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Old 12-01-2010, 23:44   #1201
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Originally Posted by MannyA View Post
Why do we still give a handout to the unemployed and unmotivated. I have hired 2 girls which promptly quit when they saw that the unemployment benefits exceed what they could make with the community standard for their jobs.
One promptly took a 1 week cruise upon quiting. I am a physician and have not been able to take a vacation in 5 years!
Create job pools where the unemployed can report to work at 5AM. Let them build infrasrtructure while waiting to get off the taxpayers back. Find a better job, leave. Have kids, bring them, some other unemployed person can babysit.
Enough is enough.
You kidding me?

Look at the Section 8 housing area in any city that has them. They are the worst kept, most dilapidated sections of town. You can't require the residents to do any upkeep, test them for drugs, limit their reproduction, etc. because it is "UNFAIR" and most of the time, "RACIST" for you to even want to impose anything that even resembles responsibility.

We have tons of people who apply for part time jobs with us and never work or just call off all the time when work comes up. Then they claim unemployment, even when they know they are not eligible, because they know with the volume claims coming through the county offices, there are enough that slip through the cracks to get them approved. Even those that get denied, when they appeal, there are enough libtard judges that will award them unemployment anyway.

I know because I deal with our county liaison on occasion with this very issue.

You can't even ask the unemployed to sit at the unemployment office to fill out 5 job applications a week just to show they are looking. That is unfair and tedious. We can't ask them to sweep or clean up at the office because of worker's compensation issues if they get hurt doing it. Trust me, all the angles have been explored and shot down.
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Old 12-28-2010, 19:34   #1202
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Do we call this one?

Did tc556guy finally give up or realize his beliefs are marxist, read the Constitution he's sworn to uphold and defend, and change his ways?
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Old 12-28-2010, 20:01   #1203
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Negative. He's still active in quite a few threads. He hasn't changes his views one tiny bit. He is just not participating in this thread anymore.
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Old 12-28-2010, 20:40   #1204
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Please, just turn your computer off and walk away. Just please.


actually aceman needs to read your avatar
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Old 12-28-2010, 21:06   #1205
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Do we call this one?

Did tc556guy finally give up or realize his beliefs are marxist, read the Constitution he's sworn to uphold and defend, and change his ways?
This thread isn't about tc or anyone else here for that matter....it's about the injustice of handouts and what will happen when the ghetto-dwellers no longer get them.

-Emt1581
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Old 12-28-2010, 21:43   #1206
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Different Response

To: MannyA - Let me share a dose of reality with you.

I was in the infantry. We had a lot of 18 year olds who never were ready to work at 7 am, didn't know how to make a bed or cook a meal. Going further, a number of them didn't know how to brush their teeth (this is why we were shown films) and some had to have blanket parties before they understood that they were supposed to bathe.

I spoke recently to a senior, training nurse at UCLA. She had to instruct the students on how to wipe their asses so that they didn't infect themselves.

I know Americans who cannot read, cannot count. My girlfriend handles cargo operations at an airport. More than one handling company employee cannot count the number of pallets that are put on a plane. I knew a manager of a dye house who could count, but not write; a worker in a shipyard who could not tell time or read.

There are just a lot of people who cannot function.
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Old 12-28-2010, 22:38   #1207
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Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
This thread isn't about tc or anyone else here for that matter....it's about the injustice of handouts and what will happen when the ghetto-dwellers no longer get them.

-Emt1581
Interestingly enough I heard a quote today that rang true:

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."

-Herb Stein

As for tc, you're correct of course. But the fact of the matter is the tc issue is what brought it to epic proportions.
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Old 12-28-2010, 22:52   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
This thread isn't about tc or anyone else here for that matter....it's about the injustice of handouts and what will happen when the ghetto-dwellers no longer get them.

-Emt1581
Disagree with this,tc took on the d/advocate roll and was proven wrong.He played the antithesis of the OP.I do however agree that the "entitlement" folk will run amuck when the "checks" stop.'08.
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Old 12-28-2010, 22:56   #1209
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Disagree with this,tc took on the d/advocate roll and was proven wrong.He played the antithesis of the OP.I do however agree that the "entitlement" folk will run amuck when the "checks" stop.'08.
Good point about tc. But there was MANY points where this conversation just took a turn into "lets prove tc's a commie"...and again, it was never about him...possibly the mindset that he spoke to and represented but not him...himself.

