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Old 03-07-2010, 19:14   #1
MJB
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Shotgun dilemma for HD

As we all know there are pros and cons to the decision of primary HD weapon.

Currently I consider my G19 to be my primary HD weapon. Big pluses are one handed operation and I get lots of practice time. Big minus is handguns are not great man stoppers.

So, I'm thinking 12ga is a better choice and I'm sure I'll find lots of agreement here.

So I could have my Stevens SxS cut down to 18 1/4" and have a fiber optic sight put on it or I could get a tactical specific shotgun and leave the Stevens alone. I've owned the Stevens since 1983 and I don't hunt anymore so the idea of cutting it doesn't really bother me. But something like a Mossberg 500 is really inexpensive and has more firepower (I'm sorry I sold the one I used to have back in 82).

I'm in suburban Chicago 40 miles west of the city. Most clubs are for trap, skeet and sporting clays etc. I wouldn't know where to go to pattern some 00 buck.

So that's the dilemma, whaddya think?
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Old 03-07-2010, 19:43   #2
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If you can't practice with it then don't use it. Trigger time is the more important then the shotgun you are using and if there are no ranges in your area and no access to private land to shot on then you are placing yourself at a disavantage. Stick with your handgun. Any hand gun is a man stopped when you use it effectively and you get a lot of trigger time with it so go with it.
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Last edited by aippi; 03-15-2010 at 21:48..
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Old 03-07-2010, 20:58   #3
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If you decide to cut that Stevens down, be sure that you'll be 26.5" OAL with the barrels that short. Doubles and singles don't have the long receiver that repeaters do, and may not meet the overall length even if the barrels are legal.
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Old 03-08-2010, 16:52   #4
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Thanks guys.

method, OAL measured from muzzle end to where? I wouldn't cut the stock so if it is to the stock buttplate it's not an issue.
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Old 03-08-2010, 17:23   #5
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I'd sell it before I'd cut the barrels.
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Old 03-08-2010, 17:28   #6
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Buy a cheap deer/turkey gun. I did. Choke tubes, fiber optic, Limbsaver pad, camo, 22", 5+1.

Does it all. Considering how many HD guns there are for the few opportunities to use 'em, seemed sensible to get a general purpose tool. There just ain't enough mutant ninja zombie bikers to go around..
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Old 03-08-2010, 17:35   #7
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I'd pick up a Maverick 88 and leave your SxS alone. $200 for a rock solid gun there is really no excuse. There is NO range in the area where you can set up a paper target and shoot shotgun? I find that hard to believe. My range is not set up for this but when it's a slow day there I run one of the stands in close and shoot buck shot at about 20 feet.

That said, I don't see anything wrong with a pistol for home defense. I have my Glock ready in the night stand. 18 rounds of 9mm will ruin a BGs night.
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Old 03-08-2010, 19:51   #8
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I'd pick up a Maverick 88 and leave your SxS alone. $200 for a rock solid gun there is really no excuse. There is NO range in the area where you can set up a paper target and shoot shotgun? I find that hard to believe. My range is not set up for this but when it's a slow day there I run one of the stands in close and shoot buck shot at about 20 feet.

That said, I don't see anything wrong with a pistol for home defense. I have my Glock ready in the night stand. 18 rounds of 9mm will ruin a BGs night.
Yeah, I need to do a little more searching for a place to shoot at something other than clays. The Stevens hasn't been shot in 20 years so I'm probably looking for an excuse to do something with it. I suppose I could look into Cowboy Action Shooting but I don't know much about it.

Back in the 70s I had a Mossberg 500 cut to 18 1/2" and a Polychoke on it, I'm sorry I sold it.

Thanks for the replies!
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Old 03-08-2010, 20:48   #9
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If you can't practice with it then don't use it. Trigger time is the more important then the shotgun you are using and if their are no ranges in your area and no access to private land to shot on then you are placing yourself at a disavantage. Stick with your handgun. Any hand gun is a man stopped when you use it effectively and you get a lot of trigger time with it so go with it.


