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Old 02-27-2010, 15:30   #1
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converted another friend

we to the range today with some friends.
i went to finally shoot my XDm and M&P9 Pro.
don't worry, i had too my Wilson, Brown & STI with me as well.

my one friend just got a mil-spec, so he was breaking it in.
i loaded up a few mags for my other friend to shoot my Brown.
his first shot was a bullseye @ 7yards, which is pretty good because he would be lucky to do that with any of the other guns. the rest of the mag and the 2nd mag were about an inch.

i then loaded 2 mags, moved the target out to 15yards and handed him the Wilson Longslide. his 2 mag group was ~2". now he's really liking the 1911's.

he also shot the STI pretty well too. now he's pretty set on getting a 1911 .

as for the polymer's it seemed that between the Glock, XDm (w/ Springer trigger kit) and M&P9 Pro (w/ apex sear), the favorite was the M&P, followed by the Glock (though after shooting the 1911's it naturally pointed high) and the least favorite of the 3 was the XDm.

the favorite of the day were the 1911's
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Old 02-27-2010, 15:33   #2
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Funny how some say the 1911 is outdated, even obsolete. Seems the new breed of polymer framed pistols are better in every way. Except actually shooting them.
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Old 02-27-2010, 15:39   #3
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he's looking at getting a commander size for carry, but was worried about the whole C&L'd thing, then we showed him how it's safer compared to the polymers.

yep, new technology doesn't always mean better. JMB knew what he was doing. Glock know's cabinet knobs
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Old 02-27-2010, 15:57   #4
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I wonder how the Glock will fare when it's 100 years old, or any other fantastic plastic for that matter. There is a reason the venerable 1911s are still made.
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Old 02-27-2010, 16:10   #5
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The Glock pistol will still be around in some form or another (laser or not) in 100 years because the aggressive grip angle and the low bore axis make it easy to instinctively point and shoot.
And the triple-safe-at-the-ready action.
And the frame.
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Old 02-27-2010, 16:23   #6
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I wonder how the Glock will fare when it's 100 years old, or any other fantastic plastic for that matter. There is a reason the venerable 1911s are still made.
A reason that is amply demonstrated by shooting a good one.
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Old 02-27-2010, 16:27   #7
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I've never been an apostle: don't like it, don't shoot it. -Not my problem.
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Old 02-27-2010, 16:41   #8
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I've never been an apostle: don't like it, don't shoot it. -Not my problem.
No? But the 1911 forum interests you?
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Old 02-27-2010, 17:21   #9
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The Glock pistol will still be around in some form or another (laser or not) in 100 years because the aggressive grip angle and the low bore axis make it easy to instinctively point and shoot.
And the triple-safe-at-the-ready action.
And the frame.
I would like to see a 100 year old Glock specimen being fired.
Barring the company going out of business, I can see there being the brand still around. I would like to know how the polymer frame will fare.
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Old 02-27-2010, 17:52   #10
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when asked by younger guys about why I pack the heavy old gun, I ask if they want to shoot against it for beer money. So far, I've been drinking for free.
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Old 02-27-2010, 18:07   #11
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I like the 1911. I've been shooting and enjoying one or more of them for 30 years. Currently I have a SA Mil-Spec in (surprise!) .45 ACP that is a pleasure to own and shoot. I am very pleased with it. I also have a G-22 with which I am very well pleased. It is light, accurate, powerful and supremely reliable. It goes with me in the car when I am on a road trip and at home occupies the nightstand in the bedroom. Either pistol would be fine for just about any use to which one might put a handgun. 100 years from now may God bless America to be free with our Constitutional rights intact. May God bless America to be a country where we will be able to buy all the 1911's and Glock's and other handguns we might want.
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Old 02-27-2010, 18:18   #12
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It seems everyone, and I do mean everyone shoots better with the John Moses Browning design.
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Old 02-27-2010, 18:39   #13
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Originally Posted by Quack View Post
we to the range today with some friends.
i went to finally shoot my XDm and M&P9 Pro.






as for the polymer's it seemed that between the Glock, XDm (w/ Springer trigger kit) and M&P9 Pro (w/ apex sear), the favorite was the M&P, followed by the Glock (though after shooting the 1911's it naturally pointed high) and the least favorite of the 3 was the XDm.

the favorite of the day were the 1911's
I have the XDm9 and the M&P Pro9 too. The M&P Pro has by a long shot, the better trigger between the two. The XDm9 trigger is very mushy, but it is a shooter. I'm seriously considering a trigger job on it. Neither has near the trigger of my Kimber Target II in 9mm, but the M&P Pro9 comes in a very close second. That gun has a great trigger for a poly framed combat pistol. Love'em all
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Old 02-27-2010, 18:44   #14
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It seems everyone, and I do mean everyone shoots better with the John Moses Browning design.
Possible exception being the P7 HK.
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Old 02-27-2010, 19:03   #15
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I have the XDm9 and the M&P Pro9 too. The M&P Pro has by a long shot, the better trigger between the two. The XDm9 trigger is very mushy, but it is a shooter. I'm seriously considering a trigger job on it. Neither has near the trigger of my Kimber Target II in 9mm, but the M&P Pro9 comes in a very close second. That gun has a great trigger for a poly framed combat pistol. Love'em all
even with the Springer Precision trigger kit in, the XDm still feels mushy.

The Apex sear in the M&P gives it a shorter reset and the trigger pull is also lighter. now it's as short as the XDm w/ Springer

bac, i'll trade you the XDm for a 1911
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Old 02-27-2010, 19:27   #16
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Possible exception being the P7 HK.

I fully agree with you on this!

I have my Glocks, I have my Sigs, I have my 1911s and I have my M8.

I like the 1911 and the M8 out of all of them. The Sigs come in a close second.

