[Dragoon44]

i also have a chip on my shoulder for people who think they can or should force their interpretation of the morals outlined in a book written by men thousands of years ago on everyone else.

hmmm then I guess you don't have a problem with folks that have issues with others who try to push THEIR interpretations of a document written by men 200 years ago on everyone else right?

[BleedNOrange]

Originally Posted by Dragoon44

hmmm then I guess you don't have a problem with folks that have issues with others who try to push THEIR interpretations of a document written by men 200 years ago on everyone else right?

Was just about to say the same thing. I think we have got to the root of his problem.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by Dragoon44

hmmm then I guess you don't have a problem with folks that have issues with others who try to push THEIR interpretations of a document written by men 200 years ago on everyone else right?

i sure don't.

of course, when those "others" who are "pushing their interpretations" are the courts, you kinda have to live with it...

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by BleedNOrange

Was just about to say the same thing. I think we have got to the root of his problem.

and i think you need to practice your reading comprehension.

[BleedNOrange]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

and i think you need to practice your reading comprehension.

Says the guy that starts sentences in lower case and with the word "and".

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by BleedNOrange

Says the guy that starts sentences in lower case and with the word "and".

comprehension and grammar are two entirely different things, of course.

this is just an internet forum...which, to me, is the equivalent of sitting around the barbershop or "jack's garage" BSing. i write here like i'm writing on an internet forum...or engaging in debate at the local barbershop.

on point, though, if you go back and read what i have written, you will see that i do not have any problem with people (LEOs or otherwise) taking issue with someone other than the courts trying to force others to act according to their interpretation of the constitution.

what i have issues with is government agents who think they do not have to respect the rules laid down by the courts.

at any rate, i think many of us are basing our arguments on very different understandings of the "givens" in the debate...and, thus, we are not really understanding what the other side is really saying. (i include myself in that...i may well have misunderstood what madcity was really saying for example. but i am certainly not the only one who seems to have done that.)

[BleedNOrange]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

comprehension and grammar are two entirely different things, of course.

this is just an internet forum...which, to me, is the equivalent of sitting around the barbershop or "jack's garage" BSing. i write here like i'm writing on an internet forum...or engaging in debate at the local barbershop.

on point, though, if you go back and read what i have written, you will see that i do not have any problem with people (LEOs or otherwise) taking issue with someone other than the courts trying to force others to act according to their interpretation of the constitution.

what i have issues with is government agents who think they do not have to respect the rules laid down by the courts.

at any rate, i think many of us are basing our arguments on very different understandings of the "givens" in the debate...and, thus, we are not really understanding what the other side is really saying. (i include myself in that...i may well have misunderstood what madcity was really saying for example. but i am certainly not the only one who seems to have done that.)

It is my opinion that you have a problem with any authority, be it God, police, government etc. Of course this is my opinion and it along with around a dollar will get you a fountain drink at the local stop n rob. Have a nice day.

[Dragoon44]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

i sure don't.

of course, when those "others" who are "pushing their interpretations" are the courts, you kinda have to live with it...

Very true

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by BleedNOrange

It is my opinion that you have a problem with any authority, be it God, police, government etc.

that is somewhat close to true. i only have a problem with authority when it is improperly or unnecessarily exercised, though...when it violates an individual's fundamental rights to life, liberty, and/or the pursuit of happiness (as long as you are not hurting anyone else)--or when there is just no need to exercise it.

but, that is, imho, a healthy thing. i'm sure many disagree.

[LApm9]

Originally Posted by BleedNOrange

It is my opinion that you have a problem with any authority, be it God, police, government etc. Of course this is my opinion and it along with around a dollar will get you a fountain drink at the local stop n rob. Have a nice day.

This made me smile. I used to have a problem with authority until I got some. I am much more cooperative and respectful now that I have seen it from the other side.

Power can either corrupt or humble.

[TBO]

[Line Rider]

Should Law Enforcement Respond to Every Open Carry Man With a Gun 911 Call?

Yes, we have to respond. Who knows why he is carrying open.

If he is only being civilly disobedient to make a point and respectfully, I would tell him to remove he gun while we talked. Then I would right him a trespassing warning. I would warning him about carring open and tell him to leave the property. If he wants to be stupid then he goes to jail for disorderly conduct and more than likely resisting arrest.

