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Old 05-13-2015, 17:26   #1
bdcochran
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Vitamins and minerals

Probably not the usual topic. I stress that most doctors will indicate that most people don't need to take vitamins.

My reason for posting is to give information that may be of assistance to members of the forum.

Years ago, I had a build up of salts in the kidneys. Painful. The doctor provided the treatment and gave the following recommendations.
1. do not use table salt - sodium chloride. A person receives enough in processed foods eaten at home and food served outside the home. So, with the exception of when bread is baked, potassium chloride has been used for 30 years. It is called "no salt".
2. understand that magnesium and potassium cannot be stored in the body. Rather than taking salt tablets, take the mineral tablets if working outdoors. Moreover, take a couple of each if you tend to have leg cramps at night in bed.

Recently, I went to my doctor. Pushing 70 years old. Was told that I have a vitamin D deficiency and take vitamin D every day - an older person's problem. I spoke to another Dr. who believed that people tended to get colds and flues more readily in the late fall and winter because of a lack of vitamin D.

If you view potential survival situations lasting more than a couple of weeks, you might store a few containers of vitamins and minerals (purchased on sale, of course) in a cool place.

3. A few years ago, I had internal surgery followed by antibiotics. Nothing exotic by way of surgery. However, I still hurt. My GP recommended taking pro-biotics to restore internal flora. Certainly, I had never heard of it. However, it worked, so I have a small supply for the occasional stomach problem and shtf.

Of course, I provide the disclaimer that the foregoing works/worked for me. It might not for you. And, of course, don't rely upon anyone's advice, without consulting your own physician.
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Old 05-15-2015, 15:43   #2
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Great post BD. I'd like to toss in my two cents for consideration if I may.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
Probably not the usual topic. I stress that most doctors will indicate that most people don't need to take vitamins.
No disrespect meant towards practitioners of western medicine intended, but nutrition is not an area they normally are trained in beyond a very peripheral exposure. Don't quote me on the exact number of hours as it may differ from med school to med school, but in one seminar given by a physician, he noted that he'd only received about 16 hours on nutrition out of the 8 years of schooling. The area western medicine shines in is emergency surgery, heart attacks etc. Preventative medicine, well, not so much. Having lived in other countries and seen various ways to practice medicine, there is a LOT to be said for prevention in which nutrition is a key factor.

Quote:
understand that magnesium and potassium cannot be stored in the body. Rather than taking salt tablets, take the mineral tablets if working outdoors. Moreover, take a couple of each if you tend to have leg cramps at night in bed.
If you're reading this post, chances are that you're deficient in magnesium and potassium. 90%+ of Americans are deficient. Products like Calm or Ionic Fizz are great supplements. I used to get bad leg cramps...and I mean BAD! Started taking Ionic Fizz daily in my drinks and no more cramps.




There are other supplements, these are just two that I use that work. Great for the electrolyte replacement as well.

Quote:
Recently, I went to my doctor. Pushing 70 years old. Was told that I have a vitamin D deficiency and take vitamin D every day - an older person's problem. I spoke to another Dr. who believed that people tended to get colds and flues more readily in the late fall and winter because of a lack of vitamin D.
As with magnesium, most people are vitamin D deficient. Even those that routinely work outdoors can be deficient. They're no longer considering 10 minutes a day as sufficient.

Quote:
A few years ago, I had internal surgery followed by antibiotics. Nothing exotic by way of surgery. However, I still hurt. My GP recommended taking pro-biotics to restore internal flora. Certainly, I had never heard of it. However, it worked, so I have a small supply for the occasional stomach problem and shtf.
Probiotics are an essential item that most people don't even know about. They replace the bacterial flora in the intestines which is where the majority of your immune system originates. I would suggest an encapsulated version that doesn't dissolve until past the stomach. I use this one:




The reason I like this brand is that you don't have to refrigerate them.

