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Old 03-24-2010, 17:32   #1
kenzo
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S&w 1006

I have a G20SF and love it. I'm new to the 10mm world and thinking about a Smith 1006. Anyone have one? How does it compare to the G20SF as far ad recoil?
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Old 03-24-2010, 18:13   #2
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I have both (not the SF though) and both are fantastic and shoot very nicely; the 1006 is heavier and has less felt recoil overall but the 20 is a sweet shooter and very manageable as well.
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Old 03-24-2010, 19:37   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usurp31 View Post
I have both (not the SF though) and both are fantastic and shoot very nicely; the 1006 is heavier and has less felt recoil overall but the 20 is a sweet shooter and very manageable as well.
Can you shoot 40 S&W out of a 1006 without modifications?
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Old 03-24-2010, 22:09   #4
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You can NEVER shoot .40 S&W out of a 10mm autoloader barrel.
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Old 03-24-2010, 22:13   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenzo View Post
Can you shoot 40 S&W out of a 1006 without modifications?
I'm pretty sure you can. After all, it's a revolver...
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Old 03-24-2010, 22:59   #6
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Originally Posted by 10mmmofo View Post
I'm pretty sure you can. After all, it's a revolver...
Can't tell if this was sarcasm or not, the 1006 is not a revolver. If you're mistaken, you're thinking of the Model 610.
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Old 03-24-2010, 23:02   #7
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I shoot 40 S&W for my S&W1006 but it is because I have a Bar-Sto Match Grade conversion barrel chambered for the 40S&W I also have Bar-Sto Match Grade 9X25Dillon conversion this adds some extra value and flexibility to this platform.

The 40's are cheaper to shoot and saves my 10mm brass for more pressing power situations the 10 is known for! I love my S&W 10xx pistols and also the glock 29 which is now my carry piece.

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Old 03-25-2010, 04:00   #8
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I'm just sayin', match the ammo to the gun, unless it's a revolver (.357 & .38, etc.). Try a conversion barrel. Sorry for sarcasm...
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:35   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usurp31 View Post
I have both (not the SF though) and both are fantastic and shoot very nicely; the 1006 is heavier and has less felt recoil overall but the 20 is a sweet shooter and very manageable as well.
Ditto this ... I also have both.

FWIW, the real difference (besides plastic vs. steel) is: the 1006 uses a single-stack frame (for 9+1 capacity), which makes it a very slim-packing pistol if concealment is a priority, whereas the G20 is known for its double-stack girth - but then that's what also permits its higher 15+1 capacity.

There's no downside to getting both, but with the right holster & belt combination, the 1006, though heavier, conceals better for me.

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Old 03-25-2010, 04:37   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenzo View Post
Can you shoot 40 S&W out of a 1006 without modifications?
Safely?

You're best advised to get an aftermarket .40S&W barrel for it, and preferably to have it fitted.

Bar-Sto used to offer these and may still have some in stock.

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Old 03-25-2010, 12:27   #11
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Bar_Sto has ceased producing any barrels for the 10xx series pistols and group buys for them have fallen by the wayside...basicly 50 barrels, paid upfront, all the same before they would consider...like $155 each piece. We tried to get a group buy of 50 357Sig conversions but that deal fell through.

It's a damn shame too because these 10xx series are tough and work well with the conversion barrel process.

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Old 03-25-2010, 16:34   #12
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Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Bar_Sto has ceased producing any barrels for the 10xx series pistols and group buys for them have fallen by the wayside...basicly 50 barrels, paid upfront, all the same before they would consider...like $155 each piece. We tried to get a group buy of 50 357Sig conversions but that deal fell through.

It's a damn shame too because these 10xx series are tough and work well with the conversion barrel process.
Best regards!
Wow ... That's too bad, and I've found that Bar-Sto barrels are GTG.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:37   #13
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Howzabout a S&W 610? That way you don't have to go chasing your brass around.

I'm going to get one sooner or later, just have to wait for the gun piggy bank to grow.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceO View Post
You can NEVER shoot .40 S&W out of a 10mm autoloader barrel.
Works fine in my Glock. I ran a whole box of .40 through it just to try it, and other than needing to clean the chamber out afterwords, it worked great. I don't make a habit out of it (I have .40S&W guns too) but it's nice to know that it works fine if I need it too.
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Old 03-29-2010, 23:20   #15
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Oh it will either go bang or the firing pin/striker will kick it off the extractor either before or during the the ignition of the primer. If the round is ignited and the cartridge is kicked forward it will slam back against the breech face and extractor, this can cause the extractor to break, primers can blow out also...not something I trust my life with!
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:02   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Oh it will either go bang or the firing pin/striker will kick it off the extractor either before or during the the ignition of the primer. If the round is ignited and the cartridge is kicked forward it will slam back against the breech face and extractor, this can cause the extractor to break, primers can blow out also...not something I trust my life with!
So youv'e seen blown out primers and broken extractors as a result of using .40 in a 10mm? Or that's just what you've read online?
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:31   #17
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AJE - you have the advantage of experience, so those of us who haven't tried it can't argue your real world results. On the other hand, though you may have shot the .40S&W rounds through your pistol, you don't know what's happening in the chamber as the round ignites.

What may be happening in your pistol is this:

- Extractor instead of breech face chambers the round. The round rides the forward part of the extractor, and the extractor never engages the round during chambering. Since the extractor is on one side of the round, this force creates a moment about the vertical axis of the round and it has the tendency to rotate as it enters the chamber, making feeding not as reliable.

- When the round ignites, the forward motion of the bullet creates a reaction force on the head of the casing, which most likely unseats the primer, pushes the casing backward into the extractor, engaging it, and then pushes the casing further still into the breech face, hitting the firing pin, which reseats the primer, and cycles the slide.

