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Old 02-14-2010, 17:32   #1
Aceman
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Lock & Load w/ Ermy Today

Great show on the shotgun, from the Blunderbuss to the AA12, and everything in between. A few VERY interesting notes:

#1 birdshot vs buck vs slug - against a naked Turkey at ~20 yards
- Birdshot went maybe 2" into a plucked turkey, would not have been very effective as a stopper against anyone with anything heavier than a sweatshirt, if that IMO.
- Buck was excellent - most shot went in close together, and a couple of flyers hit also. Bird was a mess.
- Slug was total overkill. But totally effective!

#2 Showed a breaching team using a Mossberg pump
- Breached the door, guys right and left - and the SG right down the middle! Pump shotgun is NOT only for killing hinges!

#3 Also showed Ermy shooting with shells on a sling w/ SD shotgun:
- As anyone who has ever shot with a sling would do, had it single wrapped/de-slacked on his arm. People here poo-poo sling mounted rounds. I've never had a problem with them. Ermy didn't either. who raised you guys...need to learn how a sling works!

#4 The AA12 is the most awesome SG in the universe. even cooler than a Saiga 12 - if that's possible. Saiga wasn't covered. He ket it domestic.

Rate of fire info presented throughout for pump, semi, auto, etc...even covered a trap shooting hottie with an over and under!

Awesome SG show - catch it if you can!
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Old 02-14-2010, 18:28   #2
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I watched it.

I really want one of those semi auto Benellis.
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Old 02-14-2010, 23:02   #3
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I missed it! Where can I watch it again?
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Old 02-14-2010, 23:26   #4
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Caught it. Loved it. Love all epidsodes of "Locked and Loaded"
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Old 02-14-2010, 23:31   #5
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did you see the episode with the explosives?
know this is a forum for shotguns tho.
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:49   #6
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I love my semi 590s'.'08.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:25   #7
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watched it, I kinda squinted when he was shooting the AA12 via remote control. he was swinging that remote from excitement. imagine if the buttons was touched...
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:27   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixflip View Post
I missed it! Where can I watch it again?
You can catch it on History. Go online and look up future airing times. I love the episode about handguns and where he introduces the glock as the grand finally.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:44   #9
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I missed it! Where can I watch it again?
My son said that it is available 'on demand', on Comcast.
(I can't find it, though. I'll bet my son can find it!!)



My daughter has been looking all over "on demand" for the shows.
NOT THERE!!!!!!!

She did see that Lock-N-Load (shotguns) comes back on Friday at 12-1 p.m. and 6-7p.m.!!!!
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:48   #10
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If you do a little looking, you can watch the episode online.
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Old 02-15-2010, 13:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
Great show on the shotgun, from the Blunderbuss to the AA12, and everything in between. A few VERY interesting notes:

#1 birdshot vs buck vs slug - against a naked Turkey at ~20 yards
- Birdshot went maybe 2" into a plucked turkey, would not have been very effective as a stopper against anyone with anything heavier than a sweatshirt, if that IMO.
- Buck was excellent - most shot went in close together, and a couple of flyers hit also. Bird was a mess.
- Slug was total overkill. But totally effective!

#2 Showed a breaching team using a Mossberg pump
- Breached the door, guys right and left - and the SG right down the middle! Pump shotgun is NOT only for killing hinges!

#3 Also showed Ermy shooting with shells on a sling w/ SD shotgun:
- As anyone who has ever shot with a sling would do, had it single wrapped/de-slacked on his arm. People here poo-poo sling mounted rounds. I've never had a problem with them. Ermy didn't either. who raised you guys...need to learn how a sling works!

#4 The AA12 is the most awesome SG in the universe. even cooler than a Saiga 12 - if that's possible. Saiga wasn't covered. He ket it domestic.

Rate of fire info presented throughout for pump, semi, auto, etc...even covered a trap shooting hottie with an over and under!

Awesome SG show - catch it if you can!


Forgive me, but I didn't see the program. I have some questions. How large of a turkey was it???? Was it a frozen, partial thawed or fulled thawed turkey???? I'm assuming lead shot; correct??? The reason I ask is this..............I often use 3" steel 2's when hunting Canada geese, and I often get complete penetration on these birds out to 35-40 yards. I've killed them out to 50 yards with the same load. For late season geese with heavy winter feathers and down I use 3.5" steel T's and wack them hard. These birds can be anywhere from 8-9lbs. up to 13-14lbs. on average. Some are larger too. What you're saying doesn't jive 100% here. Not arguing, I'm just saying!!! Cheers.
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Old 02-15-2010, 14:34   #12
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Shooting from a static position with a shell-carrier sling wrapped around the off arm is totally different than maneuvering a shotgun through tight hallways, curves, vertical & horizontal angles, under large objects, around corners, and occasionally removing the off arm to open a door, move something out of the way, or using the gun as an impact weapon or control device.

