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Old 08-01-2011, 09:04   #1326
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
I have, I simply refuse to toe your belief that we can somehow go back to an 1800 level of Federal gov't.
90% are not needed? That statement simply shows how out of touch you are.
So is the COTUS the supreme law of the land?
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:06   #1327
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So is the COTUS the supreme law of the land?
Do you truly believe that 90% of the federal gov't exists outside the CONUS?
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:09   #1328
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
Do you truly believe that 90% of the federal gov't exists outside the CONUS?
Answer my question.

(it's a dart on the wall but I bet it's pretty close, yeah)
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:12   #1329
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
Do you truly believe that 90% of the federal gov't exists outside the CONUS?
The COTUS gives the fed very limited and specific authority and responsibility and specifically states that everything else is reserved for the states and the people. Everything outside of that goes.

If you would read it you would know this
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:14   #1330
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
The COTUS gives the fed very limited and specific authority and responsibility and specifically states that everything else is reserved for the states and the people. Everything outside of that goes.

If you would read it you would know this
I've read it. I guess you do believe that 90% of it was just mysteriously created with no legal authority.
We'll just have to disagree. Your theory would see the nation undermined to the point of destroying us.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:21   #1331
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
I've read it. I guess you do believe that 90% of it was just mysteriously created with no legal authority.
We'll just have to disagree. Your theory would see the nation undermined to the point of destroying us.
Why won't you answer my question?

This response is pretty clear indication that you don't know what you're talking about OR you hold anti-constitutionalist views.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:25   #1332
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
...what jobs do we give all of these 'able bodied" people?
As you say, the govt can't "give" a job, at least not a job that will sustain itself long-term without outside infusions. (And some of those jobs are undeniably valid & necessary - military, public safety, courts, etc.)

What govt CAN do is frankly just get out of the way. I know that's a cliche' nowadays, but it's a fact that any business owner will attest to. Every employee I hire, lay off or fire, causes more paperwork, expense, and hassle for me or someone who works for me. Say what we will but if I can reduce paperwork, expense and administrative hassle, I can increase the things that make a company actually work. Sales, customer service, training, whatever.

Hard to give an exact, legitimate per-employee cost, but looking at just macro-level numbers shows the trend of the increased cost of govt involvement in private business. This is an older chart; inflation-adjusted for constant 2004 dollars. (And trust me, the trend has done nothing but accelerate since then). The private sector has shrunk from 74% to just 42% of the total economy, while at the same time regulatory cost has grown from 4% to 15% of the total economy:
Survival/Preparedness Forum

This is a telling graph imo, and not only in demonstrating the trend of increasing govt expansion as a percent of the overall economy. It's also a good visual showing how the cost of govt regulation borne by private business grew from 4% to 15% of the total economy over that same time frame. (In the interest of full disclosure, depending on whose numbers you look at, it runs from 12% to 16%; the only chart I have shows it at 15%.)And again, that trend has done nothing but continue to accelerate since then.
Survival/Preparedness Forum

And what is hugely important is that the total private sector portion of the economy is only 42% of the total economy; and that 15% is in terms of the TOTAL economy. It's actually around a third of the private sector's 42% portion of the economy. IE, private sector represents 42/100ths of the economy, but then has to pay 15/100ths (or 15/42nd's of its world) out of its pocket to pay for govt regulations.

So not only am I annoyed, and completely understand why others are as well; but I see no way to avoid the conclusion that if we stay on this same course much longer, the handouts will have to stop. There will be just too little free market to pay for them.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:30   #1333
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Why won't you answer my question?

This response is pretty clear indication that you don't know what you're talking about OR you hold anti-constitutionalist views.
My answer WAS your answer. Expecting the Federal gov't to sink to a tenth of its size is not feasible or wise, and I can only consider that anyone who seriously believes that is looking to destroy the nation indirectly, because they ought to know that a Federal gov't reduced to a tenth of its size cannot adequately handle 21st century issues or threats.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:32   #1334
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Do you truly believe that 90% of the federal gov't exists outside the CONUS?
CONUS? No... most of the federal leviathan is within the CONUS. Not too much federal stuff (by ratio) is in Hawaii or Puerto Rico.