TC feel free to chime back in at any time.

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Old 12-28-2010, 23:00   #1210
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Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
Good point about tc. But there was MANY points where this conversation just took a turn into "lets prove tc's a commie"...and again, it was never about him...possibly the mindset that he spoke to and represented but not him...himself.

TC feel free to chime back in at any time.

-Emt1581
True. But it was a lot of fun. And it was a great illustration of what is destroying the nation.....what will actually cause "the handouts to stop".

For the record, no one proved tc was a commie. tc556guy did that all by himself.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:16   #1211
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:59   #1212
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
To: MannyA - Let me share a dose of reality with you.

I was in the infantry. We had a lot of 18 year olds who never were ready to work at 7 am, didn't know how to make a bed or cook a meal. Going further, a number of them didn't know how to brush their teeth (this is why we were shown films) and some had to have blanket parties before they understood that they were supposed to bathe.

I spoke recently to a senior, training nurse at UCLA. She had to instruct the students on how to wipe their asses so that they didn't infect themselves.

I know Americans who cannot read, cannot count. My girlfriend handles cargo operations at an airport. More than one handling company employee cannot count the number of pallets that are put on a plane. I knew a manager of a dye house who could count, but not write; a worker in a shipyard who could not tell time or read.

There are just a lot of people who cannot function.
Or, better put, are functionally illiterate.

Don't be fooled into thinking this is strictly an American concept. It happens everywhere.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:01   #1213
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Interestingly enough I heard a quote today that rang true:

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."

-Herb Stein
Well, yeah, thats because its a truism.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:54   #1214
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Originally Posted by tc556guy View Post
And if we dismantle the fed programs and states and private charities can't handle it, what then..you going to admit you were wrong and stand the Fed programs back up? Doubtful.
If private charities can't or won't handle it, well, that's life.

Where does government derive its power to FORCE charity upon the masses to take from those who earn to give to those who receive?

If I want to give to charity or if I want to run a charity, that is out of my own moral code and beliefs. If the government is forcing charity upon you at the point of a gun (and IRS agents are armed), then it's not charity anymore at that point, it's a tax.

Tax =/= Charity
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:24   #1215
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Maybe it is just early ......but that is the best composed answer I've read in a long time.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceman View Post
Well, a few things to consider:

#1 Capitalism will self destruct. There are NO well balanced economic systems. These things emerged/developed. They were not designed/made. The reality of the universe is this. Poverty breeds poverty, and excess breeds excess. The rich WILL continue to accumulate wealth, and more and more will have less and less. Nature of the beast. It's not republican/democrat - it's human, it's greed.

#2 The level of lifestyle that the large middle class in this country enjoys is fundamentally unsustainable. We did that to ourselves. You can see the growth of imaginary economic prosperity throughout the 60's, right through the 70's, up to today. That will collapse and be eaten away. You'll go either up to the rich end, or down to the poor end. How rich are you REALLY? What skill and value do you have REALLY. every person over-estimates themselves to amazing degree's IMO.

#3 EVERY society has eventually came to a point where poor masses have ravaged a rich minority (a couple of exceptions - but very different cultures. And they are on their way there.

I always find it funny though - as a "middle class struggling person" you are probably wealthier than 90% of the worlds population. The poor in this country have no idea how poor they are not.

I think it's sad that we have some of the problems we do. There is no reason that a large number of basic health services aren't provided gratis just for being a tax paying citizen. Incredibly brilliant children who want to do good things for society and mankind can't afford an education, while rich dooshes go to harvard with one intention: Getting richer. And they already grew up with way more than any 10 people could want. I think that it is unbelievably tragic that children go without food and clothes in this country. But they do. There are a lot of ways to solve those issues. And you can do it without becoming a "welfare" state, or encouraging people to do nothing.

But the people that make those decisions are wealthy, and their number one goal is to stay that way, and they are paid to make laws that keep money for even wealthier people. You think a CEO of a mega corporation works any harder than anyone else? Nope. But he's going to make sure he keeps ALL of his money - and get as much of yours as possible.

We made wealth and material things the most important thing on the planet - now sit back and enjoy. we have lost touch with the difference between success and excess - and it's going to bite us.

And I don't know you EMT - but like I said; You are worried about the poor masses coming for you? You need to worry about the wealthy and powerful who exist to make YOU part of the poor masses.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:25   #1216
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Its A L I V E !

