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Old 02-20-2010, 00:03   #1
sleepygreen
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training and ccw

I live in washington and have been considering getting my ccw permit. I have owned at least one firearm for at least 4 years now and am comfortable around them and using them, but i have never carried one. 99% of the time i dont even feel it necessary to carry one, but every once in a while where im going to meet someone to sell/buy something, or am going to a sketchy area i might want to carry a small pistol.

for those of you who do carry, how many of you have had professional training to carry? how many of you have not and just carry anyways? dont be scared to say you havnt had training, im just curious.
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Old 02-20-2010, 00:14   #2
.357 Glocker
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I got the CPL mainly so I wouldn't be subject to a waiting period and just in case. In the begining I never really intended to carry. Later I started to carry regularly then eventually I took a class with Insights Training. In retrospect I would never carry without the training but it took the training to make me feel that way.
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Old 02-20-2010, 00:54   #3
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If you take a class (I did) you WILL learn things about gun handling and the laws you may be dealing with. Some of these will be a surprise to you. All of them will be helpful. IMHO everyone who carries should be familiar with these things.
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:50   #4
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You shouldn't consider carrying without some form of real training. In most states it's mandatory, but if it's not for you, take the initiative.

It's good that you already know your way around your gun; there was a woman in my CCW class (who had obviously been dragged there by her husband) that acted like she'd never held the gun before. Still, you need to know the laws regarding carrying a firearm and use of deadly force in your locality. Hopefully you also get some training on drawing from concealment- an essential step in the use of deadly force; practice this a lot!
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Old 02-20-2010, 14:17   #5
fredj338
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I am amazed how many CCW people have no training, none, nada. IMO, you are a liability w/o some training in not only shooting, but liability & use of force. Remember, you are responsible for ever round sent downrange.
Anyone can get a drivers license, few can actually drive a car properly/safely.
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Old 02-20-2010, 14:56   #6
Glolt20-91
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I am amazed how many CCW people have no training, none, nada. IMO, you are a liability w/o some training in not only shooting, but liability & use of force. Remember, you are responsible for ever round sent downrange.
Anyone can get a drivers license, few can actually drive a car properly/safely.
Excellent points, by time I was 23 yoa I'd been to Vietnam (and back) and was an LEO (.357mag), including a brief undercover narcotics gig (M1911). Preferences for me today include G20 SF/10mm, L/N frame .357mag and 1911s in .45 auto 'n .38 Super.

For a new shooter, I'd recommend hooking up with a combat vet who is willing to spend one on one time with you. Psychology is the most important foundational quality one needs when going into harm's way, something my generation was able to glean from our WWII esperienced fathers.

Bob
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:24   #7
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If you do not take a class and get formal training you will never know what you don't know.
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Old 02-21-2010, 13:20   #8
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Excellent points, by time I was 23 yoa I'd been to Vietnam (and back) and was an LEO (.357mag), including a brief undercover narcotics gig (M1911). Preferences for me today include G20 SF/10mm, L/N frame .357mag and 1911s in .45 auto 'n .38 Super.

For a new shooter, I'd recommend hooking up with a combat vet who is willing to spend one on one time with you. Psychology is the most important foundational quality one needs when going into harm's way, something my generation was able to glean from our WWII esperienced fathers.

Bob
I would agree, but, being a combat vet doesn't really mean you know much about handgun combat or lethal force use. No knock, just fact. My pop was 11th Airborne, fought in the big war, went on to LE in the 70s, definitely the combat mindset. He was not the one to give me the best instruction in how to use a handgun for SD though. Good man, but narrow experience. Most of todays LEO have not been in combat. You can see it in the faces of new recruits during scenario training in the academies.
His handgun was a tool, he qualified twice a year & that was about it. CCW or even HD usuers need a good class or at the minimum, somne instruction from someone who has the same knowledge & can teach the min skill set. Combat mindset can't be taught, you have it or you don't. It can be developed, but you have to have something already going for you to do that.
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Old 02-22-2010, 17:34   #9
Glolt20-91
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I would agree, but, being a combat vet doesn't really mean you know much about handgun combat or lethal force use.
So, we train and qualify with handguns (and many other platforms), but don't know how to use them in combat or civilian self defense situations?

My father taught me a lot about shooting, 101st Airborne ETO 1944-45. Reflecting upon past years, civilian LEO can learn much from military training and tactics.

Bob
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Old 02-22-2010, 18:48   #10
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Sleepy,

My training includes shooting/SD schools ran by Ray Chapman, Ayoob, Givens, SouthNarc, Steve Moses, and others. Been to some several times.

Now all that is not necessary. But, if I had to pick one for learning practical street it would be Ayoobs LFI-1. Shooting? Tom Givens of Rangemaster. H2H training... Krav Maga.

But I do this stuff cause I like it. It's like golf or tennis to me. Not everyone wants to get pounded on each week or crank out ammo for a practice session once a week either. I do both.

Anyway, yes some training would be a wise investment (and fun to.)

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Old 02-22-2010, 22:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glolt20-91 View Post
So, we train and qualify with handguns (and many other platforms), but don't know how to use them in combat or civilian self defense situations?

My father taught me a lot about shooting, 101st Airborne ETO 1944-45. Reflecting upon past years, civilian LEO can learn much from military training and tactics.

Bob
My point being not all combat vets have extensive or even moderate training w/ a sidearm. I've even instructed a couple of older vietnam era guys that were horrible w/ a handgun. Probably better than getting instruction form the average LEO, how many of them have even fired a shot in anger?
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Old 02-23-2010, 11:04   #12
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Sleepygreen,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
First off, thanks for your post. I have never received and CCW specific training. <o:p></o:p>
To be honest I never paid for training out of my own pocket. But, my dad taught me safe gun handling since I was young and the Army, the private security company i used to work for, and the Sheriff's Office I currently work for did the rest. Not that I don't want to, its just that as long as the kids need to eat 3 times a day my money is tied up. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My advice is first get a hold of a copy of Jeff Cooper's "Principles of Personal Defense" and read it. Its more of an essay so read it more than once. The Mindset is more important than anything else. http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Per.../dp/0873644972<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Then seek out some quality training. If you can't afford personal training from some of the better known schools (god knows I can't) there are many good video's out there that are discussed throughout this site. No this is not ideal, but its better than nothing. I can personally recommend Clint Smith's Thunder Ranch DVD's. I would be careful about selecting in person training. There are many discussions on training and trainers here in this forum. Personally I am skeptical of many of the "High Speed Operators" I see advertised. Find someone who is down to earth and practical. You don't need to learn how to shoot while fast roping out of a burning Blackhawk helicopter. <o:p></o:p>
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