-2010, 09:07   #10
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Don't get too worked up. They shoot in nicely.

Heck, go shoot an IDPA match with one. After the first stage, tell us if you even noticed the DA pull...<g> The point being that when you have even the tiniest amount of stress applied, the long, snarky, grindy pull just disappears!

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Old 02-08-2010, 14:31   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majette View Post
i had to learn the system. they are combat triggers, not match grade.
Agreed! I have no problem with any of my USP pistols. HK does offer a match trigger for the full size USP. I don't think it will work in the compact though. I don't see the need for it anyways. It's a combat/defense handgun, not a gun that I would take to a bulls-eye shoot at Camp Perry for crying out loud! When it comes to the HK trigger, I will take mine stock.
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Old 02-09-2010, 17:05   #12
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Are you guys honestly trying to justify the crappy triggers on most HKs? Combat trigger? Plllllleeease. 1911s are "combat" triggers and are great. My sig and and glocks are "combat" triggers and still waaaaaaay better than the heavy DA pull and long reset of my p2000. I'm not saying the p2000 or any hk is a bad pistol, I'm pretty fond of hk, infact the trigger on my p7m8 is pretty good but seriously stop drinking the kool-aid. I think hk makes some nice guns but I think the triggers are the weak point of most of their line up. I hope to eventually send my p2k to bruce at grayguns to remedy this.

FWIW, I haven't tried a LEM yet.
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Old 02-09-2010, 17:55   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4RWlN View Post

Are you guys honestly trying to justify the crappy triggers on most HKs? Combat trigger? Plllllleeease. 1911s are "combat" triggers and are great......

The 1911 is limited to single action only and is a completely different kind
of trigger. HK triggers are just fine for their intended use.

blueiron said it best in his post:
"Americans have a fascination with target-grade triggers. No one else in the world places more emphasis on that design criteria than we do, yet on a self defense pistol or a military rifle they often are a liability."

"As long as the trigger is consistent from shot to shot, it can be learned."


Take the time to learn and adapt to the HK trigger instead of demanding that it adapt to
you and you'll be a far better shooter.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:56   #14
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That statement just covers 1911s. And I'm pretty sure sure that Para make a 1911 da/sa.

Glocks, Walthers, Sigs, and others have "combat" triggers that are way better than HKs. HKs should offer better triggers for the price they demand. I'm not saying that the HK triggers aren't usable or te worst I've used. What I am saying is for the money, they should be better. I'd personally would be happier with just a shorter reset.

I agree the triggers are "fine." But that reminds me of the saying:

Good enough is not the same as good to go.
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:18   #15
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Another one complaining about the trigger .
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:10   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4RWlN View Post

That statement just covers 1911s. And I'm pretty sure sure that Para make a 1911 da/sa.......


Para Ordinance makes a DA/SA "variation" of the 1911 pistol.
The original and most common form of 1911 is with a single action trigger.

The 1911 trigger cannot be compared to the trigger of an HK or any other
modern DA/SA pistol as they're two entirely different designs.

American pistol shooter's are spoiled rotten when it comes to their guns,
primarily because some manufacturers try and cater to their every whim.

HK has just joined that group with their "adjustable" backstraps for their
pistols.

Many American shooters complain about triggers, grips being too small or
to large, doesn't have night sights (the latest fad), doesn't have a light
rail? or the finish isn't what they expected.

They say, "Oh, but I attended the latest "operator" training class and they told me
that tactics today have changed and all this stuff is important."

BS! Most modern pistols are just fine, for their intended purpose, right
out of the box.

If you want a target pistol with a target trigger then buy one,
but don't expect all pistols to automatically come with a target trigger.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:24   #17
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IMHO, if you can't shoot a HK well and blame it on the trigger, perhaps you simply can't shoot very well period.