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Old 03-08-2010, 21:27   #10
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I don't want to give the perception that I don't believe in range time, but it's not that important with a scattergun. I bought a Maverick 88 and keep it in the bedroom. I keep the magazine full and the chamber empty with the trigger pulled. Other than dry, the gun has never been fired. If the occasion to grab it in the night ever comes I'm betting 95% that when I rack it in an otherwise quiet house, there won't be anyone still in the house to shoot at. That is an awesome sound and everyone recognizes what it is.
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Old 03-08-2010, 22:21   #11
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Originally Posted by Havasu View Post
I don't want to give the perception that I don't believe in range time, but it's not that important with a scattergun. I bought a Maverick 88 and keep it in the bedroom. I keep the magazine full and the chamber empty with the trigger pulled. Other than dry, the gun has never been fired. If the occasion to grab it in the night ever comes I'm betting 95% that when I rack it in an otherwise quiet house, there won't be anyone still in the house to shoot at. That is an awesome sound and everyone recognizes what it is.
This is just bad advice. You seriously keep a shotgun for HD but have never fired it? Its not like the movies where you rack it and they run or if you have to fire they don't get blown out of their shoes. I recommend that you take a shotgun class with Louis Awerbuck or Rob Haught they both will show you have to run a shotgun.
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Old 03-08-2010, 22:23   #12
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Originally Posted by MJB View Post
I'm in suburban Chicago 40 miles west of the city. Most clubs are for trap, skeet and sporting clays etc. I wouldn't know where to go to pattern some 00 buck.

So that's the dilemma, whaddya think?
I agree with APPI to stick with your Glock because your able to train with it but have you tried looking at some indoor ranges? Some do let you shoot shotguns.
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Old 03-08-2010, 23:48   #13
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I would rather have a pump shotgun for home defense than a side by side.

I would spend the money on a maverick 88/mossberg/870 and sell the stevens if you don't want it, or just keep it.

2 shots would probably be enough for most home defense encounters, but then again so would a good pistol. If you want to take the time and have the best possible home defense gun, a pump or semi auto shotgun is the way to go.

And I fully agree that a pistol and training time is better than a shotgun and no training.

Last edited by tel0004; 03-08-2010 at 23:49..
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Old 03-09-2010, 17:34   #14
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I would rather have a pump shotgun for home defense than a side by side.

I would spend the money on a maverick 88/mossberg/870 and sell the stevens if you don't want it, or just keep it.

2 shots would probably be enough for most home defense encounters, but then again so would a good pistol. If you want to take the time and have the best possible home defense gun, a pump or semi auto shotgun is the way to go.

And I fully agree that a pistol and training time is better than a shotgun and no training.
The Stevens does have some sentimental value. The first two shells I fired in it resulted in two dead ducks and I took my share of geese with it as well. I should probably leave it alone and maybe see if I can get some goose pit time in again. I had many years of fun shooting from a hole in the middle of a corn field.

The farms I used to hunt are all subdivisions now, I really miss the 70s.
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:07   #15
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You can go to the Kenosha Conservation Club in Bristol Wisconsin, its just North of the (Lake county/Antioch area) border. You can shoot slugs and pattern there too with birdshot and buck shot.
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Old 03-15-2010, 12:08   #16
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Originally Posted by method View Post
If you decide to cut that Stevens down, be sure that you'll be 26.5" OAL with the barrels that short. Doubles and singles don't have the long receiver that repeaters do, and may not meet the overall length even if the barrels are legal.
This is the very reason I didn't get a beat up old Stevens for $100. It was one of those old old guns....... that just begged to be chopped down into the Dbl Barrel hand cannons on movies.


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Old 03-15-2010, 15:56   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havasu View Post
I don't want to give the perception that I don't believe in range time, but it's not that important with a scattergun. I bought a Maverick 88 and keep it in the bedroom. I keep the magazine full and the chamber empty with the trigger pulled. Other than dry, the gun has never been fired. If the occasion to grab it in the night ever comes I'm betting 95% that when I rack it in an otherwise quiet house, there won't be anyone still in the house to shoot at. That is an awesome sound and everyone recognizes what it is.
This is just about the worst advice I've come across in a LONG time.
1. Shotguns do still need to be aimed.
2. Never firing your home defense gun is simply insane.
3. I've never seen one single documented case where simply the sound of a shotgun being pumped has discouraged an attacker (and I've looked).

Aippi has it right. Stick with what you know until you can find another place to practice.

bc
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Old 03-15-2010, 18:40   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aippi View Post
If you can't practice with it then don't use it. Trigger time is the more important then the shotgun you are using and if their are no ranges in your area and no access to private land to shot on then you are placing yourself at a disavantage. Stick with your handgun. Any hand gun is a man stopped when you use it effectively and you get a lot of trigger time with it so go with it.
Very good advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havasu
I don't want to give the perception that I don't believe in range time, but it's not that important with a scattergun. I bought a Maverick 88 and keep it in the bedroom. I keep the magazine full and the chamber empty with the trigger pulled. Other than dry, the gun has never been fired. If the occasion to grab it in the night ever comes I'm betting 95% that when I rack it in an otherwise quiet house, there won't be anyone still in the house to shoot at. That is an awesome sound and everyone recognizes what it is.
This is about the worst advice I've seen in a while. Wait...someone already said that.

