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Old 09-26-2010, 14:40   #1061
fnfalguy
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I watched a documentary last night regarding government social programs and entitlements compared to Free Market Principals. Much of the discussion was characterized as the following:

Makers vs. Takers

...kinda sums everything up pretty neatly!
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Old 09-26-2010, 14:57   #1062
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Originally Posted by fnfalguy View Post
I watched a documentary last night regarding government social programs and entitlements compared to Free Market Principals. Much of the discussion was characterized as the following:

Makers vs. Takers

...kinda sums everything up pretty neatly!
You also have the brick layers versus the brick throwers. (Got that from Andrew Wilkow)
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 09-26-2010, 19:54   #1063
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Then I guess the losing candidate has every right to assume the office they ran for , eh? After all, we shouldn't be listening to the will of the majority in your opinion. Of course its a balancing act, with the will of the majority and the rights of the individual, but you don't get to thumb your nose at laws as a lone holdout, and the majority shouldn't be held hostage by a loon or two who thinks the UFOs are on their way. Its a balancing act.
Balancing act my ass. We have a founding document that very clearly delineates exactly how this is supposed to work. It is not subject to the will of the majority, short of the amendment process. In fact, it is a decidedly ANTI-DEMOCRATIC document designed for the express purpose of protecting the rights of the INDIVIDUAL from the will of the majority.

Furthermore, we have an entire branch of the government that is decidely ANTI-DEMOCRATIC and designed to protect the individual from the will of the majority. And, 1/2 of the legislative branch was originally designed to be ANTI-DEMOCRATIC and sheltered from the will of the majority (until you Progressives changed it).

Under your logic and worldview, if the majority wants to nationalize the oil industry -- and votes for representatives who agree -- then it should be done. Constitution be damned.

Similarly, if the majority wanted slavery to remain legal -- and voted for representatives who agree -- then it should have been done.

I go back to my original assertions in this thread. Your thought process is simplistic, shallow and woefully ill-informed to hold these views.

You have asserted that you are a "conservative" and a member of the "Conservative Party" yet you refuse to cite any examples of conservative views you hold when asked repeatedly. Meanwhile, you spout off talking points for the Socialist and Communist party platforms for the last 100 years.

You claim that just because you don't conform to someone else's definition of conservative, that it doesn't make you a commie lib. Sorry komrade, it doesn't work that way. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.......

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I've read the Constitution numerous time.
Impossible. Either that or you hold it in disdain. The latter being particularly concerning since you took an oath to uphold and protect it.
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Old 09-26-2010, 19:57   #1064
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Don't worry about my definition. Just name your own conservative values that you think are conservative.

My own opinion is that the Federal government needs to be limited to its 18 enumerated powers, no more and no less. The rest goes to the States and the people, as per the 9th and 10th Amendments. The Constitution needs to be strictly interpreted. Changes need to go through the Amendment process, not judicial activism. Courts do not interpret the Constitution. Courts use the Constitution as the framework and guideline to interpret novel laws and situations.

The rest is simple if you just follow what our Founding Fathers laid out. It's not that complicated.
But, but, but.......what about the will of the majority?
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Old 09-26-2010, 22:08   #1065
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The tyranny of the majority is something that is anathema to our founding. That is what did in ancient Greece. Their totally democratic way of life destroyed them as the voting bloc kept voting themselves government largess to the point that it became unsustainable. Sound familiar?
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 09-26-2010, 22:09   #1066
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Its a matter of definitions. My definitions may not agree with yours. You wanting a government thats 90% smaller than what we have isn't just "conservative", it borders on being a fringe opinion. I agree with the belief that there are areas where the gov't should be smaller, and i disagree with those who want the gov't to grow more than it has.

The problem is that many Conservatives have the mindset that if you don't agree EXACTLY with them, you aren't a "real" conservative.
You are STILL skirting the issue!! Stop with the "well my definition might vary slightly from yours" stuff...just put some GENERAL ideas out there that would clearly be conservative in nature politically speaking.

-Emt1581
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Old 09-26-2010, 22:38   #1067
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His only response so far is that he think some areas of government should be limited more but the other stuff needs to be kept because the modern government is so complex that we need the behemoth to survive.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:28   #1068
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The tyranny of the majority is something that is anathema to our founding. That is what did in ancient Greece. Their totally democratic way of life destroyed them as the voting bloc kept voting themselves government largess to the point that it became unsustainable. Sound familiar?
In his ignorance, he doesn't realize that what made this country unique was not self-governance. That was not a new concept or system.

