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Old 04-24-2010, 10:32   #1
Kegs
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Fun reading when looking up 10mm reloading

If you search the terms "reloading 10mm clark" in a search directly like Google, you will read some of the more interesting threads on the subject of reloading 10mm.

You all don't know nuclear loads until you read what is available out there.

Anyone else remember "Clark" on other reloading forums?

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Old 04-24-2010, 14:08   #2
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Yes I remember him being kick off quite a few boards...his data was way of the charts...he antagonize my people on various boards too often.

Don't always believe what you read on the internet as the truth. Besides there are many vairables that may not be discussed in enough detail to be considered safe for use in your equipment. That is why we must take it with a grain of salt and work up carefully then test as we go with careful observations. When it comes to ballistics not everthing is equal!

I have seen data out there, that as I started working up the loads for my equipment/componets that raised the warning flags before I got close to what was being published.
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Old 04-24-2010, 14:11   #3
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Yes I remember him being kick off quite a few boards...his data was way of the charts...he antagonize my people on various boards too often.
Judging by the looks of that fireball on the end of your right pistol on your avatar, you must be using one of his loads. It looks a lot bigger than my fireball - and mine is from a 155gr. XTP loaded up with max Blue dot.
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Old 04-24-2010, 14:15   #4
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That is a theactrical screen shot from the move "The Shadow" they wanted enhanced flash I suppose for the show. Maybe Clark loaded for them???

Mine aren't quite that flashy!
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Old 04-24-2010, 19:39   #5
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That is a theactrical screen shot from the move "The Shadow" they wanted enhanced flash I suppose for the show. Maybe Clark loaded for them???

Mine aren't quite that flashy!
...'course I was just kidding...but seriously, based on the info he has posted in the past, it wouldn't surprise me to see a fireball that big coming out of his latest 200% loaded heli-arc welded full support 40 S&W barrel.

I have contacted him recently and am interested to hear his thoughts on whether I should stick with the 10mm or just get a full support .40 s&w barrel and load them up nuclear. His belief is that the 40 case is stronger than the 10mm case due to difference in the primer pocket sizes.

He's an engineer with a ton of experience in experimenting with these loads. I'm not, so I wouldn't doubt that he is correct.

The latest thing I've read is his procedure of "double compression" which as best I can understand it, is physically compressing powder into a case so you can add more, then compressing it even more with the bullet seating. It's a technique that can add more powder into a case where traditionally there wouldn't be enough case capacity to load a given amount of powder.

I am not interested in jumping right into this, but I can't say I'm not intrigued, since I can't find anyone else out there doing this sort of thing - and .44 mag energy coming out of a compact pistol is an impressive feat.

Such a goal if reached within reasonable safety, could certainly have a value in the realm of hunting big game with a small pistol.
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Old 04-24-2010, 23:54   #6
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Don't get lured into his game of stiring the pot so to speak.

Reasonable & Safety doesn't fit his equation of blowing stuff up! Laws of Physics can not be broken and maintain Safety with the ballistic footprint.

I have seen many expanded, smiley, blown out casings as well as cases where the primers just fall out due to people pushing th envelope of pressure...

I prefer to load to known and documented data which is worked up to methodicly for my weapons, looking for reliability, performance as well as accuracy with repeatable results.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:39   #7
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Don't get lured into his game of stiring the pot so to speak.
Not really interested in stirring the pot, but certainly I can appreciate experimentation and performance.

Quote:
Reasonable & Safety doesn't fit his equation of blowing stuff up! Laws of Physics can not be broken and maintain Safety with the ballistic footprint.
No need to break the laws of physics, but certainly the published loading charts are conservative due to having been written for a variety of firearms.

Quote:
I have seen many expanded, smiley, blown out casings as well as cases where the primers just fall out due to people pushing th envelope of pressure...
I don't doubt it a bit.

