GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2010, 16:57   #1
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
357 Sig Ranger T - Effective?

I came into the ownership of five new boxes of Ranger T 125gr 357 sig ammo and have been trying to find some information if an agency or police group use it and found it to be effective, meaning they are very happy with its performance in actual shootings. There is infomation out there that both Virginia and Texas state police are very pleased with the performance of 54234 Gold Dot 357 sig ammo in shootings that have occurred, but I have been unable to find anything on the Ranger T 357 sig. The 1,340 fps velocity does not seem that fast, but may not really be an indication of the rounds effectiveness.

If you know anything, I would be greatly appreciative. - Jim
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 17:25   #2
triggerjerk
Senior Member
 
triggerjerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,226
Have you tried looking at the le gel tests?
http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx
triggerjerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 17:45   #3
ABNAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggerjerk View Post
Have you tried looking at the le gel tests?
http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx
Wow, see how much the Gold Dot lost in expansion after heavy clothing? Almost .15"! Granted, the SXT lost some but not as much (and was larger in bare gelatin to begin with).
__________________
"...there's a man with a gun over there, tellin' me I got to beware..."

11C2P '83-'87
ABNAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 18:02   #4
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggerjerk View Post
Have you tried looking at the le gel tests?
http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx

Thanks, I have seen most of those. I am wondering if anyone is using it and what is their experience.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 18:11   #5
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
Wow, see how much the Gold Dot lost in expansion after heavy clothing? Almost .15"! Granted, the SXT lost some but not as much (and was larger in bare gelatin to begin with).
Even scarier than that is the Ranger T penetrating so shallow. Who wears 4 layers of denim? Either way, I would much rather have a little less expansion than an FBI/Miami scenario. Gold Dot has been VERY effective in this caliber in the real world.

If you just want expansion, buy 9mm 147gr HST. If you want to take full advantage of the extra velocity/penetration of the 357SIG, then get a bonded round. Otherwise it's just a waste of capacity and controllability.

Last edited by N/Apower; 05-01-2010 at 18:12..
N/Apower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 18:13   #6
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
Thanks, I have seen most of those. I am wondering if anyone is using it and what is their experience.
I am unaware of any agencies that use it, I am sure they exist, but I don't personally know of any. Let us know what you find if you dig further.
N/Apower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 18:43   #7
DRT
Senior Member
 
DRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,348
I believe the USSS uses it (or did at one time).
DRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 18:47   #8
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
I believe the USSS uses it (or did at one time).
No, Gold Dot, product# 53918.
N/Apower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 19:04   #9
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
I believe the USSS uses it (or did at one time).
They did at one time. In fact the Ranger T was develpoded for a larger procurement by USSS. I did not know what they us now and I am a little surprised at the LP Gold Dot.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 19:07   #10
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by N/Apower View Post
No, Gold Dot, product# 53918.
Please do not take this as an insult, but do you know that for a fact. The reason I said that was that a family member left the SS a couple of years ago and he told me at the time they were using the Ranger T. Due to the company around, I did not talk much about it and I am trying to locate him now.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 20:01   #11
glocksterr
DirtyGlockHippy
 
glocksterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NC,USA
Posts: 1,298
i may be wrong but i think i remember hearing it was used with great success in NC.
glocksterr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 21:06   #12
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
Please do not take this as an insult, but do you know that for a fact. The reason I said that was that a family member left the SS a couple of years ago and he told me at the time they were using the Ranger T. Due to the company around, I did not talk much about it and I am trying to locate him now.
Caliber Corner
N/Apower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 21:41   #13
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by N/Apower View Post
Caliber Corner
I am not sure what you are telling me. Was this an FBI test done for the USSS? I cannot read it all, but I am not questioning whether Gold Dots are good, I have been carrying them for the past years. Not much other choice early on anyway.

Winchester spent over one million dollars developing the Ranger T 357 sig round and their first big customer was the USSS. They do not exactly start from scratch and they would have had access to all of standard FBI methodology they wanted. Gold Dot's were out then so they knew where they stood with regard to penetration and expansion with the other bullets. Winchester designed this bullet to perform the way it does on purpose and that causes me to wonder why. The only way I am going to get that question answered is to hear about the experience with a somewhat large group that had somewhat frequent street shootings.

I enlaged it and see that it was an FBI test for USSS in 2001. If I remember correctly USSS signed a contract with Winchester for 1.6 million Ranger T rounds about that time or shortly before then. They may have used the Gold Dot, but I also know they used the Ranger. Do you have anything more recent then a ten year old test. It really does not matter in this quest usless they used the round and there is a published opinion of it's effectiveness.

Last edited by PghJim; 05-01-2010 at 21:52..
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 21:49   #14
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
I am not sure what you are telling me. Was this an FBI test done for the USSS? I cannot read it all, but I am not questioning whether Gold Dots are good, I have been carrying them for the past years. Not much other choice early on anyway.

Winchester spent over one million dollars developing the Ranger T 357 sig round and their first big customer was the USSS. They do not exactly start from scratch and they would have had access to all of standard FBI methodology they wanted. Gold Dot's were out then so they knew where they stood with regard to penetration and expansion with the other bullets. Winchester designed this bullet to perform the way it does on purpose and that causes me to wonder why. The only way I am going to get that question answered is to hear about the experience with a somewhat large group that had somewhat frequent street shootings
I'm sorry for the crappy quality, but you can make out on the "Notes" section that it says "Secret Service Round". It's blurry, yes, but it is there.
N/Apower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 21:49   #15
DRT
Senior Member
 
DRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
They did at one time. In fact the Ranger T was develpoded for a larger procurement by USSS. I did not know what they us now and I am a little surprised at the LP Gold Dot.

They probably had to change to a more humane round once obama got in office. j/k
DRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 21:54   #16
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
They probably had to change to a more humane round once obama got in office. j/k
Lol, they have used the Gold Dot for years. Note the "2001" date on that report I linked that denotes the USSS round as 53918.

Last edited by N/Apower; 05-01-2010 at 21:57..
N/Apower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 21:55   #17
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by N/Apower View Post
I'm sorry for the crappy quality, but you can make out on the "Notes" section that it says "Secret Service Round". It's blurry, yes, but it is there.
I was editing while you were posting, see the bottom of my above post.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 21:59   #18
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
When you enlarge it, the performance does not look that great. Yes there is some penetration, but very little expansion. I am not sure I would carry the round with that little expansion. Even on Bare Gel. 0.64, much smaller in everything else.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 22:05   #19
N/Apower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
I was editing while you were posting, see the bottom of my above post.
E-mail Hal Price of ATK and word your e-mail intelligently and you should get an answer within 24 hours. That is the best I can do there. However, everyone I know (Dr. Roberts, Todd Green, etc.) claim the USSS is using the 53918.
N/Apower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2010, 22:10   #20
DRT
Senior Member
 
DRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 1,348
I believe they used .357 Ranger T at one time. Read it in an article by Mas Ayoob a few years back. I think I've seen it referenced else where. Googled it.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...82551648/pg_2/

Last edited by DRT; 05-01-2010 at 22:12..
DRT is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 13:12.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 950
273 Members
677 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31