As for the Glocks being around in a 100 years...I remember back a few years ago reading an article about a Glock from 1988 (IIRC) that had to go back to Glock to have the lower replaced. It had something to do with the polymer degrading over the years because of sun, weather and natural elements.
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Old 02-27-2010, 19:46   #17
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I wonder how the Glock will fare when it's 100 years old, or any other fantastic plastic for that matter. There is a reason the venerable 1911s are still made.
Very true.
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Old 02-27-2010, 21:29   #18
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I fully agree with you on this!

I have my Glocks, I have my Sigs, I have my 1911s and I have my M8.

I like the 1911 and the M8 out of all of them. The Sigs come in a close second.

As for the Glocks being around in a 100 years...I remember back a few years ago reading an article about a Glock from 1988 (IIRC) that had to go back to Glock to have the lower replaced. It had something to do with the polymer degrading over the years because of sun, weather and natural elements.
I like and respect the 1911-pattern guns, but let's be real... In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month... then let's shoot them both until they stop. I know which one I'm betting to be the last pistol still firing.

Respect for one design should not mandate disdain for all others, there are lots of kool-aid drinkers on both sides, but in the middle are those with sense and an open mind.
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Old 02-27-2010, 22:27   #19
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I like and respect the 1911-pattern guns, but let's be real... In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month... then let's shoot them both until they stop. I know which one I'm betting to be the last pistol still firing.

Respect for one design should not mandate disdain for all others, there are lots of kool-aid drinkers on both sides, but in the middle are those with sense and an open mind.
You make valid points. And certainly your point of extremes (frankly deliberate firearm abuse) holds water, but my perspective is I want the pistol that will allow me the highest degree of shooting performance given the level of firearm care that I will be providing.
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Old 02-27-2010, 23:32   #20
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Originally Posted by Quack View Post
we to the range today with some friends.
i went to finally shoot my XDm and M&P9 Pro.
don't worry, i had too my Wilson, Brown & STI with me as well.

my one friend just got a mil-spec, so he was breaking it in.
i loaded up a few mags for my other friend to shoot my Brown.
his first shot was a bullseye @ 7yards, which is pretty good because he would be lucky to do that with any of the other guns. the rest of the mag and the 2nd mag were about an inch.

i then loaded 2 mags, moved the target out to 15yards and handed him the Wilson Longslide. his 2 mag group was ~2". now he's really liking the 1911's.

he also shot the STI pretty well too. now he's pretty set on getting a 1911 .

as for the polymer's it seemed that between the Glock, XDm (w/ Springer trigger kit) and M&P9 Pro (w/ apex sear), the favorite was the M&P, followed by the Glock (though after shooting the 1911's it naturally pointed high) and the least favorite of the 3 was the XDm.

the favorite of the day were the 1911's
Yeah, the 1911s will always steal the show at the range.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:12   #21
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You make valid points. And certainly your point of extremes (frankly deliberate firearm abuse) holds water, but my perspective is I want the pistol that will allow me the highest degree of shooting performance given the level of firearm care that I will be providing.
I have no argument against what a person wants... just find the smear campaigns by one group of design-fans against others patently silly.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:18   #22
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I like and respect the 1911-pattern guns, but let's be real... In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month... then let's shoot them both until they stop. I know which one I'm betting to be the last pistol still firing.

Respect for one design should not mandate disdain for all others, there are lots of kool-aid drinkers on both sides, but in the middle are those with sense and an open mind.

Ok.

You put up both guns and I'll put up a thousand rounds of ammunition.

You win, you get to keep what's left of the ammo. I win, I walk away laughing at you for leaving your guns out in the weather.

Why is it that the Glock fans will always say "Let's leave our guns out in the weather for a month and we'll see which one still works"? Tell me, how many of you shooters out there actually leave your guns sitting out in the "weather" for a month?

I know for a fact, that I have put weapons through more abuse than just leaving them out in the "Weather". I've been in all types of weather with many different firearms. Rain, snow, sleet, desert, ocean, rivers, etc...Never had a weapon fail me.

I love how everyone swears a Glock will work no matter what. I guess you missed the threads with all of the Glock failures.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:46   #23
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In fact, let's leave a 1911 pattern gun, and a Glock out in the weather for just a month...
can you name once instance where this would be relevant outside of Glock sales pitch or fanboy talk?

how about throwing a glock and a 1911 in a fire for an hour and seeing which one works afterwards?

both the Glock and the 1911's have proven themselves in real world use.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:09   #24
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Ok.

You put up both guns and I'll put up a thousand rounds of ammunition.

You win, you get to keep what's left of the ammo. I win, I walk away laughing at you for leaving your guns out in the weather.

Why is it that the Glock fans will always say "Let's leave our guns out in the weather for a month and we'll see which one still works"? Tell me, how many of you shooters out there actually leave your guns sitting out in the "weather" for a month?

I know for a fact, that I have put weapons through more abuse than just leaving them out in the "Weather". I've been in all types of weather with many different firearms. Rain, snow, sleet, desert, ocean, rivers, etc...Never had a weapon fail me.

I love how everyone swears a Glock will work no matter what. I guess you missed the threads with all of the Glock failures.

How soon can you be in Dallas?

Actually, I'm a fan of both designs, but perhaps you are are not.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:11   #25
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....

both the Glock and the 1911's have proven themselves in real world use.

And THAT was my point... different designs, yes, but both worthy of respect. They will react differently to different abuse, but properly cared for, and taking time to learn them, they will both serve.... bashing one in favor of the other, as I said from the outset... is silly!

I was answering a "the elements will deteriorate a Glock" assertion with one of my own... just as silly as the first.

I'll head out back with the PM9 and 34 while y'all un-bunch your panties.
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