Code of Alabama

Section 13A-11-7
Disorderly conduct.
(a) A person commits the crime of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:

(1) Engages in fighting or in violent tumultuous or threatening behavior; or

(2) Makes unreasonable noise; or

(3) In a public place uses abusive or obscene language or makes an obscene gesture; or

(4) Without lawful authority, disturbs any lawful assembly or meeting of persons; or

(5) Obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic, or a transportation facility; or

(6) Congregates with other person in a public place and refuses to comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse.

(b) Disorderly conduct is a Class C misdemeanor.

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §5525.)

[Jon_R]

It is a long thread so maybe you are replying to something long after the OP. The OP was a person OCing where legal and not doing anything other then OCing and someone not the property owner called in a MWAG to 911.

You would write the open carrier a warning? Warn him about OC and tell him to leave?

Originally Posted by Line Rider

Should Law Enforcement Respond to Every Open Carry Man With a Gun 911 Call?

Yes, we have to respond. Who knows why he is carrying open.

If he is only being civilly disobedient to make a point and respectfully, I would tell him to remove he gun while we talked. Then I would right him a trespassing warning. I would warning him about carring open and tell him to leave the property. If he wants to be stupid then he goes to jail for disorderly conduct and more than likely resisting arrest.

Code of Alabama

Section 13A-11-7
Disorderly conduct.
(a) A person commits the crime of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:

(1) Engages in fighting or in violent tumultuous or threatening behavior; or

(2) Makes unreasonable noise; or

(3) In a public place uses abusive or obscene language or makes an obscene gesture; or

(4) Without lawful authority, disturbs any lawful assembly or meeting of persons; or

(5) Obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic, or a transportation facility; or

(6) Congregates with other person in a public place and refuses to comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse.

(b) Disorderly conduct is a Class C misdemeanor.

(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §5525.)

[Line Rider]

Like I said I'd right him a trespass warning for being in a public place mall, store ect. tell him NOT of carry a gun open in public because that is illegal in Alabama. We can only carry concealed with a permit, unless you LEO or retired LEO. I would rather NOT have to put the guy in jail, but if I have to I will.

IF you don't like the law then you'll have to go to Montgomery to change it. My DA says open carry in public is illegal.

[Jon_R]

Originally Posted by Line Rider

Like I said I'd right him a trespass warning for being in a public place mall, store ect. tell him NOT of carry a gun open in public because that is illegal in Alabama. We can only carry concealed with a permit, unless you LEO or retired LEO. I would rather NOT have to put the guy in jail, but if I have to I will.

Somebody should update this site.

http://www.opencarry.org/al.html

[WarCry]

Originally Posted by Jon_R

Somebody should update this site.

http://www.opencarry.org/al.html

There's a great link at the bottom of that page, an opinion from the AL AG in 1984 - http://www.ago.state.al.us/oldopinions/8400205.pdf

Unless there's been a more recent decision, that pretty well sums up the argument.


I think this is a good example of showing that police are not lawyers or legislators. They don't know the specific law on the book. But the correct answer if an officer comes up like this is NOT to argue with them. Take the ticket, leave the property if they ask you to, and take your day in court. Standing on the street and arguing with a cop is, frankly, stupid.

Yes, police should respond to calls like this, as has been stated many times. Responding does NOT mean they're going to make an arrest, issue a ticket, etc. It means they're going to investigate, and once they've established no law is being broken (provided that's the case), then they go about their business.

Contrary to (apparently) popular belief, the police are not violating your civil rights by asking you a few questions. They're responding to concerns of you neighbors, and those neighbors also have a right to feel safe. If an investigation like this is what it takes, so be it.

That said, if the SAME neighbor calls over and over for the SAME person carrying, even after they've been told there's no issue, then it's a problem of harassment. But that's something that comes later, after the initial call.

[FiremanMike]

Hey while we're living in this imaginary world where legal liabilities and sue happy lib-tards don't exsist, can we get it so the medics can stop going on calls of "I've been sick for a week" or "my back hurts".

[RussP]

Originally Posted by Jon_R

Somebody should update this site.

http://www.opencarry.org/al.html

Originally Posted by Line Rider

Like I said I'd right him a trespass warning for being in a public place mall, store ect. tell him NOT of carry a gun open in public because that is illegal in Alabama. We can only carry concealed with a permit, unless you LEO or retired LEO. I would rather NOT have to put the guy in jail, but if I have to I will.

