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Old 05-06-2010, 10:26   #61
ocjackel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
Slavery was not what the war was fought over or about.

There is absolutely no way I can un-teach what years of public education has drilled into you. I won't even try.
Clearly the South was worried about losing slavery. As others have posted 3 of the first 5 amendments in CSA constitution deal with protecting the institution of slavery.

Heck, you could argue that they cared more about protecting slavery than protecting freedom of religion, press, due process, the right to bear arms, etc. All of these rights were enumerated in their constitution well after slavery was.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:26   #62
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Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
CSA Constitution
Oh look they wanted to expand slavery into new "States"
Lincoln made West Virginia a new Union state during the war. And they were allowed to have slavery.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:28   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Speaking of confederate flag ignorance, I think the Georgia legislature drove that home better than I could. People complained about this:The Furball Forum

So they made it this:
The Furball Forum
Basically just saying, "we think you're too dumb to get this." They were right.



For you yankees, the new Georgia flag is the entire 1861-1863 national flag of of the CSA, with a state seal added in the middle of the stars.
I love the fact that they added "In God We Trust" to it - getting two birds with one stone.
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Last edited by 1811guy; 05-06-2010 at 10:28..
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:29   #64
marksiwel
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Originally Posted by glock_19guy1983 View Post
well he is somewhat right although it wasnt the csa bringing them over it was white people in general for 200 years prior to the war of northern aggression. If their ancestors hadnt been brought here they would be in africa starving and dying of aids right now. My ancestors came over here not as slaves but as subjects to a tyrant. Had they not come over i would probably be in Ulster Ireland. I would rather be here so i am thankfull. My 4xgreat grandfather was a captain in 3rd MS Cavalry 3rd regiment and was a slave owner. Was slavery right? No. Was it nessessary to the south's economy? Yes. It happened learn from it but leave it in the past where it belongs.
Would Africa be such a mess if we hadnt had the slave trade and the Europeans had colonized it?
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:29   #65
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Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
Thats it, I must be a mindless sheeple who cant think for himself.
So when you see the Swastika you dont think Nazi you think Eastern Symbol right ?

Why do you display symbols? To express an idea to others
The CSA flag as the public sees it now no longer represents the idea I wish to display.

Wrong. The CSA Flag as YOU see it no longer represents the idea YOU wish to display.
Welcome to the Pussification of Amercia.
Learn to respect other viewpoints, instead of wetting your bed over them.
At least you don't own a pit bull.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:31   #66
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Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
and we are in agreement.

Now why did the South leave? Other than slavery. In real terms not "The man was messing with them" why did they leave?
Multiple court decisions that were starting to limit slave trade and tightening the reigns on control of slave use and trade. Combined with the fact that many thought of Lincoln as an abolitionist during his election. The abolition of slavery would have devastated the economy of the south, whose agricultural base relied on slave labor.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:31   #67
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Why didn't the Union states free their slaves before they invaded the South?
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:32   #68
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Originally Posted by speedsix View Post
The Confederate flag is one of those symbols that has recently taken a more negative meaning. Not sure when it happened or why. I remember in the 1980s watching the Dukes of Hazard and nobody thought anything of the "General Lee" and how the roof was painted. There is no way a network show would glorify the Confederate symbol like that today.

In the 1980s, the Dukes of Hazard were seen as lovable rebels. They were the heros of the show. Something happened since then to change the idea of what the flag stands for.

I used to think the flag was kind of cool because I liked the rebel connotations. Now I sense that the flag is more a symbol of racism and ignorance for most people and that is why it has been met with more and more distaste.

I am from the northern Midwest so I don't have an inside view on the south like some of you guys. Not trying to start a flame war but why is the CSA flag seen in such a bad light by most people today? What changed in the past 20 years? I am curious because I can remember a time when it was not only seen as a symbol of hate.
It is not the Confederate Flag causinf the problems...it is the liberal wing and some loudmouth minorities trying to exert their dominance on society. When the race wars come it will be settled.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:33   #69
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Originally Posted by Natty View Post
Why didn't the Union states free their slaves before they invaded the South?
Because they wanted slaves too, the union didn't fight to free slaves, they fought because they were too proud to let the CSA secede.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:33   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocjackel View Post
Clearly the South was worried about losing slavery. As others have posted 3 of the first 5 amendments in CSA constitution deal with protecting the institution of slavery.