Survival/Preparedness Forum
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:08   #1217
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Maybe it is just early ......but that is the best composed answer I've read in a long time.
It's one of the worst I've ever seen. Ignoramus maximus.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Aceman Survival/Preparedness Forum
Well, a few things to consider:

#1 Capitalism will self destruct.


Not necessarily. depends how we handle it.

There are NO well balanced economic systems.

Nor would there be. The imbalances correcting themselves cause the churn of activity that IS commerce. Just the same as if the temperatures and pressures were equal everywhere on Earth, there would be no wind or sea currents.

These things emerged/developed.

So?

They were not designed/made.

Relevance?

The reality of the universe is this. Poverty breeds poverty, and excess breeds excess.

Mindsets breed mindsets. Parents pass along to their children...well or ill...or do nothing at all.

The rich WILL continue to accumulate wealth, and more and more will have less and less. Nature of the beast.

Well, one true statement. this is actually Biblical. The poor will always be among us.

It amazes me why this concept amazes so many people. About the rich getting richer. What did you THINK they would do?

1. If you're rich, you have economy of scale. You can buy needs in bulk at a cheaper unit cost, so your cost of whatever activity, consuming, investing, is always less and you operate more efficiently. similarly,

2. If you have $100 in the bank (because you're poor) and make 5% interest, at the end of the year you have $105 dollars. You made 5 bucks in interest. If you are wealthier, and have one million dollars in the bank at 5% interest, you made $50,000 in interest. At some point of wealth, you can conceivably make more interest than your actual cost of living, it doenst get spent and your pile grows even larger.

Why does that amaze so many people? The rich got richer? Next you'll tell me there's gambling in the casino!

Similarly, if you have a poor mindset, make poor purchasing decisions, don't understand THRIFT, emulate other poor people around you, fail to absorb an education and constantly drown your misery in drugs, liquor, lottery tickets and other amusements you will remain POOR.

GUESS WHAT?! That is NOT a rich person's fault! No one held you back but YOU! It is NOT a zero sum game where your poverty is the result of someone else being wealthy...the two concepts function independently.

It just feels good to have someone else to blame. Scapegoat, anyone?

It's not republican/democrat

Duh.

- it's human, it's greed.

Greed is good. Actually its called enlightened self-interest. Do you have your worst interests at heart or your best?

Do you try to protect yourself or hurt yourself? Do you willingly pay more for something when you could pay less? No? Does that make you greedy?


#2 The level of lifestyle that the large middle class in this country enjoys is fundamentally unsustainable. We did that to ourselves.

No, it actually could be a lot BETTER if we had kept more of our own money with a less taxing government. If we go too far with our own finances we self destruct and are forced into bankruptcy. Therefore, we're self regulating.

The Fedgov OTOH just borrows and prints more and taxes more and keeps on chugging. The end result will still be default but they seem to extend the misery indefinitely and will just happen later.

You can see the growth of imaginary economic prosperity throughout the 60's, right through the 70's, up to today. That will collapse and be eaten away. You'll go either up to the rich end, or down to the poor end.

Einstein! see above.

How rich are you REALLY? What skill and value do you have REALLY. every person over-estimates themselves to amazing degree's IMO.

I'll settle for not being a net debtor. NEt positive financial worth, no spurious debt, live within my means, no wolves at the door.

#3 EVERY society has eventually came to a point where poor masses have ravaged a rich minority (a couple of exceptions - but very different cultures. And they are on their way there.

I always find it funny though - as a "middle class struggling person" you are probably wealthier than 90% of the worlds population. The poor in this country have no idea how poor they are not.

Wait, you're confusing us. Which is it? Unsustainable middle class, but we're actually wealthier? The poor get poorer, but they have no idea how poor they are not? So I guess our poor are not really poor, so its just middle class and wealthy. OK, so everything is ok in Whoville.

Actually, how we measure poor in this country creates the lie of so much poverty. You are technically poor in this country if you do not have cable tv or a dishwasher. Heck, that was how I grew up and we wern't poor! Not that I noticed anyway. I had clothes on my back, lived in a nice house and we had great schools. I was POOR?


I think it's sad that we have some of the problems we do.

You whine an awful lot Oh Melodramatic One. You have waaay too much time on your hands.

People cut their own deals. Get over it.

There is no reason that a large number of basic health services aren't provided gratis just for being a tax paying citizen.

Yes there is, Oh Socialist One.

