[Reignman]

Like the title says... How much does a full length guide rod improve the 1911?
How much does the bull barrel improve it?

Why does a Springfield operator (expensive entry level 1911) not have a full length? Or, am I mistaken and it does?

[paul45]

A FLGR improves a 1911 by a factor of 0.

[kaw77]

I own both , and see no improvement from BB or FLGR... except the additional effort to break them down for cleaning

[CMG]

The FLGR at best, adds an ounce or two out front, but other than that, there really isn't any difference.

Bushing-less barrels work well in the shorter guns, but in a standard full size, they really don't add anything over a properly fit bushing.

Don't know about the operator, but my TRP came with the full-length guide rod. I replaced it with a standard guide rod/plug. I like them better.

[Eyescream]

Originally Posted by paul45

A FLGR improves a 1911 by a factor of 0.

Having an FLGR, I feel qualified to say this:

+1

[Makoman]

Originally Posted by paul45

A FLGR improves a 1911 by a factor of 0.

What he said. Had one in my XSE, replaced it with a standard/GI setup.

As for bull/bushingless barrels, the only reason that I can think of that they came to be is because it was difficult to have a relaiable 1911 of less than 4.25" with a bushing. The bushing would eventyally fail under stress, that's why you won't find any bushing's on guns with less than 4.25" barrel except maybe for some of the older Colt offficer's models.

[beretta-neo]

I personally prefer bull barrelled 1911s, and I like how the guiderod typically remains captive on the guiderods for bull barrelled guns.

[MoNsTeR]

An FLGR adds weight. That's it. Mostly that's what a bull barrel does too.

[Magus]

Standard GI setup is pretty much the way to roll in most cases as most here will tell you.

Bull barrel and a FLGR really don't do much other than make things more complicated than needed.

John Browning pretty much had the design near perfect from the beginning.

[ArmoryDoc]

It's all just a matter of personal preference. No real benefit of one to the other except on a match gun because you can tailor a match bushing to a match barrel. Otherwise, 6 of one and half dozen of another.

[Agent6-3/8]

Standard bushing with a G. I. guide rod works fine and is easy to strip.

[bac1023]

The FLGR adds some weight to the front of the gun, so this may help your accuracy, but the design itself does nothing.

The bull barrel can improve accuracy, since its generally a tighter setup with just one point of tolerance, instead of two.

[beretta-neo]

Well, I have a 9mm bull barrel. It REALLY ads some weight to the gun, as the barrel is so thick compared to a 45 barrel. My 1911 is probably 50oz or heavier.

[bac1023]

Originally Posted by beretta-neo

Well, I have a 9mm bull barrel. It REALLY ads some weight to the gun, as the barrel is so thick compared to a 45 barrel. My 1911 is probably 50oz or heavier.

With the full length dust cover, it may be 45-50oz.

[Lew-G17]

I cannot tell any difference in any of the 1911's I own, that is until it is time to field strip them, and then I much prefer the old original short rod and bushing.

[Jason D]

I always put a GI plug and guide rod in my guns.

I have no opinion on bull barrels.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by Jason D

I always put a GI plug and guide rod in my guns.

I have no opinion on bull barrels.

in other words the original Browning design?

[coal]

Bushing
For a 4" or less, bull. For 5" bushing. My 4" Kimber Compact Series I is as accurate as any production 5".

FLGR
4"-5" = no
3"-3.5" = yes

On the Kimber 4", you can replace the FLGR with a Commander size. Works 100% on mine and makes takedown WAY easier. Does leave the reverse plug hole in the front (just like on the Wilson).

[ambluemax]

The REAL reason for a FLGR according to patrick sweeny's book of the 1911: Without a guide rod, the recoil spring kinks around all over the place as the slide recoils. It was hypothesised waaay back in the day that they could get more life out of a recoil spring by using a guide rod to keep it in line as the slide retracts. It must have helped a little because its still used in other popular handgun designs like the glock, sig, m9, xd, ect. But, a recoil spring is a cheap part to replace and the added complexity of disassembly turns some people off. Also as some have said you get more weight out front. There is a vid on youtube where they shoot 1000 rds through a g19 and the guiderod melts and falls out- the gun keeps running. Its not imparitive to the operator of the gun.

Bull barrel you also get more weight out front. A friend also told me some thing its more dirt tolerant (not sure I buy that).

All my 1911's a bushing barrels without guide rods. Its a simple set up and just happens to be the way the guns I bought were configured.

How the operator is configured depends upon which operator you are talking about. All springfields except the GI and Milspec come with a guide rod. The champ operators have bull's, the TRP operator has a bull, the mc operator has a bushing. Strangely the lightweight operator doesn't say which it has(according to their websight), but I'd be inclined to think its a bushing like the MC operator it most closely resembles.

[Cobra64]

Originally Posted by bac1023

With the full length dust cover, it may be 45-50oz.

You can always add an aftermarket Blacksmith Anvil option.

.

[bac1023]

[JoshK]

nice one Cobra!

[sns3guppy]

Fifteen or twenty years ago, gun rag writers like Jan Libourel really hyped up the full length guide rod. The idea was that the rod would prevent the spring from kinking or binding, which might disable the weapon. The full length rod was supposed to do just as the name implies; act as a guide rod. Some theorized that it would increase accuracy as the slide moved by adding an extra contact point beyond the rails.

Both theories are bunk. Accuracy is a function of lockup when the slide is fully forward in battery, and has nothing to do with the slide after it's moved aft and the barrel has unlocked. The rod doesn't do anything to control stability of the slide anyway, as the rod free floats inside the dustcover, under spring tension; it offers no consistency to the aft travel of the slide, and does nothing to stabilize the slide. In other words the guide rod contributes nothing to accuracy or slide movement.

What a full length rod does do is complicate the take-down process, and can do just the opposite of what it's intended to do; decrease reliability or jam the weapon. Especially in the case of two-piece rods, a rod unscrewing during firing can cause a malfunction and damage or jam the weapon (I've had this happen). Some put locktite on the threads on the two-piece rods, but these further complicate the takedown process, and sometimes work, sometimes don't.

The recoil spring is captive between the barrel and dustcover housing, without need for additional guidance during compression and slide movement. The shortened traditional spring guide is more than adequate, otherwise.

[beretta-neo]

I'll tell ya what - I have the Dawson tool less guiderod in my ed brown. I LOVE This thing. open the slide and press the button - and then let the slide close. It holds the spring completely captive - just like a GLock. Makes disassembly SO SO easy.

Plus, one isn't suppose to turn the bushing on an expensive 1911 withthe slide closed - but that is standard disassembly practice. Anyway - I always found it hard to put the slide back just a bit (to alleviate this issue) and then turn the bushing.

With this guiderod, it's a non issue. The only problem with the toolless guiderod is that your spring cap must be able to be removed thru the rear of t he slide. On standard Springfield models, they MUST come out the front of the slide. So, the toolless guiderod won't work on all 1911s.

[Jason D]

Originally Posted by Reignman

in other words the original Browning design?

Pretty much.