I would also suggest CoQ10 (Ubiquinol as it dissolves better) taken with L-Carnitine. I take this for heart health and would suggest research into it for those interested. I'll try to post more later. Good topic.
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Old 05-15-2015, 17:45   #3
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Kudos for taking supplements the intelligent way.

As prescribed by a DOCTOR.

I would not go to a grocery store for medical advice for the same reason I would not ask a doctors opinion about the price of bananas. HOW WOULD THEY KNOW !
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Old 05-15-2015, 18:56   #4
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You don't need a doctor to prescribe supplements. Nor would they be the best choice, in general, to ask about supplements as they, in general, don't have the education required in this area. There are exceptions however of doctors that have researched into the area, which is a very good thing. Additionally, there are educated individuals in the areas of homeopathy, Chinese medicine, nutritionalists etc that do have the education required.

One needs to also research and educate themselves through legitimate sources. Seminars are available from a variety of respected sources including doctors that have done the required research. In this way they can become more self reliant and knowledgeable in an area that is essential to a sound prep plan.
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Old 05-15-2015, 21:26   #5
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This is what we take, what do you think? My wife said she can tell the difference,
I can tell a difference too.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natur...gizer-180-tabs

Supplement Facts
Serving Size 3 Tablets
Servings Per Container 60
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 15
Total Carbohydrate 3 g 1%†
Dietary Fiber <1 g 3%
Protein <1 g 1.5%
Vitamin A (33% [5,000 IU] as retinyl
acetate and 67% [10,000 IU] as beta carotene)
15,000 IU 300%
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) 1,000 mg 1,667%
Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) 1,000 IU 250%
Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl succinate) 200 IU 667%
Vitamin K (as phytonadione) 80 mcg 100%
Thiamin (as thiamin mononitrate) 25 mg 1,667%
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 25 mg 1,471%
Niacin (as niacinamide) 125 mg 625%
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCl/
pyridoxal 5-phosphate)
50 mg 2,500%
Folic Acid 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) 200 mcg 3,333%
Biotin 325 mcg 108%
Pantothenic Acid (as d-calcium
pantothenate)
125 mg 1,250%
Calcium (as citrate/carbonate) 250 mg 25%
Iodine (from pacific kelp powder,
as potassium iodide)
150 mcg 100%
Magnesium (as citrate/oxide) 125 mg 31%
Zinc (as zinc gluconate) 15 mg 100%
Selenium (as L-selenomethionine) 200 mcg 286%
Copper (as amino acid chelate) 2 mg 100%
Manganese (as amino acid chelate) 5 mg 250%
Chromium (as chromium picolinate) 250 mcg 208%
Molybdenum 75 mcg 100%
Sodium 15 mg 1%
Potassium (as amino acid chelate) 50 mg 1%
Green Food/Spirulina Blend
Spirulina (microalgae); Alfalfa (leaf, stem); Barley Grass (grass); Dandelion (leaf); Wheat Grass (grass); Melissa (leaf); Lemon Grass (grass); Nettle (leaf); Blessed Thistle (stem, leaf, flower); Chlorella (broken-cell microalgae); Plantain (leaf); Blue Green Algae (microalgae); Cilantro (leaf); Kelp (whole thallus); providing amino acids: Glutamic acid, Aspartic acid, Arginine, Leucine, Lysine, Serine, Phenylalanine, Valine, Isoleucine, Alanine, Proline, Glycine, Threonine, Tyrosine, Histidine, Methionine, Cysteine, Tryptophan
400 mg **
Cardiovascular Blend with Resveratrol
Hawthorn (berry); Japanese Knotweed standardized to 50% resveratrol; Coenzyme Q10 (ubiquinone)
100 mg **
Orchard Fruits™ Blend
Pomegranate (seed); Açaí Extract (whole palm fruit); Juice Powders: Grape; Plum; Cranberry; Blueberry; Strawberry; Blackberry; Bilberry; Cherry; Apricot; Papaya; Orange; Pineapple
100 mg **
Garden Veggies™ Juice Powder Blend
Parsley; Kale; Spinach; Wheat Grass; Brussels Sprout; Asparagus; Broccoli; Cauliflower; Beet; Carrot; Cabbage; Garlic
100 mg **
Organic Mushroom Defense Blend
Cordyceps; Reishi; Shiitake; Hiratake; Maitake; Yamabu****ake; Himematsutake; Kawaratake; Chaga; Zhu Ling; Agarikon; Mesima
100 mg **
Digestive Enzyme Blend: Concentrated
enzyme formula (Protease I, Protease II, Peptizyme SP, Amylase, Lactase, Invertase, Lipase, Cellulase, Alpha Galactosidase); Betaine HCl; Bromelain (from pineapple); Papain (from papaya)
100 mg **
Omega 3/6/9 Fatty Acid Seed Blend
Flax Seed Powder (dry, cold pressed); Sunflower Seed Powder (dry, cold pressed)
100 mg **
Citrus Bioflavonoid Complex (from lemon,
orange, grapefruit, lime, tangerine) providing: Hesperidin, Naringin, Narirutin, Eriocitrin, Flavonols and Flavones
60 mg **
Siberian Eleuthero (root) 50 mg **
Inositol 50 mg **
Choline (as choline bitartrate) 30 mg **
Rutin 25 mg **
Boron (as amino acid chelate) 1 mg **
Lutein (from marigold) 500 mcg **
†Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.