That's my best guess of what happens when a short round is fired in a long chamber. I'm not crazy about any part of that process, especially the idea of using the firing pin to reseat the primer. I agree with The Shadow in that I would't trust that configuration either. I don't need to test it out for myself for the idea to violate my standard of common sense. Much like I don't need to bang my head against rocks to see if it hurts.

Have you fired .380ACP in a 9mm chambered pistol also? Serious question.

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Old 03-30-2010, 08:13   #18
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I have not tried 380 in a 9mm. The only reason I have tried .40S&W in a 10mm is because I generally understood it to be an acceptable practice until I got on the internet and read the doom & gloom associated with it. Come to find out most of these people had not tried it when asked.

I did some messing around with mine at the time I tried it. What happened if the round did not get hooked by the extractor, and was simply dropped into the chamber, was the extractor rested on the rim of the round, and the firing pin would not reach the primer.

I could do more testing with it later, but I mainly wanted to see if it worked or not. I fired 50 rounds and they all fed and functioned just fine. I did have the scrub the chamber pretty good to get a 10mm cartridge to chamber due to the build up resulting from the shorter cartridge being fired.

I will also say that this was done using a 6" KKM 45-10mm conversion barrel and Lone Wolf 6" slide, on a G21SF frame, this was not a stock Glock 20.
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Old 03-30-2010, 08:27   #19
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So the rounds didn't headspace on the case mouth, they just kind of floated in the chamber held in place by the extractor.

How did the brass look afterward?
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:14   #20
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AJE:

You asked a question relative to real world experience vs internet rumor. Let me ask you a question.

Can you name a single autoloader manufacturer who who will validate on the record the use of ammo in a gun of their manufacture not chambered for it? Well, two questions. If it was safe, would they not note it as a selling point? The fact is that no matter how you spin it, the gun was designed for operation based on the case headspacing on the case mouth, not the extractor. Whether you can get the gun to fire with .40 S&W ammo is irrelevant. You can get all manner of rifle ammunition to fire in a mauser type controlled feed action. Does that make it OK to fire .308 in a .30-06 action? I think NOT.

http://thegunzone.com/10v40.html



Disagreeing with the manufacturer regarding the merits of firing cast bullets thru polygonal rifling is one thing but this??


P.S. I personally disagree with the author regarding the Springfield Omega.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:51   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceO View Post
AJE:

You asked a question relative to real world experience vs internet rumor. Let me ask you a question.

Can you name a single autoloader manufacturer who who will validate on the record the use of ammo in a gun of their manufacture not chambered for it? Well, two questions. If it was safe, would they not note it as a selling point? The fact is that no matter how you spin it, the gun was designed for operation based on the case headspacing on the case mouth, not the extractor. Whether you can get the gun to fire with .40 S&W ammo is irrelevant. You can get all manner of rifle ammunition to fire in a mauser type controlled feed action. Does that make it OK to fire .308 in a .30-06 action? I think NOT.



Disagreeing with the manufacturer regarding the merits of firing cast bullets thru polygonal rifling is one thing but this??
Most manufactuerers also warn against the use of reloaded ammo in their firearms.

I agree in what the firearm was designed for, and it is generally best to stick with the intended design, but your comparison to .308 and .30-06 is asinine.

HOV, I used aluminum cased Blazer, but I didn't notice anything abnormal with the fired cases.
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Old 03-30-2010, 13:06   #22
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"but your comparison to .308 and .30-06 is asinine."

OK, lets see. Firing ammo in a firearm not chambered for it because it is the same bore diameter using the extractor to headspace (the extractor holds the round against the breechface, not the case shoulder) instead of of the correct datum point.

My comparison is asinine?



I prefer to indulge in some manner of linear thought progression. You however feel that you know more that the gun's designers and manufacturers BECAUSE you supposedly are a certified armorer and based on your vast experience(one box of ammo), feel that the experts are all in error and you are, of course, obviously correct. I submit that, based on the above, you have chosen a wise course of endeavor and will become even more proficient in, judging from the views you expound.

This particular discussion has been going on for just about as long as the .40 S&W has been in existence. I have YET to see one person who's opinion I trust recommend this practice, much less some off the wall, cowboy gunzine writer. Valid technical reasons have, however, been provided in a number of published articles detailing why this practice must be avoided. Still, there are those who pop out of the woodwork and loudly proclaim that there is no problem with this. No amount of empirical data will dissuade them based on the fact that their pistol fired and temporarily, at least, functioned with the mismatched ammo.

As Burger King used to proclaim: "Have it your way".



I prefer to do it as correctly as I can, especially with firearms.
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Old 03-30-2010, 13:12   #23
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Old 03-30-2010, 19:01   #24
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If you refuse to acknowledge that the comparison between two pistol cartridges that have dimensionally similar cases, except for length, to two rifle cartridges that don't share much dimensionally, other than the base of the case and caliber of bullet, thanks to being necked cartridges, is asinine, then I don't feel I should even continue the discussion.

(Not to mention the smaller .308 cartridge operates at a higher max pressure than the 30-06, whereas just the opposite is true for .40/10mm.)

Once again, I'm not saying that you should go out and burn all your .40 through your 10mm, but if you needed to for some reason, that in my own experience with my gun, it has worked fine.

With the good weather we are supposed to have over the next couple days, I'm tempted to run a couple more boxes of .40 through just to say I did.

I suppose when you get back to me one how many manufacturers recommend shooting reloads through their guns, I'll return to this discussion from my loading bench. I won't be holding my breath
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Old 03-30-2010, 20:19   #25
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3rd gen Smiths are great pistols.
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