Quote:
I prefer to load to known and documented data which is worked up to methodicly for my weapons, looking for reliability, performance as well as accuracy with repeatable results.
I prefer to start with that data and expand upon it under my specific conditions (which will include a 23# recoil spring and fully supported barrel) One never knows until one tries. I am looking forward to a good safe load well off the published manufacturer's charts and into the .44 mag energy category.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:43   #8
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I agree with The Shadow. Why push pass the limits in a self defence/target or hunting pistol? I'm all for pushing the limits for some kind of return, but what have you gained except maybe a pistol with alot more wear on it.Murphy's law likes to play also. I too, load em hot. But my accuracy aint so hot. Maybe it has something to do with me turning my head away before I pull the trigger.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:04   #9
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Maybe it has something to do with me turning my head away before I pull the trigger.
That's an honest observation. What I have found is that when I compare a Double tap 200 grain controlled expansion round (supposedly a hot load) to even a moderately-hand loaded 155gr. xtp, (using blue dot) the D.T. seems to exhibit much less recoil.

The lower weight higher speed bulllets are painful to shoot. The DT 200 is a *****cat (though it still throws the brass about 20' with a stock spring.)

I have a feeling that a 200 grain bullet out of this gun going at faster than published velocities isn't going to be very brutal from a recoil standpoint - and won't be very hard on the pistol either, if the correct springs are used to deal with the force between the frame & slide.

Obviously, it needs solid case support and needs to be worked up, but I am certain the published figures are conservative.

I am not interested in a load that is all over the paper - I want one that hits the mark every time (high precision) - but I want a significant amount of energy to go to the target (like 200gr. @1400fps M.V.) - I could be wrong, but I don't believe this is too much to ask for.
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Old 04-26-2010, 15:36   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegs View Post

I am not interested in a load that is all over the paper - I want one that hits the mark every time (high precision) - but I want a significant amount of energy to go to the target (like 200gr. @1400fps M.V.) - I could be wrong, but I don't believe this is too much to ask for.
You are going to have a really hard time getting 1400fps out of a 200 gr load based on my experience. But if you, let us know!
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Old 04-26-2010, 19:59   #11
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KEGS wrote:
Quote:
I am not interested in a load that is all over the paper - I want one that hits the mark every time (high precision) - but I want a significant amount of energy to go to the target (like 200gr. @1400fps M.V.) - I could be wrong, but I don't believe this is too much to ask for.
I don't think this is impossible, but highly improbable with a 5" or 6" barrel semiauto pistol... Please see this site http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/10mm.html

I be much happier just to find commercial ammo that provided exactly 1200fps with a 200gr HP bullet (original loading were with 200gr FMJ) from a 5" barreled semiauto pistol like the S&W1006 or Glock 20. (people how have actually tested these factory rounds for themselves have found the data to be more like 1180 fps)
If you achieve 1200 fps for the 5" that would be all I would expect from the cartridge given the present selection of powders avalible to the handloaders. You might see the numbers you speak of at 18" barrel lengths.

While a round might be developed to produce the numbers you are seeking this rounds MAP would be quite high and only be shot from closed and locked breech weapons. Bullets might need to be seated longer than the 1.250" COAL. Powders which are too slow would still have the casing walls pressed tightly against the chamber and extraction would be hammpered in semiauto uses.

The bullet design would probably have to be a full 40 caliber slug from nose to tail, the reason I say this is the lenght would be physically shorter and the amount of bullet which extends into the cartridge would be effectively shorter allowing more space for powder at the proper COAL. While this would increase the frictional surface area in contact with the bore it would still keep pressures slightly lower than the bullet with a profile which placed more bullet inside the casing occuping powder space or compressing the charge even further.

This is the situation I ran into with the 200gr Hornady XTP (longer) vs a FMJ (shorter), to adjust this I use the 1.260" instead of 1.250" COAL.

The loads I have tested and use fall in this 1180-1200 fps with the Hornady 200gr XTP fro a 5" S&W1006 22# recoil spring with Blue Dot & Power Pistol powders. There may be more to be had but primers are starting to flatten and I don't want the firing pin to wipe as this will surely cause problems if the primer material shears into the firing pin channel.

Trust me after 20+ years of pushing this caliber and testing and retesting, I am lucky to achieve the original specs safely with my pistols with reliability and accuracy I desire. I will tell you this I carry what I load so my life depends on my decision to use my own handloaded ammunition.

So in conclusion the trade offs are first and formost functionallity & accuracy...

Best of luck in your quest!
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