**Daily Value (DV) not established.

Other ingredients: Vegetable cellulose, Vegetable stearic acid, Vegetable modified cellulose gum, Silica, Vegetable modified cellulose, Vegetable magnesium stearate, Vegetable glycerin.

Recommended: Take 3 tablets daily, preferably with food. As with any supplement, if you are pregnant, nursing or taking medication, consult your doctor before use. Not formulated for children. Do not exceed recommended use.

Safety sealed for your protection with printed outer shrinkwrap and printed inner freshness seal under bottle cap. Do not use if either seal is broken or missing. Store at room temperature. Keep bottle tightly closed. Keep out of reach of children.

Made in USA

Contains no sugar, yeast, wheat grain, dairy products, artificial flavors, colors or preservatives.
NO ADDED IRON
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Old 05-16-2015, 07:02   #6
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HH, that looks pretty good to me. From what I see, it is a whole food supplement and not a synthetic, which is a very good thing.

I like the ingredients for the cardio portion:

Quote:
Cardiovascular Blend with Resveratrol
Hawthorn (berry); Japanese Knotweed standardized to 50% resveratrol; Coenzyme Q10 (ubiquinone)
In addition to the CoQ10 (ubiquinone) which I take in a larger dosage I also take the Hawthorn and Resveratrol. Both are excellent for the heart. Hawthorn promotes a steady rhythm.

I also like the digestive enzymes that it has, though again, I take a larger dosage personally. But I like seeing a product with those ingredients. Very important.

As a side note, and I've mentioned this before in other posts, we make our own colloidal silver. Been doing so for nearly 20 years. There are some sites out there that poo-poo colloidal silver but imo if you 'follow the money' you'll see an agenda for doing so. I don't advocate for drinking it daily, though some do. Generally we use it as a topical for cuts and burns in addition to if we feel an illness coming on. The research I've done is that it destroys harmful bacteria while not harming good bacteria. Thus you don't get the runs like you could with normal antibiotics. It is something that has been used for thousands of years successfully and is a staple medicinal product in many other countries where perhaps certain multi-billion dollar pharm companies don't operate/control that have a vested interest in people not using it. At any rate, been making and using it successfully for nearly two decades. A generator is a $100 investment give-or-take and you can make up a batch for pennies rather than buying it (it is rather expensive if you buy it).