Now, COTUS? Yes, most of the federal leviathan are outside of the COTUS without any charter from it. Cabinet, Article I courts, the various executive administrations and bureaucracies, etc., are all created because it was interpreted that those entities were "needed" to carry out the functions that were specifically authorized by the COTUS.

I'll name a few things authorized by COTUS: Army, Navy, 1 Supreme Court, lowers courts as authorized by Congress, Congress (2 houses), President, Vice President, and that takes care of most of it.

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I've read it. I guess you do believe that 90% of it was just mysteriously created with no legal authority.
We'll just have to disagree. Your theory would see the nation undermined to the point of destroying us.
So it is your assertion that staying true to the Constitution of the United States is undermining the nation and will cause its destruction? Wow... so following the supreme law of the land then is treason?

Here's a thought, it's not that we need the big behemoth, but rather that we have allowed it to become so pervasive that we are used to having its presence in our lives and can't imagine not having it. However, that is not the same as needing it to survive.

The Constitution was envisioned to provide the minimum cohesion needed to protect the union and anything beyond that, is up to the states and the individual citizens. That is MAXIMUM liberty and freedom, as envisioned by the Founding Fathers.

States and local government, who are more accountable to the people they represent, and affect, are the ones who have all the powers not expressly granted to the Feds, and their limits are found within the Bill of Rights and other Amendments that protect liberty.

Re-read your copy of the Constitution, and the history of how the various bureaucracies popped up and the legal justifications used. It's just something people accepted into their lives, but there is no reason it has to keep going either.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:32   #1335
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
I have, I simply refuse to toe your belief that we can somehow go back to an 1800 level of Federal gov't.
90% are not needed? That statement simply shows how out of touch you are.
Or how dependent 50% of Americans are for their check.The COTUS is the law, any fed agency not defined in it is illegal.'08.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:33   #1336
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
My answer WAS your answer. Expecting the Federal gov't to sink to a tenth of its size is not feasible or wise, and I can only consider that anyone who seriously believes that is looking to destroy the nation indirectly, because they ought to know that a Federal gov't reduced to a tenth of its size cannot adequately handle 21st century issues or threats.
My question IS: DO YOU BELIEVE THE COTUS IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.

You still haven't answered it. It's a yes/no answer.
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Old 08-01-2011, 09:34   #1337
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Who's on which half?

I'm thinking if the entitlement class had a war against them it'd be anything but civil. And if the rest of us paying for all their handouts were fed up enough we'd stop electing officials who continue the process.

Again, keeping the ghetto dwellers happy seems to be an acceptable "tax" for most compared to arming themselves and shutting down ANY attempt at a violent backlash and they'd put people in office who would stop doling out free-everything for these scumbags.

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Old 08-01-2011, 09:39   #1338
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My question IS: DO YOU BELIEVE THE COTUS IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.

You still haven't answered it. It's a yes/no answer.
Yes. (See how easy that is for some of us...) Even if it was 'no' instead of 'yes', it's still an easy question to answer if one is willing to be up front about their beliefs. Seems disingenuous to want to debate while being unwilling to take a position on the basic premise.

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Old 08-01-2011, 10:39   #1339
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What job are you going to give the able bodied, and what job would you give to the millions of gov't employees you just fired? I realize that you're going to say "we aren't going to GIVE them a job", but you state you're going to put them to work, but doing WHAT?
I'll take 2 right now. Now experience or knowledge needed to wash cars and yet I can't find anyone to do it. They are all collecting 99 weeks of unemployment and will come see me when it runs out. I will take one more, a lube tech, we'll train.

FYI - the last good worker I had washing cars was doing work release from the jail. He appreciated being out of jail during the daytime and worked his butt off, can't wait until he goes back in...
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:46   #1340
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I'll take 2 right now. Now experience or knowledge needed to wash cars and yet I can't find anyone to do it. They are all collecting 99 weeks of unemployment and will come see me when it runs out. I will take one more, a lube tech, we'll train.

