Are books really necessary?

marklukich · 04-19-2010, 17:36

Just getting started in reloading... Think I've read every thread available in the Reloading Area...

Most often, I see recommendations to get data from at least 2 or more books for a given load...

My question is this - with all the information available on the internet, are reloading books really necessary?

Just asking - mainly because I only plan on reloading 9mm for my Glocks and Kahr and can't see a reason why I would need books full of information I don't want/need just to get the (very) limited amount of info I do want...

Thanks in advance for any and all inputs...

dudel · 04-19-2010, 17:42

So get the Loadbooks. Who verifies the info you find on the internet? someone on this forum makes a type on the charge weight and how would you know? Once you have experience, you know that 8gr of BE in a 9mm is just wrong, but how would you know just starting out?

As an example, yesterday I was looking for a load for 45 ACP with a 185gr HBRN plated Berry's projectile and BE. The Lyman book seemed low by 2 grains compared to Hornady, Speer and Loadbooks. Looking at the velocity numbers, I was able to extrapolate a load that fits with all books.

marklukich · 04-19-2010, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudel

how would you know?

I wouldn't... and I know that...

I wasn't talking about using load data from individuals, I was talking about using it off of company sites - such as www.wwpowder.com for Winchester WSF powder. Wouldn't they know and/or verify their information as much as a book publisher?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to see what the benefit would be...

DoctaGlockta · 04-19-2010, 17:47

This guy says now you need 4 books.

dudel · 04-19-2010, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by marklukich

I wouldn't... and I know that...

I wasn't talking about using load data from individuals, I was talking about using it off of company sites - such as www.wwpowder.com for Winchester WSF powder. Wouldn't they know and/or verify their information as much as a book publisher?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to see what the benefit would be...

Again, get a loadbook for the caliber you are interested. Costs about what you'd spend for a Happy meal, and you get load data from a wide variety of sources for a wide variety of projectiles.

marklukich · 04-19-2010, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudel

Again, get a loadbook for the caliber you are interested.

Didn't know they made them for individual calibers... Any recommendations for a book for 9mm?

And thanks, btw...

Diesel_Bomber · 04-19-2010, 17:53

Load books are cheaper than one KB.

Just sayin'.

robin303 · 04-19-2010, 17:58

+1 on the load books. I trust the loads on Manufactures Web Sites and some seem weak so they wont get sued is my guess but question some others given by someone off the street when there is nobody to double check. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

robin303 · 04-19-2010, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by marklukich

Didn't know they made them for individual calibers... Any recommendations for a book for 9mm?

And thanks, btw...

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#9mm..._1-2-4_8-16-32

Get it in 3 days.

tyger006 · 04-19-2010, 18:03

I believe that manuals are a must for the reloader. I am sure you can get by with single caliber load books if you really really do your homework online, but having those books is a huge resource! I get a different one every other year and I still reference the old ones more than you would think!

dudel · 04-19-2010, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by marklukich

Didn't know they made them for individual calibers... Any recommendations for a book for 9mm?

And thanks, btw...

No problem.

http://loadbooks.com/

cheaper at Midway:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=185458

They print one book per caliber.

Don

dudel · 04-19-2010, 18:05

+1 Powders change. My Hornady books show different charge weights for the same caliber/projectile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyger006

I believe that manuals are a must for the reloader. I am sure you can get by with single caliber load books if you really really do your homework online, but having those books is a huge resource! I get a different one every other year and I still reference the old ones more than you would think!

GioaJack · 04-19-2010, 18:33

The need for loading manuals is dependent on how much you want to learn about and how involved you want to be in your hobby.

If your goal is just to be a pair of hands on an assembly line the reputable on-line resources or load books in your calibers will fill your needs quite well.

It very much akin to following a recipe in a cook book... it certainly doesn't make you a chef but it will satisfy your immediate appetite.

Loading manuals contain much more information than just load data... they all have chapters on the mechanics of ballistics, reviews of equipment, what you should do and how to do it, what you shouldn't do and how to avoid it and more importantly... why.

If you ever want to get to a point where you can pass on information to the next generation of loaders you'll need to know and understand a lot more than you'll ever learn out of a cook book.

Jack

RLDS45S · 04-19-2010, 18:38

The information contained on the internet IS NOT SUFFICIENT for safe and reliable reloading. The NEWBE reloading needs at a min. Lyman 49th, and at least 2 or more of the following manuals.....Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler, Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, Handloading for Competition, and the granddaddy The ABC's of Reloading. To question it is not a good idea. Buy once and cry once! You can never have enough information.....

dudel · 04-19-2010, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLDS45S

The information contained on the internet IS NOT SUFFICIENT for safe and reliable reloading. The NEWBE reloading needs at a min. Lyman 49th, and at least 2 or more of the following manuals.....Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler, Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, Handloading for Competition, and the granddaddy The ABC's of Reloading. To question it is not a good idea. Buy once and cry once! You can never have enough information.....

+1 After 20+ years of reloading, I still buy books. I still learn something new from them. Jack made a good point. Do you want to eat fast food all your life; or would you like to try something much, much better?

Those who barely scratch at the surface of this hobby, will never reap the full benefits of it.

M4J0R T0M · 04-19-2010, 20:26

Let me just throw this out there...

SAFETY FIRST!

I am much like you, very new to reloading. Starting off, I read bunches of info here and on other forums and thought the same thing, "Do I really need those books?". But, as I discovered, every one had the same opinion. Start with the manuals. If you're coming to the forums seeking knowledge and advice, take the one piece of advice that is universal amongst all the old-timers (yes I'm talking about you Jack), and get yourself some manuals. I got the ABC's of reloading and Lyman's 49th.