This isn't the one I use, but offers an example:




I recommend research if you're interested. By the way, still using my original pair of silver rods from nearly 20 years ago. It is a sound investment imo.

Basically, if we feel a cold or whatever coming on, we don't run to the doctor. We use supplements, essential oils (topical, ingested and diffused), probiotics as well as silver to take care of the illness. This goes towards our goal of self reliance in this area.

I don't want to give the impression I'm against doctors and want to stress this point. Doctors are great if used within their field of experience. I've had two issues with my heart. One issue was fixed through supplements. The other issue was such that supplements were not the solution and conventional medicine was (not the drug portion as that is like putting a filter on a tail pipe that is spewing smoke. It stops the smoke but didn't fix the problem), but rather the surgery portion was needed. So everything has it's place and purpose.

In this section we all strive to prepare for the 'what if' scenarios. That is prudent. Thus 'what if' you need to rely on someone other than a doctor that may not be available? There is a LOT that the self reliant prepper can do for him/herself in this area with due diligent research. Look at it this way, a knowledge and proficiency with a firearm is necessary in a self defense situation. Most of us have that covered. Being able to eat and drink clean water is right at the top of the prepper ladder and most of us have that covered as well. So to me, this is the next logical area to gain knowledge and experience in. Supplements, diet, essential oils, DIY remedies that work, basic and advanced first aid, CPR, AED, tintcures, salves, ointments etc are sound areas for the serious prepper to get into imo.

The more you know the better off you'll be if/when it's needed.
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Old 05-16-2015, 07:10   #7
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Double tap.
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Old 05-16-2015, 07:29   #8
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If you eat right and exercise you probably don't need any supplements. Some how people have managed to stay alive and live to ripe old ages without them.
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Old 05-16-2015, 07:34   #9
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Ddave, I have a friend that makes his Colloidal silver with a 12 volt car charger
and some hammered thin pieces of silver from one oz. rounds, really fast and cheap.

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Old 05-16-2015, 07:37   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac66 View Post
If you eat right and exercise you probably don't need any supplements. Some how people have managed to stay alive and live to ripe old ages without them.
Yes, but who eats right always and exercises always and in a
long term bad situation we need all the help we can get.

By the way, I like your Rug RHs, have three of them, one is a 7.5''
357.

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Old 05-16-2015, 07:51   #11
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Double tap.
Good thread!

Worthy of a double tap



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Yes, but who eats right always and exercises always and in a
long term bad situation we need all the help we can get.

...................
This
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Old 05-16-2015, 08:15   #12
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Stress will affect yer levels,we use Nature Made brand.'08.
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Old 05-16-2015, 08:29   #13
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Getting advice on supplements from doctors is much like getting advice about guns from cops. You may get very good information or you may get ridiculous information. But the odds are against getting objective, rational, informed, unbiased opinion.

It's up to us individually as intelligent, informed self-sustainers to learn and decide for ourselves. Personally, I believe there is some substantial truth in reports presented by the NIH, the NBCI (national center for biotechnical information), Scientific American, and many others that modern crops have much-reduced mineral content - both regular and trace minerals - than those of a generation or two ago. We do add a lot minerals back into the soil in the form of fertilizers, but it's almost always only three elements - nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium. Those are good and necessary, but they're hardly all-encompassing compared to what is taken out of the soil.

Many foods nowadays are actually UP in some minerals. Those with increases appear (in my limited reading) to be almost always phosphorous, and much less often iron.

Other minerals - potassium, magnesium, calcium, copper, and others, almost always are substantially less prevalent than in earlier samples. Similar trends with vitamins; in more than one report I've read, an orange has roughly 10-20% (depending on whose numbers are correct) of the vitamin A that an orange did in the 1940's or so.

Again, don't accept my word at face value anymore than anyone else's. Look objectively and make informed personal choices; whether about nutritional supplements, guns, water filters, or vehicles.