Provided GRATIS? Who the HELL are YOU to demand something for FREE? A doctor goes to 10 years of college, med school and internship, has to buy pharma an med supplies, hire nurses, pay rent and malpractice insurance, but he has to stop what he's doing and treat you for nothing because you're resident here?

HEALTHCARE IS NOT A RIGHT. If it were, you could demand it at any time, at any place at any price...or no price at all. What gives you the right to commandeer private citizens and force them to render service?

Healthcare is about delivery....Hospitals, doctors, nurses, drugs. They cost money and no you may not have it for free for the asking. Pay the admission price like everyone else. The arrogance of it all!

Incredibly brilliant children who want to do good things for society and mankind can't afford an education,

There is NO ONE in this country who wants an education who can't have one. If you're brilliant, there's catalogues of scholarships available at the local library. Do you sit around inventing this fiction?

If you're so brilliant, you'll figure out a way to get to college. Personally, I held two jobs and went at night. There was no one holding me back. No one paid for it or gave me anything. It takes NOT being lazy.

Who suffers from this fictitious malady? I'll say you made this up out of whole cloth.


while rich dooshes go to harvard

That must be you. A real Harvard ******' would spell it properly.

with one intention: Getting richer.

You expect them to work themselves into poverty? And the problem with this is.....what?

Dad, I'm aspiring to poverty and a lack of success. I need to learn how to spell doosh! Can you pop open your wallet?

And they already grew up with way more than any 10 people could want.

Crass generalization. People of all stripes have gone to ivy league instittuions. You are predjudiced, bigoted, narrowminded and suffering from class envy.


I think that it is unbelievably tragic that children go without food and clothes in this country.

The few that do have their parents to blame. Its not society's fault. If you're really feeling guilty about the state of the world, go join the peace corp. That way you can actually make something good of yourself rather than just "feeling" sad like the "******" in the R Lee Ermy psychiatrist chair from the Geico commercial.


But they do.

A lot less than you'd imagine.

There are a lot of ways to solve those issues. And you can do it without becoming a "welfare" state, or encouraging people to do nothing.


Its called parents taking responsibility.

But the people that make those decisions are wealthy,

No, its negligent parents. Its not a zero sum game where the rich are wealthy at your expense. The rich make their decisions, and the poor make theirs.

For that matter, rich or poor has nothing to do with negligent parenting. There are wealthy people who are lousy parents too. But no one feels sorry their kids even though they suffer too.


and their number one goal is to stay that way, and they are paid to make laws that keep money for even wealthier people.

Nice little bucket your bigoted a## just put all those people in with your crass generalizations.

You think a CEO of a mega corporation works any harder than anyone else? Nope.

He works smarter.

But he's going to make sure he keeps ALL of his money - and get as much of yours as possible.

He did not get wealthy giving it all away. What did you expect? And unless this CEO FORCED you to give him your money, the transaction was VOLUNTARY.

We made wealth and material things the most important thing on the planet - now sit back and enjoy.

You assume far too much.

we have lost touch

Who's WE?

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Old 12-29-2010, 12:43   #1218
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With Glock29 on this

Contrary to the article, I haven't "lost touch". I owe on my car - and that is it.

When you get old enough, you stop caring about whining, who is "gaming" the system, what others have, and concepts of entitlement. At that point you are concerned with making life pleasant, exercising, enjoying food and companionship.

I am not a victim.

If the general welfare checks stopped; if illegals were denied medical care because of status and lack of insurance, if public college tuitions were raised to cover the actual costs of providing a college education, people would find ways to cope.

Don't expect fairness in life. Don't think for a moment that one size fits all.

There are a lot of people in this country who have long term disabilities, mental problems, are illiterate, unable to cope or function. In fact most people go around on the verge of a nervous breakdown and play victim.

If you feel like helping, do so. I do. No matter what you ever do, what the government does, or what the neighbors might do, there will never be enough time, money or resouces to deal with all the problems.
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Old 12-29-2010, 15:35   #1219
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Quick truths as I see them:

Life is not fair. Never was meant to be. Nature never set it up that way. Life is what you make of what you are given. If you weren't given much, earn it, then make what you can out of what you earned.

Life is not a zero sum game. Your gain is not predicated on someone else's loss. Conversely, someone else's gain is not predicated on your loss. Both parties can gain from mutually beneficial transactions. If it weren't so, barter systems and trade would never exist.