FYI - the last good worker I had washing cars was doing work release from the jail. He appreciated being out of jail during the daytime and worked his butt off, can't wait until he goes back in...
He doesn't even consider the economic BOOM that will take place when all that tax money is left in the private sector
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:49   #1341
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Yes. (See how easy that is for some of us...) Even if it was 'no' instead of 'yes', it's still an easy question to answer if one is willing to be up front about their beliefs. Seems disingenuous to want to debate while being unwilling to take a position on the basic premise.

Its really kinda unbelievable seeing as he took an oath to protect and defend it.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:35   #1342
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My question IS: DO YOU BELIEVE THE COTUS IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.

You still haven't answered it. It's a yes/no answer.
Yes. That was easy.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:39   #1343
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Yes. That was easy.
Just another far right wing extremist.



My followup question to tc was gonna be: "Do you believe the 2nd Amendment means what it says?"

I expect his answer to be "Yes"

Which begs the question why he would believe the REST of the COTUS doesn't mean what it says.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:40   #1344
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#1335-1336-1342,not a real hard question ta answer.'08.
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:04   #1345
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Just another far right wing extremist.



My followup question to tc was gonna be: "Do you believe the 2nd Amendment means what it says?"

I expect his answer to be "Yes"

Which begs the question why he would believe the REST of the COTUS doesn't mean what it says.
Question is, what does he think it says? His interpretation might not coincide with yours.
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Old 08-01-2011, 12:12   #1346
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Question is, what does he think it says? His interpretation might not coincide with yours.
True. Its one of those foolish 1800's type things in the Constitution that he says are absurd.
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Old 08-01-2011, 13:01   #1347
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Originally Posted by UneasyRider View Post
I'll take 2 right now. Now experience or knowledge needed to wash cars and yet I can't find anyone to do it. They are all collecting 99 weeks of unemployment and will come see me when it runs out. I will take one more, a lube tech, we'll train.

FYI - the last good worker I had washing cars was doing work release from the jail. He appreciated being out of jail during the daytime and worked his butt off, can't wait until he goes back in...
The free market folks would say that if you can't get anyone to take the job for the pay that you're offering that your offered salary is too low. So raise the salary amount and see if that brings more interest. Really, washing cars? Thats a job for high schoolers, not people trying to keep a roof over their heads. if even the high schoolers aren't nibbling, you're doing something wrong.
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Old 08-01-2011, 13:08   #1348
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The free market folks would say that if you can't get anyone to take the job for the pay that you're offering that your offered salary is too low. So raise the salary amount and see if that brings more interest. Really, washing cars? Thats a job for high schoolers, not people trying to keep a roof over their heads. if even the high schoolers aren't nibbling, you're doing something wrong.
Yeah, he's doing something wrong all right. For starters:

1. he's competeing with the fed.gov and it's free money for unempolyment (no free market there)
2. he's competing with fed.gov and it's power to tax (nope, no free market there)
3. he's competing with fed.gov and it's use of the Fed to create money from thin air (no free market there either)

Yeah, he is the guy in the wrong for having a business with 2 job openings

What does laissez faire mean in english?

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Old 08-01-2011, 13:33   #1349
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Yeah, he's doing something wrong all right. For starters:

1. he's competeing with the fed.gov and it's free money for unempolyment (no free market there)
2. he's competing with fed.gov and it's power to tax (nope, no free market there)
3. he's competing with fed.gov and it's use of the Fed to create money from thin air (no free market there either)

Yeah, he is the guy in the wrong for having a business with 2 job openings

What does laissez faire mean in english?
So your suggestion is that there should be no safety net available to laid off workers so that they are forced to take his minimum wage car washing job, am I understanding you right?
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Old 08-01-2011, 14:23   #1350
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So your suggestion is that there should be no safety net available to laid off workers so that they are forced to take his minimum wage car washing job, am I understanding you right?
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!





But then I'm not a socialist

(you still haven't answered the question: Supreme law of the land or not?
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