Fwiw, from the NCBI:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19013359

Quote:
...The concentrations of zinc, iron, copper and magnesium remained stable between 1845 and the mid 1960s, but since then have decreased significantly, which coincided with the introduction of semi-dwarf, high-yielding cultivars. In comparison, the concentrations in soil have either increased or remained stable. Similarly decreasing trends were observed in different treatments receiving no fertilizers, inorganic fertilizers or organic manure. Multiple regression analysis showed that both increasing yield and harvest index were highly significant factors that explained the downward trend in grain mineral concentration...
From Scientific American:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...utrition-loss/

Quote:
...data from 1975 to 1997 found that average calcium levels in 12 fresh vegetables dropped 27 percent; iron levels 37 percent; vitamin A levels 21 percent, and vitamin C levels 30 percent. A similar study of British nutrient data from 1930 to 1980, published in the British Food Journal,found that in 20 vegetables the average calcium content had declined 19 percent; iron 22 percent; and potassium 14 percent...
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Old 05-16-2015, 09:06   #14
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Getting advice on supplements from doctors is much like getting advice about guns from cops. You may get very good information or you may get ridiculous information. But the odds are against getting objective, rational, informed, unbiased opinion.
Don't disagree with this really, except for the last part. It's just a matter of the credibility of the source of information.

On one hand there are credible doctors, researchers and scientists who have dedicated their lives to the safety of the public food supply, the efficacy of medications, and the scientific investigation of issues. On the other side there are people that profit from selling miracle cures.

The human body and its health is certainly not a math equation to be figured out, and the placebo effect is well documented. I just tend to disbelieve anything until the burden of proof is established. That's just me.
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Old 05-16-2015, 09:21   #15
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Stress will affect yer levels,we use Nature Made brand.'08.
Do you mean Nature Made or Nature's Way?

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natur...gizer-180-tabs
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Old 05-16-2015, 10:05   #16
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I just tend to disbelieve anything until the burden of proof is established. That's just me.
What burden of proof are you looking for? Time to flip the critical thinking skills switch to evaluate this topic. Are we going to find the burden of proof for supplements, herbal remedies, colloidal silver, homeopathy etc in the schools of conventional western medicine (that are often funded by the big pharmaceutical companies? Probably not. Are we going to find it in schools of medicine outside this country where they've been used for hundreds if not thousands of years? Probably a reasonable place to start.

We're not talking about witch doctors and eye-of-newt potions. We're talking medicinal use of plants, the validity of which has been well established, even in this country. We're talking the correct use of supplements to give the body what it needs to function well and heal itself from illness or injury.

You'll find people, including doctors that scoff at things like acupuncture. Yet it has a well established track record. And I'll toss in my personal experiences with it. Or they'll scoff at reflexology or tri-release or cranial-sacral therapy. But again, millions of people will attest to it's benefits. And again, in this area I'll toss in my personal experiences with it.

So what I'm basically saying is that while there are snake oil salesman (even in modern medicine), there is quite a track record for a plethora of treatments/preventions that anyone with the willingness to learn can do for themselves. And fortunately there are many legitimate, qualified sources to learn from if one is interested. And just as fortunately, often times the education costs only your time.
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Old 05-16-2015, 10:06   #17
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Nature Made,I've got 1 of their multis bottles in my hand rt now.I've used their products for yrs.My local grocer/Ingles runs bogos on them 6xs a yr.90 tab bottles at $8.48,or 2 90 tab bottles for the same money.

Food/nutrient sups will be needed for preps.We store/grow echinacea/garlic/milk thistle.We have tabs in all 3,fresh is better.