I tried one many years ago at work, and that heavy sling swung all over the place, besides making it near impossible to get shells out of its loops in any kind of a hurry for quick reloading. It got jettisoned fairly quick.
You can't work a building with your off arm "slung-up" in a firing position. Well, I couldn't. It's too cumbersome in attaching the off arm to the gun when it needs to be free to come off the gun as needed quickly & right back on again. One thing I did not need was to have a hand or arm strapped to the long gun in real life situations where its use might be imminent, and I wasn't figuring on shooting dead birds or watermelons that don't fight back. Wrapping the off arm in a sling on a PUMP shotgun can also cause other problems. I don't know any instructors that advocate the shell-carrier sling, or slinging up with it routinely.

Shooting slowfire from a static position is totally different from defensive use.

I "raised" myself on what worked for me during training sessions & on-the-job experience with pumpguns and short-barreled AR15s. Much as I like Ermey, I don't know that he has any experience in working with a shotgun in this context, and in some of his other demonstrations I see him using stances that are more appropriate to competition than practical use.
Not knocking the man, just saying I find him very entertaining, but not necessarily a credible source for firearms techniques across the board. In fairness, what he does in front of the camera is more demonstrational than instructional, and what he does on his own time may be different.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:07   #13
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Originally Posted by DPris View Post
Shooting from a static position with a shell-carrier sling wrapped around the off arm is totally different than maneuvering a shotgun through tight hallways, ..... In fairness, what he does in front of the camera is more demonstrational than instructional, and what he does on his own time may be different.
Denis
Total respect D, all good points, well taken. And as I've always said/done for a point of clarification...

#1 I like a sling on an SG period
#2 I also agree that a fully loaded sling is detrimental to fast tracking
#3 I do usually keep only a few rounds on there (3-6) - and they do not bother me at all 3 up front/ 3 to the back (middle of sling empty)

I do not mind the wrap - I've don that all my life for all kinds of shooting - I may well just be used to it / good at it. I can in/out tight/loose pretty automatically.
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Old 02-17-2010, 08:44   #14
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Quote:
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I missed it! Where can I watch it again?
My local cable company has been doing a lot of reruns, they didn't pay the higher prices for new content this quarter. That Lock-n-load episode has been on twice within he past 60 days and a marathon ran this past week

Check the History Channel for program times.
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:20   #15
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I have no problem with a sling on a shotgun in general, I was just reacting to Item #3 as far as the shell carrier type goes & the bit about "who raised you guys" & "need to learn how a sling works".
Many feel there's no need for one on an indoor home defense shotgun & it's vulnerable to snagging on furniture & such. On a dedicated HD gun, I don't personally see the need, but if the gun is a go-anywhere setup I think slings have utility.

I did replace that shell sling with a lightweight nylon one over 20 years ago, and I have nylon on one 870 & a leather 1907-type on another one today. The sling was used on occasion as a carry strap when both hands were needed (climbing to building roofs, switching from search to handcuff mode, etc.), but it was never used as a shooting sling & I never worked a building (or anything else) slung up in a rifle-type combat stance.

The shotgun for home defense or LE is used 99.9 percent of the time as a close-range "mover", not as a long-range static stand up & engage-at-distance right-out-in- the-open pseudo-rifle. It is obviously capable of slugs at 100 yards, but by far the greatest use for the defensive shotgun is much closer.

For hunting, it's a different ballgame & all you may lose is a deer.
For self defense, strapping the off arm to the gun while working a building, alley, roof, or whatever, can slow your reaction time to non-shooting pop-up events and bind you to the gun when you don't want to be bound to the gun, and I'm curious about how you'd handle immediate followup shots after the first one if you're slung up. I can't run the slide while strapped in. Wouldn't be such a problem with a semi-auto, but I don't use a semi-auto.

Guess the bottom line is- if your system works for you, and you make a deliberate informed choice knowing the potential liabilities, that's ok for you.
But, it has demonstrable liabilities & I'll pass. :D

Denis
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:02   #16
mixflip
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Ah ha, the whole episode is already on youtube along with all his other shows. watched it!

The birdshot vs buckshot vs slug segment was great.

2" penetration vs devastated vs obliterated!!!
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Old 02-17-2010, 20:46   #17
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Ah ha, the whole episode is already on youtube along with all his other shows. watched it!

The birdshot vs buckshot vs slug segment was great.

2" penetration vs devastated vs obliterated!!!
I think if the bird was wearing a jean jacket vs the birdshot, he might have made it.
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