Heck, you could argue that they cared more about protecting slavery than protecting freedom of religion, press, due process, the right to bear arms, etc. All of these rights were enumerated in their constitution well after slavery was.
I never said it wasn't an issue I said it wasn't the de facto reason for the war. I really shouldn't have posted in the first place. I know how these threads end up. No persons opinion is going to change as most are to emotionally charged. I'll step back and let you folks have any opinion you care to have.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:34   #71
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Originally Posted by Natty View Post
Lincoln made West Virginia a new Union state during the war. And they were allowed to have slavery.
Well that had slaverly before when they were part of the Union, I believe that was part of their deal to become part of the Union. Also Lincoln needed all the Border states he could get during that time, look at what he did in Maryland to keep them in the Union and to protect the Capital.

Also the South wanted to expand further South into South America/central america
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:34   #72
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Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
It is not the Confederate Flag causinf the problems...it is the liberal wing and some loudmouth minorities trying to exert their dominance on society. When the race wars come it will be settled.

Yep. Helter Skelter.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:34   #73
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I find it amazing that so many can stand up and say that are proud patriots of the United States of America while at the same time flying the Confederate Flag which represents a time when the Southern States did not want to be part of the USA. I've always felt it was unpatriotic.

The problem with the Confederate Flag is the type of people who have historically used it to symbolize their movement/feelings towards people of color, jews, etc. While many of you may want to try holding on to all of the "Southern Pride" that goes with the flag, it's image has been ruined. Growing up Black in the South I distinctly remember that flag being flown by the more outwardly racist folks in the community. It's kinda hard to shake that image and many people of color have had the same experience.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:34   #74
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Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
Yep. I have no problem with the Flag as it was, but basically its been warped in such a way that its no longer viable for me to use/wear it to express the point I was hoping for.

I just use the Texas Flag, or the American flag, or the Dont Tread on Me, or Come and Take it.
Sadly the CSA Flag is retired as a symbol for me.

There are better movements for "States Rights" then the CSA Battle-flag that dredge up America's darkest period and its most evil institution.
Similar situation for me. I have always thought that CSA Battle Flag was one of the best looking flags out of american history, and the only flag I liked better was "Don't Tread On Me." Then the damn skin heads, neo-nazis, and other race hate groups started using it as their flag, and turned it into a symbol of intolerance, hatred and white power. Very sad, but there is not much that can be done about it now.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:37   #75
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Originally Posted by CLena88 View Post
Because they wanted slaves too, the union didn't fight to free slaves, they fought because they were too proud to let the CSA secede.
There was nothing in the US Constitution that prohibited states from seceding.

Was the Yankee invasion Unconstitutional?
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:39   #76
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Originally Posted by marksiwel View Post
Would Africa be such a mess if we hadnt had the slave trade and the Europeans had colonized it?

Most likely so White people didnt introduce aids to africa and we didnt introduce war and famine to them they had plenty of practice at that before we ever got there. Did you ever think that its just natural selection? The clorinating of the gene pool you might say.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:39   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edrobert View Post
I find it amazing that so many can stand up and say that are proud patriots of the United States of America while at the same time flying the Confederate Flag which represents a time when the Southern States did not want to be part of the USA. I've always felt it was unpatriotic.

The problem with the Confederate Flag is the type of people who have historically used it to symbolize their movement/feelings towards people of color, jews, etc. While many of you may want to try holding on to all of the "Southern Pride" that goes with the flag, it's image has been ruined. Growing up Black in the South I distinctly remember that flag being flown by the more outwardly racist folks in the community. It's kinda hard to shake that image and many people of color have had the same experience.
I find that ridiculous. The same logic could be (and is) applied to the American Flag.


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1217514
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:39   #78
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The CSA flag and the Confederate Battle Flag are not the same.

Last edited by Glock-it-to-me; 05-06-2010 at 10:39..
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:39   #79
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Where do you people come up with some of this crap?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_state_(United_States)

Last edited by cowboy1964; 05-06-2010 at 10:40..
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:45   #80
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Originally Posted by Berto View Post
Wrong. The CSA Flag as YOU see it no longer represents the idea YOU wish to display.
Welcome to the Pussification of Amercia.
Learn to respect other viewpoints, instead of wetting your bed over them.
At least you don't own a pit bull.



I think you just summed up all 530+ of marksiwel's rambling posts.
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