Doing the math,2 bogo sales will store 360 adult/male multis,do the same with kid/women/pre-natal and you can have quite a store.I prefer blister packed items,bulkier/by far to store.Downside,bulk/upside,less o2 exposure.'08.
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Old 05-16-2015, 10:08   #18
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Easy Dave,Witch Doctors scare me.'08.
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Old 05-16-2015, 10:45   #19
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What burden of proof are you looking for? Time to flip the critical thinking skills switch to evaluate this topic. Are we going to find the burden of proof for supplements, herbal remedies, colloidal silver, homeopathy etc in the schools of conventional western medicine (that are often funded by the big pharmaceutical companies? Probably not.
I hear you, but your last sentence sounds like every other scam - it's a conspiracy from the "establishment". There are miracle discoveries out there waiting to be found to be sure, but the problem is separating the wheat from the chaff. Who would you want tasked with this? Salesman or scientists ?

Homeopathy is placebo - plain and simple (which has a rate of effectiveness no doubt). Through a law passed by a politician in the late 30's that has not yet been corrected, they are able to be sold as medicine. I see this as a mistake that has yet to be corrected due to other more pressing responsibilities.

The FDA recently released their finding on supplements, though I cannot find a link. Not surprisingly they found them to be ineffective except in very specific cases.

To me proof is a credible peer reviewed study that has been conducted correctly to eliminate all sources of doubt. Not an easy task to be sure for engineering analysis, much less human physiology.

In the end people believe what they want, and if you believe in something, that is the trigger for placebos to work.
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Old 05-16-2015, 11:41   #20
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I hear you, but your last sentence sounds like every other scam - it's a conspiracy from the "establishment".
Well...isn't it? American 'modern' medicine is run by who? Ask any doctor you know how often they're visited by the pharmacy reps and given free samples to hand out. For that matter, look at any commercial these days that encourages you to 'talk to your doctor' about their wonder drug (but you'll have to ignore the end of the commercial where they list the side effects that are worse that the initial symptoms you were experiencing. My personal favorite is the anti-depressant that causes suicidal thoughts and behavior). The whole western medicine system derives around drugs, that don't cure the disease and only mask the symptoms. That's why you have to follow the money and use critical thinking to see what the agenda behind the statements are.

Quote:
The FDA recently released their finding on supplements, though I cannot find a link. Not surprisingly they found them to be ineffective except in very specific cases.
I wouldn't doubt that at all. Oh, not that supplements are ineffective, but that the FDA found they weren't effective. Because if supplements were effective you wouldn't need all those drugs they approve...and then yank off the market a few years later because people are dying. But that's okay, because by that time the companies have raked in billions of dollars so they can afford a few hundred million dollars in the 'hush-fund'. It's a bottom line industry: we're going to be sued by the spouses of the people our drugs have killed to the tune of 100 million dollars, but since we're making a billion dollars beforehand we're still ahead of the game. Simply put, the FDA has done some fine things. And they've also done some very shady things and you may want to do a bit of research on some of the folks that have run that agency. You may find some ties that you weren't aware of.

Quote:
To me proof is a credible peer reviewed study that has been conducted correctly to eliminate all sources of doubt.
Sounds great to me, but let's make sure they weren't funded by someone with an agenda one way or the other.

I look at results. I suffered leg cramps. Doctors (that actually study and research nutrition) have determined that most people are deficient in magnesium in western societies. Magnesium keeps your muscles from cramping along with a host of other benefits. I take magnesium supplements. I don't have leg cramps anymore. Would you suggest that's a placebo? If so, I'll take the placebo over the cramps cause they sucked!

In the past I'd get the flu once a year. Now when I feel those symptoms coming on I up my supplements and take colloidal silver and essential oils and I don't get sick. Would you suggest that is the placebo effect? If so, I'll take the effect over the 103 fever I usually got before I got into all this stuff.

As I've said, other cultures/countries have used essential oils, colloidal silver, tinctures, salves and supplements for longer than this country has existed with great success. Perhaps that's all coincidence or placebo but I've lived over seas and have experienced a great deal that works in the real world. I'll take that over and agency, publication or study that has an agenda. That's just me, YMMV.
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Last edited by Deputydave; 05-16-2015 at 11:49..
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