Greed is not wanting to keep what you have worked for and earned. That is just basic human nature. Animals exhibit the same behavior. You don't see lions killing a wildebeest and then giving it to the hyenas who didn't work for it. Lions take what they want, get full, share with the pride, then leave the carcass for the scavengers. Are the lions being greedy?

In that vein, greedy is coveting what you didn't earn. Greed is wanting more than what you earned or deserve. Greed is wanting something others have earned but you want for yourself. Greed is taking from those who earned to give to those who didn't. Classic example. Kids are prime showcases for greed. Kids have to be taught to share. Kids want to horde stuff for themselves, not just their own things, but they like to take from others, parents, friends, whatever. If they like it, they will take it, until they are told no. To that, we tell the kids, don't be greedy, don't take everything, share with others, etc. However, if the kid is merely hoarding his own stuff and not sharing, we say don't be selfish, not don't be greedy. Remember that?

Voluntary giving is charity. Forced redistribution of wealth in the name of charity is Socialism/Marxism/Communism. Don't take my word for it, read Marx and the 10 Pillars of Communism. It's the very basis of Communism, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Jesus Christ would have given freely to those in need and asked us to do the same, but he will never do it at the point of a sword to force it upon us. Only the government, in the name of beneficence, can use force to compel giving from those who earned and might not want to give.

When you feed a stray animal, it learns that there is free food and stops looking for its own food. Pretty soon, the stray camps out waiting for you to hand it food. It doesn't even bother hunting or scavenging. It also starts expecting you to give it food after a while, sitting there, maybe barking or meowing, and staring at you, waiting. You give the stray no incentive to be self-sufficient anymore. That is also how wild animals become domesticated. Domesticated animals are easy to control and we use them to do our bidding. Now replace the scenario with government being the feeder and citizens as the strays. Draw your own parallels.

A beneficient government that gives you everything is also a government that can turn in an instant and take everything away to control or dictate your life. If you want to keep receiving handouts, you better act accordingly.

If you are complaining about someone being richer and life is not fair because he has more than you, remember, there's someone who thinks you are the rich one because you have more than him. Guess what? You might just be the "rich" person that gets his stuff taken away when the government works its way down the line of giving stuff to those who have less. Someone always has less than you.

That's it for now. Feel free to disagree. I welcome discussions and arguments on my opinions.
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Old 12-29-2010, 17:10   #1220
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...Its not a zero sum game where the rich are wealthy at your expense. The rich make their decisions, and the poor make theirs...
I really wish more folks would realize that one simple thing: it's not a zero-sum game. Anyone can absolutely increase their assets without decreasing anyone else's assets.

Great yet simple example that's not my own; I believe I read in "The Richest Man in Babylon", or possibly "The Greatest Salesman in the World" - been years ago now & not sure which one it was.

Say a man builds a nice house (say $250,000 in our example), the way it's typically done; using contractors. (To keep the example simple, let's say he pays cash without borrowing.) When the job is done, that money has been distributed to the bricklayer, the carpenter, the plumber, the architect, the roofer, the cabinet-maker, etc. That $250,000 is absolutely gone from the homeowner's bank account and is now in the hands of various people & entities involved in the project. The $250,000 still exists, but it's just in different hands now.

However (comma), that house now exists where none did before, and it's worth at least $250,000 in itself. Consider that simple fact - at the beginning of the project, there was $250,000 cash in one person's hands; and at the end of that project, there's $250,000 cash (now in several person's hands), AND there's a new house worth another $250,000 in the community. That's "created" wealth, that's "economic growth", whatever term we want to use; but the fact is, there is now undeniably a greater amount of tangible value in that community than there was before that guy took the initiative (and risk) to undertake that project.

But in our society, when the roofer's helper blows his pay on X-box games and lottery tickets, he's somehow the "victim of the rich man living in the quarter-million-dollar house".

If the roofer's helper had spent his time on profitable things (work, training, certifications) rather than crap & pablum, he could be the roofing contractor, and then even a general contractor in his own quarter-million-dollar house. But that would take initiative & risk, and it's just simpler to ***** & moan about the rich guy.

Sorry for the vent & ramble - that's not directed at any particular post or poster; just simply at the entitlement mindset itself and its hosts. I just pay too many friggin taxes to sit & listen to lazy, patronizing, socialist whiners who think I don't pay enough taxes and that they should get more stuff for free. Whiny brats.
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Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31