What made this country unique were the rights of the individual.

Not some "balancing act". What an idiot.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:34   #1069
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Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
My own opinion is that the Federal government needs to be limited to its 18 enumerated powers, no more and no less. The rest goes to the States and the people, as per the 9th and 10th Amendments. The Constitution needs to be strictly interpreted. Changes need to go through the Amendment process, not judicial activism. Courts do not interpret the Constitution. Courts use the Constitution as the framework and guideline to interpret novel laws and situations.

The rest is simple if you just follow what our Founding Fathers laid out. It's not that complicated.
Both sides accuse the courts of being " activist" when the courts rule in ways that side doesn't like, so I don't even listen to the howls of judicial activism anymore because the complaint is purely political in nature.

Most of our governments existing activities and functions can already be justified under the existing Constitution.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:36   #1070
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In his ignorance, he doesn't realize that what made this country unique was not self-governance. That was not a new concept or system.

What made this country unique were the rights of the individual.

Not some "balancing act". What an idiot.
You are welcome to your opinion, but if you think that in EVERY case the majority should have to yield to a single malcontent, then its not me who is the idiot.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:11   #1071
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You are welcome to your opinion, but if you think that in EVERY case the majority should have to yield to a single malcontent, then its not me who is the idiot.
I am welcome to my opinion until the majority decides, through their elected representatives, that I am not entitled to my opinion. Right?

So, in your view, defense of individual liberty and Constitutional text and principles makes one a malcontent?

If the majority decides that you no longer need your guns, who should yield?

If the majority decides that 100% of your paycheck be surrendered to the government, who should yield?

If the majority decides that your land should be surrendered to the government, who should yield?

If the majority decides that your child should attend a government educational program, who should yield?



In "EVERY CASE" the majority must yield to the rights of the individual. YES! That is precisely what this country was founded upon.

You have unwittingly exposed yourself as a Marxist yet again.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:18   #1072
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= reality. Watch your blood pressure.'08.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:20   #1073
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Both sides accuse the courts of being " activist" when the courts rule in ways that side doesn't like, so I don't even listen to the howls of judicial activism anymore because the complaint is purely political in nature.
WOW!

One side rules on what the contract actually says.

The other side rules on what the contract SHOULD say.

And both are activism?

Quote:
Most of our governments existing activities and functions can already be justified under the existing Constitution.
Really?

Perhaps you can tell me where I can find the following:

1. Constitutional authority to regulate education.
2. Constitutional authority to regulate my toilet.
3. Constitutional authority to regulate my food.
4. Constitutional authority to regulate my healthcare.
5. Constitutional authority to discriminate based on income.
6. Constitutional authority to own land in the States (national parks).
7. Constitutional authority to regulate guns.
8. Constitutional authority to regulate alcohol, tobacco, marijuana.
9. Constitutional authority to regulate light bulbs.
10. Constitutional authority to provide medicare.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:22   #1074
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= reality. Watch your blood pressure.'08.
It just amazes me to see how these people think.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:27   #1075
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CF,remember,it's the net.'08. PM for further.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:31   #1076
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It just amazes me to see how these people think.

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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
You have unwittingly exposed yourself as a Marxist yet again.
You got that right, keep after him CF!

~HF~
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:03   #1077
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
Both sides accuse the courts of being " activist" when the courts rule in ways that side doesn't like, so I don't even listen to the howls of judicial activism anymore because the complaint is purely political in nature.

Most of our governments existing activities and functions can already be justified under the existing Constitution.
Okay, so where is your opinion or conservative views? Are your conservative views just basically the ones that don't jive with ours? Because that's about all the stuff you are willing to say.

Name some of your favorite government activities and how it is justified under the Constitution. Give me a few.

Just a few to get you started. You don't have to use all of them, but try to answer a few just to clarify in my head how you think:

Social Security
Medicare
BLM
IRS
USDA
USCIS (this one's a gimme)
US Postal Service (so's this)
Universal Healthcare
Department of Education
Department of Energy
Department of Transportation
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:07   #1078
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I'd also be interested in hearing him explain the purpose of the Constitution to all of us.
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Old 09-27-2010, 13:47   #1079
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I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

If you look like food,You will be eaten.

Rip Chad.You will be missed.
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Old 09-27-2010, 19:46   #1080
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Listening to one of the few decent Congresscritters today. He mentioned that if the November elections go the way everyone is anticipating there is a high likelihood that Congress will NOT vote to raise the debt ceiling once again.

This could create some interesting times on the near horizon.
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