Both manuals had very valuable safety info that I never ran across on any of the forums. So if you value the idea of keeping your hands and face intact, do yourself a favor and get a couple manuals.

mattellis2 · 04-19-2010, 20:38

here is my pet load for .308 winchester....

trim to length: 2.005"
primer: remington 9.5 LRP
projectile: 175 grain a-max
propellant: 123.2 grains of bullseye. note: this is a compressed load.
c.o.l. 2.780"

hey, you read it on the internet, it has to be good, right?

FlyfishermanMike · 04-19-2010, 21:51

I don't own any of the books but have read them all. I would start a new load without checking 3+ of them then averaging them out. With some loads I've found a pretty big range and even very different max loads. The internet is a great supplement but shouldn't be your end all. Some books have seemed pretty worthless with little amounts of data depending on the powder. I can't believe how some can leave out an important piece like OAL?!

380Seecamp · 04-20-2010, 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattellis2

here is my pet load for .308 winchester....

trim to length: 2.005"
primer: remington 9.5 LRP
projectile: 175 grain a-max
propellant: 123.2 grains of bullseye. note: this is a compressed load.
c.o.l. 2.780"

hey, you read it on the internet, it has to be good, right?

Guaranteed one-hole group!

marklukich · 04-20-2010, 04:59

I appreciate all the advice - not sure I fully understand it - yet - but will definitely heed it...

I'll go see if I can find Lyman's 49th and the ABC's of Reloading and do some (more) reading before I get started.

I may be old and stubborn, but I'm not stupid. When every response says I need the books and not a single one says no, that tells me I need to open my mind up more and listen to what I'm being told...

Again - thanks to all who took the time to respond.

M4J0R T0M · 04-20-2010, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by marklukich

I appreciate all the advice - not sure I fully understand it - yet - but will definitely heed it...

I'll go see if I can find Lyman's 49th and the ABC's of Reloading and do some (more) reading before I get started.

I may be old and stubborn, but I'm not stupid. When every response says I need the books and not a single one says no, that tells me I need to open my mind up more and listen to what I'm being told...

Again - thanks to all who took the time to respond.

Great choice in reading material. You will find some of the info redundant but all of it is useful. The ABC's are more like a newb's guide to reloading, and the Lyman's is more advanced and also has actual load data.

I'll give you an example of how the books probably saved some of my extremities. Primarily, I load .40 which is a very high pressure load, even on the lower end. This in turn means you have to be very careful with case inspection to make sure you dont have any over pressuring. I read on here about the infamous Glock bulge on .40 cases from where the case is not fully supported under the feedramp. Most of the replies were that it is normal and not to worry about it. And had I not gotten the manual and read on the importance of checking ALL your brass I could have potentially had a KB.

Now you may already know that you have to check every case, if so then you are not much a newb as I was, but at the very least the books will confirm some of the good advice you find here and dispel the rest.

Oh yeah, welcome to reloading. It is a fun and addicting hobby.

fredj338 · 04-20-2010, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by marklukich

I wouldn't... and I know that...

I wasn't talking about using load data from individuals, I was talking about using it off of company sites - such as www.wwpowder.com for Winchester WSF powder. Wouldn't they know and/or verify their information as much as a book publisher?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to see what the benefit would be...

The problem w/ a lot powder manuf data is limited powder/bullet choices. Some, like Alliant, only give a max charge wt. Is it just me or are new reloaders afraid to read a book? The other point is you can have the books on your bench where you reload. The on-line soiurces are great for cross ref but my computer is not at my bench. Of course yo ucan print out stuff & organize it, oh yeah, like a loading manual.

Gunnut 45/454 · 04-20-2010, 12:54

Just my $.02! Being lazy about reloading will get you into trouble sooner or later! If you enjoy the use of your hands and eye's an may even your life then use the manuals! Yes alot of the reloading manuals are online -use them as well but that one time you don't have access to the net and you decide to go off of memory might be the last time you ever shoot again! Simple safety practices can make for a lifetime of shoot joy- one lapse can ruin a life is it worth it?

das9mm26 · 04-20-2010, 13:13

[quote=Diesel_Bomber;15153433]Load books are cheaper than one KB.

Just sayin'.[/quote

+1 on GETTING THE BOOKS....and ABSORBING THEIR CONTENTS!!!!
Yes, the Internet DOES have a variety of GOOD, informative sites on reloading data...BUT, as others have said...This ISN'T a "perfect" world, and typos DO occur.....and, when it comes to reloading......MISTAKES CAN COST YOU!!!!
For me, the best bet was to get a couple of the better-known publications (in my case, the Lyman 49th Edition and "The A-B-C's of Reloading") and just "devour" the contents (...err...figuratively....!) BEFORE buying ANY reloading equipment. Had I rushed into my first purchase "plan"....it would have cost me several hundred $$ more than what I ended up with--AFTER reading about the pros and cons of various presses available.....Some folks want a simple, no-frills setup; others like something a bit faster to operate and more elaborate....It all boils down to what YOU want to accomplish...and HOW YOU choose to do it.
Taking time up front to sort everything out will reap dividends down the road......here's hoping you get to like reloading and savor its many benefits!
Good Luck! Stay Safe!

WiskyT · 04-20-2010, 15:58

Books? Who needs books? obama reads books and that's all I need to know about books.