If the standard HK trigger foils your attempts at hitting something maybe you should install the HK Match Trigger. It is much lighter, crisper and resets in only 1/8", but is not suitable for a CCW if you ask me.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4RWlN View Post

Glocks, Walthers, Sigs, and others have "combat" triggers that are way better than HKs. HKs should offer better triggers for the price they demand. I'm not saying that the HK triggers aren't usable or te worst I've used. What I am saying is for the money, they should be better. I'd personally would be happier with just a shorter reset.
i usually stay out of this type of stuff because its personal preference and i know what i like and frankly, dont care what others like or dislike. but here are some points id like to clear up:

look at the trigger springs. the HKs trigger spring is designed and is large enough to live the lifetime of the weapon. its huge compared to the SIG trigger spring. ive owned my share of SIGs, but the HK is more robust. SIGs have a pansy little trigger spring that is designed to be replaced every 5K rounds. field strip a SIG a glock and an HK and you will see the difference in trigger springs.

as far as the walther, ive only shot a p99qa and i hate those triggers. now to the glock, i dont even know why people try to compare them to the DA/SA HK because they are completely different. look at the trigger spring in the glock compared to the V1 HKs and tell me which one you think has a longer service life. i wonder if that makes a difference. we wont even go into the fact that the DA/SA HK has second strike capability, but it is worth noting that the HKs heavier main spring that makes the trigger pull harder also hits the primer harder, significantly harder.

heres an anicdotal tale from a few months ago. my shooting buddy and i got some WWB from the same distributor. they had hard primers. his walther p99qa and glock 19 would barely leave a mark on the primers. needless to say they wouldnt fire. put them through both those striker fired weapons a second time, still no bang. put them through the HKs and they went bang every time. the HKs hit the primer hard. we only tried to put a couple magazines of the hard primer stuff through the glock and walther before giving up and putting some old CCI blazer i had on hand through them instead. but my HKs ate everyone of those hard primer WWB loads without a single hiccup. about 10 boxes of the **** to be precise. which one would you rather have? ill take the heavier trigger thatll eat hard primer ammo like its candy. the difference in the dents on the primers between the striker fired guns and the DA/SA HK was no comparison.

also, if you lube the friction points in the trigger on the HKs, and shoot them the DA/SA trigger gets to the point where it feels like a SIGs. problem is, most people pick up a new one that has no rounds through it, dry fire it and cry about the trigger.

whatever, 1911, SIG, glock, HK, you name it. none of them have as good a trigger as my Clark Custom Ruger MkII pistol. and the rugers trigger wont touch the trigger on my CZ 452 that i put a shim and a spring in. its all relative. compared to the rifles i shoot, all the pistol triggers suck. so i guess i should be complaining about glock, SIG and 1911 triggers because they all eat a dick in comparison.

they are just pistols. its not like they are accurate or powerful, so who cares if the trigger isnt perfect. pistols are a weapon of convenience. pick the one you like and call it a day.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:07   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
American pistol shooter's are spoiled rotten when it comes to their guns,
primarily because some manufacturers try and cater to their every whim.

HK has just joined that group with their "adjustable" backstraps for their
pistols.
And they should. You are giving them your money. You are completely missing the point. Put your koolaid down for a second and read what I'm saying. HK makes great firearms but for the price, they should come with better triggers I mean these are not $400-500 pistol. The triggers should be better for the price.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:12   #20
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I believe HK sells a Tactical trigger kit,
its the same that comes standard on the tactical and expert.
In single action mode it is a great improvement,
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:28   #21
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Originally Posted by D4RWlN View Post
And they should. You are giving them your money. You are completely missing the point. Put your koolaid down for a second and read what I'm saying. HK makes great firearms but for the price, they should come with better triggers I mean these are not $400-500 pistol. The triggers should be better for the price.

OK! I get it now!
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:38   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem Eastwood View Post
i usually stay out of this type of stuff because its personal preference and i know what i like and frankly, dont care what others like or dislike. but here are some points id like to clear up:

look at the trigger springs. the HKs trigger spring is designed and is large enough to live the lifetime of the weapon. its huge compared to the SIG trigger spring. ive owned my share of SIGs, but the HK is more robust. SIGs have a pansy little trigger spring that is designed to be replaced every 5K rounds. field strip a SIG a glock and an HK and you will see the difference in trigger springs.

as far as the walther, ive only shot a p99qa and i hate those triggers. now to the glock, i dont even know why people try to compare them to the DA/SA HK because they are completely different. look at the trigger spring in the glock compared to the V1 HKs and tell me which one you think has a longer service life. i wonder if that makes a difference. we wont even go into the fact that the DA/SA HK has second strike capability, but it is worth noting that the HKs heavier main spring that makes the trigger pull harder also hits the primer harder, significantly harder.