I'm with everyone else with saying to stick to the pistol. You'll find it better than a shotgun for HD for many reasons other than you already know it inside and out (hopefully). If you're worried about assailants with body armor, practice a variety of fail-stop (mozambique) drills (2 to the chest 1 to the head and 2 to the chest, want to the pelvic girdle).
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Old 03-15-2010, 22:46   #19
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I just bought a Glock 19 to use for mainly range, but to keep as a backup for HD purposes. My main HD gun is a Benelli SuperNova tactical... a little overkill for HD but it's one the best shotguns I've shot (and I've shot a lot Mossbergs and Remmingtons, not saying those aren't bad in any way).

Right now I shoot a lot more accurate with my Benelli than the Glock (with 00 buckshot and slugs, I'm dead on at 75 yards) as I've taken tactical courses with it, so I'm more comfortable using that for HD if needed. However if you're more comfortable with your Glock, then by all means use that.
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Old 03-23-2010, 20:35   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post
As we all know there are pros and cons to the decision of primary HD weapon.

Currently I consider my G19 to be my primary HD weapon. Big pluses are one handed operation and I get lots of practice time. Big minus is handguns are not great man stoppers.

So, I'm thinking 12ga is a better choice and I'm sure I'll find lots of agreement here.

So I could have my Stevens SxS cut down to 18 1/4" and have a fiber optic sight put on it or I could get a tactical specific shotgun and leave the Stevens alone. I've owned the Stevens since 1983 and I don't hunt anymore so the idea of cutting it doesn't really bother me. But something like a Mossberg 500 is really inexpensive and has more firepower (I'm sorry I sold the one I used to have back in 82).

I'm in suburban Chicago 40 miles west of the city. Most clubs are for trap, skeet and sporting clays etc. I wouldn't know where to go to pattern some 00 buck.

So that's the dilemma, whaddya think?
Check out Indiana for public ranges.
Big non crowded free & nice and clean.
That's where I used to go when I lived in Chicago.
It's a drive but very enjoyable for a day trip.
Been a while so make a phone call and talk to them about locations and regs.
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Old 03-23-2010, 21:52   #21
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I dont think ppl realize that the pattern of a 12ga HD shotgun is not like in the videogames/movies. At HD ranges, even 00buck patterns about the size of a fist.
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Old 03-24-2010, 18:32   #22
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I dont think ppl realize that the pattern of a 12ga HD shotgun is not like in the videogames/movies. At HD ranges, even 00buck patterns about the size of a fist.
I realize that. I also realize my fist is a hella lot bigger than 9mm.
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Old 03-24-2010, 19:21   #23
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You can pattern at Maxon's in Des Plaines. On the other hand since you are 40 miles from the city you might call J&R in Aurora. I have heard you can shoot shotgun there but I have never done it so phone first.

Go to Cabelas by RT59 and I90 and pick up some boxes of the Federal Vital Shok 9P 00BK with Flite Control or the Hornaday TAP FPD if you can find it. Those two loads seem to pattern well in just about anything.
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Old 03-25-2010, 17:14   #24
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You can pattern at Maxon's in Des Plaines. On the other hand since you are 40 miles from the city you might call J&R in Aurora. I have heard you can shoot shotgun there but I have never done it so phone first.

Go to Cabelas by RT59 and I90 and pick up some boxes of the Federal Vital Shok 9P 00BK with Flite Control or the Hornaday TAP FPD if you can find it. Those two loads seem to pattern well in just about anything.
I shoot my handguns at JR's frequently. I know you can shoot slugs there but I don't think they allow buckshot.

I was there one day and a guy hit the rail with a 12ga slug and they shut down the range while the RO figured out why the guy's target wouldn't retrieve. He was not happy.

Can you give me more info on Maxon's?
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Old 03-25-2010, 18:33   #25
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I shoot my handguns at JR's frequently. I know you can shoot slugs there but I don't think they allow buckshot.

I was there one day and a guy hit the rail with a 12ga slug and they shut down the range while the RO figured out why the guy's target wouldn't retrieve. He was not happy.

Can you give me more info on Maxon's?
http://www.maxonshooters.com/

They have a 50ft range with a rubber backstop so it is safe to shoot buckshot there.
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