IF you don't like the law then you'll have to go to Montgomery to change it. My DA says open carry in public is illegal.

Can you run the attached pdf file by him and ask if he has a more recent opinion?

Thanks!!

[Patchman]

I would LOVE to have the legislature pass a law, or the courts rule, that LE cannot respond to a MWAG until at least 4 or 6 or 8 (or whatever) callers (from different phone numbers, etc...) call one in. Or that LE can use discretion in not responding to such calls.

[alba666]

Originally Posted by Line Rider

Like I said I'd right him a trespass warning for being in a public place mall, store ect. tell him NOT of carry a gun open in public because that is illegal in Alabama. We can only carry concealed with a permit, unless you LEO or retired LEO. I would rather NOT have to put the guy in jail, but if I have to I will.

IF you don't like the law then you'll have to go to Montgomery to change it. My DA says open carry in public is illegal.

I'm sorry, your DA is illegally legislating from behind his office desk just like every sheriff and LEO in Alabama is on this issue. LEO's don't LIKE OC (which is LEGAL in Alabama, if you read the laws you are enforcing), so they misuse the Disorderly Conduct law to harass citizens following the law. Also, the misstatements used by sheriff's on CCW permits such as "this permit does not allow open carry" are misleading BS to further perpetuate this fraud. Once SB360 becomes law to prevent employers from having policies preventing employees from storing firearms in their cars , the next thing needs to be to cleaned up are the OC and CCW laws in Alabama to explicitly prevent the suppression of OC in these ways. The sponsor of the house equivalent of SB360 has the issue on his list of legislative ideas.

[silverado_mick]

Originally Posted by alba666

*SNIP* LEO's don't LIKE OC *SNIP*

Thank you very much for providing me with my opinion.


For the record, alba666 doesn't like LEO's, or puppies, or apple pie.

[alba666]

Originally Posted by silverado_mick

Thank you very much for providing me with my opinion.


For the record, alba666 doesn't like LEO's, or puppies, or apple pie.

Yeah, I went on a bit of a rant there. Most of my LEO encounters have been very professional, so if I left the impression I am a LEO hater I was out of line. When my house alarm goes off, I know I only have to deal with about 2-3 minutes on my own before 2 different LEO departments are there. You just can't ask for a faster response time nowadays.

I just really hate misinformation pushed as authoritative and people who are supposed to enforce law (i.e. a D.A or Sheriff) creating it by intimidation and manipulation of people trying to follow the law. The OC issue is just one example of this problem.

[TBO]

Originally Posted by alba666

Yeah, I went on a bit of a rant there. Most of my LEO encounters have been very professional, so if I left the impression I am a LEO hater I was out of line. When my house alarm goes off, I know I only have to deal with about 2-3 minutes on my own before 2 different LEO departments are there. You just can't ask for a faster response time nowadays.

I just really hate misinformation pushed as authoritative and people who are supposed to enforce law (i.e. a D.A or Sheriff) creating it by intimidation and manipulation of people trying to follow the law. The OC issue is just one example of this problem.

So if you "hate disinformation"...

Originally Posted by alba666

I'm sorry, your DA is illegally legislating from behind his office desk just like every sheriff and LEO in Alabama is on this issue. LEO's don't LIKE OC (which is LEGAL in Alabama, if you read the laws you are enforcing), so they misuse the Disorderly Conduct law to harass citizens following the law. Also, the misstatements used by sheriff's on CCW permits such as "this permit does not allow open carry" are misleading BS to further perpetuate this fraud. Once SB360 becomes law to prevent employers from having policies preventing employees from storing firearms in their cars , the next thing needs to be to cleaned up are the OC and CCW laws in Alabama to explicitly prevent the suppression of OC in these ways. The sponsor of the house equivalent of SB360 has the issue on his list of legislative ideas.

[Ktmexperiment]

After reading the first few posts, I just remembered why I don't come in here that often.

:bangs head against the wall:


Think people.............stop and think.


Sounds to me like the original scenario described in the first post isn't the real issue...........only an open door for others to vent about their own carry issues and LEO encounters.

:bangs head against wall even harder:

[kirgi08]

Just post it,they will reply.'08.