heres an anicdotal tale from a few months ago. my shooting buddy and i got some WWB from the same distributor. they had hard primers. his walther p99qa and glock 19 would barely leave a mark on the primers. needless to say they wouldnt fire. put them through both those striker fired weapons a second time, still no bang. put them through the HKs and they went bang every time. the HKs hit the primer hard. we only tried to put a couple magazines of the hard primer stuff through the glock and walther before giving up and putting some old CCI blazer i had on hand through them instead. but my HKs ate everyone of those hard primer WWB loads without a single hiccup. about 10 boxes of the **** to be precise. which one would you rather have? ill take the heavier trigger thatll eat hard primer ammo like its candy. the difference in the dents on the primers between the striker fired guns and the DA/SA HK was no comparison.

also, if you lube the friction points in the trigger on the HKs, and shoot them the DA/SA trigger gets to the point where it feels like a SIGs. problem is, most people pick up a new one that has no rounds through it, dry fire it and cry about the trigger.

whatever, 1911, SIG, glock, HK, you name it. none of them have as good a trigger as my Clark Custom Ruger MkII pistol. and the rugers trigger wont touch the trigger on my CZ 452 that i put a shim and a spring in. its all relative. compared to the rifles i shoot, all the pistol triggers suck. so i guess i should be complaining about glock, SIG and 1911 triggers because they all eat a dick in comparison.

they are just pistols. its not like they are accurate or powerful, so who cares if the trigger isnt perfect. pistols are a weapon of convenience. pick the one you like and call it a day.
Agreed. DA/SA triggers are nothing like striker fired pistols. I'm comparing the DA/SA triggers because the term "combat" trigger was argued. They are all defensive style pistol with "combat" triggers.

Yes glocks and sigs have smaller trigger springs. I stopped keeping track of round count after hitting 15k rds within my first five months of owning my g31. Mostly WWB and Gold Dots. That was late 2005. I only ever had 1 malf and that was with a conversion barrel, the very first time I used it.(stovepipe) The point I'm making is 15k is way more than most will ever put through any one gun. I'd say the spring is more than adequate. Hell, there's test of glock going waaaaaay more than 15k.

Good point with the second strike capability. I do like that about my p2000.

The p99as trigger is great. The trigger on my PPS is very glock like.

Agreed again. None of my guns can even touch the trigger in my mkiii Hunter with about $200 worth of clark custom and volquartsen parts I installed Fun pistol. Now I need a TS paclite and a red dot

You guys need to calm down. Like I've stated several time already, the ONLY point i'm trying to make is for the PRICE, the should come with better triggers.

I like my p2000 quite a bit but will probably still send it to gray guns for trigger job. And I LOVE my P7s
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Old 02-11-2010, 13:23   #23
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Agreed. DA/SA triggers are nothing like striker fired pistols. I'm comparing the DA/SA triggers because the term "combat" trigger was argued. They are all defensive style pistol with "combat" triggers.

Yes glocks and sigs have smaller trigger springs. I stopped keeping track of round count after hitting 15k rds within my first five months of owning my g31. Mostly WWB and Gold Dots. That was late 2005. I only ever had 1 malf and that was with a conversion barrel, the very first time I used it.(stovepipe) The point I'm making is 15k is way more than most will ever put through any one gun. I'd say the spring is more than adequate. Hell, there's test of glock going waaaaaay more than 15k.

Good point with the second strike capability. I do like that about my p2000.

The p99as trigger is great. The trigger on my PPS is very glock like.

Agreed again. None of my guns can even touch the trigger in my mkiii Hunter with about $200 worth of clark custom and volquartsen parts I installed Fun pistol. Now I need a TS paclite and a red dot

You guys need to calm down. Like I've stated several time already, the ONLY point i'm trying to make is for the PRICE, the should come with better triggers.

I like my p2000 quite a bit but will probably still send it to gray guns for trigger job. And I LOVE my P7s


i wouldnt send the p2k for a trigger job, id just lube it like you do the glock triggers.

you are right. 15k rounds is more than most people will ever put through a weapon. but there are quite a few HKs out there with well over 70K that have never had anything done other than a recoil and mag springs every 15K. i havent had as good of luck with glock trigger springs as you, my g31 broke one after 2500 rds. so i trust the HK over the glock.

you can drop the weight of the trigger in the HK with a mainspring swap. but then it would only hit the primers as hard as a glock. and too me, that aint hard enough.

its just a difference of preference. i prefer my stock, broken in and lubed HK da/sa trigger, but about all i shoot is the DA/SA stuff. when i shoot striker guns like the glock, m&p or xd a lot i have to readapt to the DA trigger pull. but i trust the HK the most, so thats what i practice with. like i said go with what you like. but from an engineering standpoint, there aint a damn thing wrong with the HK trigger. like you said, it isnt the best but it isnt the worst either.

i dont know what you are paying for them, but both of mine were $640 before tax and came with 3 mags and meps. the last glock i bought new was my g30 and with 2 mags and standard sights it was $530 before tax. so $110 difference between the Glock and the HK, the HK had a $90 set of sights on it and an extra $40 mag that i dont have to seat before i so itll feed (and thats another issue i have with glocks).

i love how every thread about HKs comes down to the argument about cost. i dont know where people are getting these things, but that might be more of an issue of getting ****ed by a dealer rather than the fault of the weapon. but opinions are like *******s......
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:08   #24
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i wouldnt send the p2k for a trigger job, id just lube it like you do the glock triggers.

you are right. 15k rounds is more than most people will ever put through a weapon. but there are quite a few HKs out there with well over 70K that have never had anything done other than a recoil and mag springs every 15K. i havent had as good of luck with glock trigger springs as you, my g31 broke one after 2500 rds. so i trust the HK over the glock.

you can drop the weight of the trigger in the HK with a mainspring swap. but then it would only hit the primers as hard as a glock. and too me, that aint hard enough.

its just a difference of preference. i prefer my stock, broken in and lubed HK da/sa trigger, but about all i shoot is the DA/SA stuff. when i shoot striker guns like the glock, m&p or xd a lot i have to readapt to the DA trigger pull. but i trust the HK the most, so thats what i practice with. like i said go with what you like. but from an engineering standpoint, there aint a damn thing wrong with the HK trigger. like you said, it isnt the best but it isnt the worst either.

i dont know what you are paying for them, but both of mine were $640 before tax and came with 3 mags and meps. the last glock i bought new was my g30 and with 2 mags and standard sights it was $530 before tax. so $110 difference between the Glock and the HK, the HK had a $90 set of sights on it and an extra $40 mag that i dont have to seat before i so itll feed (and thats another issue i have with glocks).

i love how every thread about HKs comes down to the argument about cost. i dont know where people are getting these things, but that might be more of an issue of getting ****ed by a dealer rather than the fault of the weapon. but opinions are like *******s......
I agree mostly with what you said but still wish the reset was shorter. I can shoot my glocks much faster and accurately due to the reset. I haveshort stroked the hk p2000 before because the reset is longer.

As far as price. I can get a Glock NIB for 398+tax. My p2000 was $700 NIB. That was the best price I could find NIB. That was from CDNN. Niether with night sights.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:43   #25
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shooting from reset is a technique a lot of IDPA competitors i have shot with use. and i guess if thats how you shoot then great. im not saying there arent things i wouldnt change about any given platform to make it work better for me. im just saying pick the best platform for the job. sounds like for you that isnt the HK. for me the HK fits what i do best. i dont shoot anything from reset, so thats not a major concern for me.

but in triggers similar to the glocks, like the HK LEM and SIG DAK i prefer the glock for the short reset. but in DA/SA its short enough i dont shoot it from reset.

my old roomate is a glock guy and was *****ing about the reset on my DA/SA USP. i asked him if he shot his SA ruger mkII 22/45 from reset. he said no. and then i said, then why would you want to shoot the SA trigger on the HK from reset. he was like "good point."

all im saying is that they are two different trigger systems. and to shoot quickly you have to shoot the glocks, m&ps, xd's ect. from reset. but i dont have a problem with the SA trigger on the HKs being ready to fire as quickly as the muzzle comes back down on the target. so its not an issue for me.

as far as pricing goes, i guess if you want to compare LE pricing on the glocks to what the retailers are getting that is your prerogative, but its not an apples to apples comparison of retail prices. you might as well claim that all glocks are under $400 new and that HKs are $1000 new. because thats true if you have dept letter head for the glocks and buy an HK from a really high priced dealer. what i am saying is that you are setting different standards for each to make your point.

the prices i gave were based on buying both guns retail from the same dealer within 3 months of one another. i couldve compared the highest price i could find on the glock to my dealer who has good prices on HKs, but i didnt because that isnt a fair comparison.
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