[glock_19guy1983]

Originally Posted by marksiwel

Would Africa be such a mess if we hadnt had the slave trade and the Europeans had colonized it?

Most likely so White people didnt introduce aids to africa and we didnt introduce war and famine to them they had plenty of practice at that before we ever got there. Did you ever think that its just natural selection? The clorinating of the gene pool you might say.

[Berto]

Originally Posted by edrobert

I find it amazing that so many can stand up and say that are proud patriots of the United States of America while at the same time flying the Confederate Flag which represents a time when the Southern States did not want to be part of the USA. I've always felt it was unpatriotic.

The problem with the Confederate Flag is the type of people who have historically used it to symbolize their movement/feelings towards people of color, jews, etc. While many of you may want to try holding on to all of the "Southern Pride" that goes with the flag, it's image has been ruined. Growing up Black in the South I distinctly remember that flag being flown by the more outwardly racist folks in the community. It's kinda hard to shake that image and many people of color have had the same experience.

I find that ridiculous. The same logic could be (and is) applied to the American Flag.


http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1217514

[Glock-it-to-me]

The CSA flag and the Confederate Battle Flag are not the same.

[cowboy1964]

Where do you people come up with some of this crap?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_state_(United_States)

[RedTop]

Originally Posted by Berto

Wrong. The CSA Flag as YOU see it no longer represents the idea YOU wish to display.
Welcome to the Pussification of Amercia.
Learn to respect other viewpoints, instead of wetting your bed over them.
At least you don't own a pit bull.

I think you just summed up all 530+ of marksiwel's rambling posts.

[Natty]

Originally Posted by marksiwel

Also Lincoln needed all the Border states he could get during that time, look at what he did in Maryland to keep them in the Union and to protect the Capital.

Yes indeed look at what Lincoln did in Maryland...

Thousands of Maryland citizens were arrested and held without trial.

Lincoln suspended the Writ of Habeas Corpus in Maryland.

The Chief Justice of the US, Roger B Taney ruled that Lincoln had violated the Constitution when he did this.

Many of The Maryland State legislature were arrested.

Many of the Baltimore city council were arrested.

The Police Chief of Baltimore and the Mayor of Baltimore were arrested.

A US Congressman representing Maryland, Henry May, was arrested.

These political arrests of prominent Marylanders for nothing other than suspected Southern sympathies upset many Marylanders.

One of them was named Booth.

"SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS"

[marksiwel]

Originally Posted by Berto

Wrong. The CSA Flag as YOU see it no longer represents the idea YOU wish to display.
Welcome to the Pussification of Amercia.
Learn to respect other viewpoints, instead of wetting your bed over them.
At least you don't own a pit bull.

The last line= wtf

I respect your viewpoint, I just think its wrong.
I will do nothing to STOP you from displaying the flag.
I just choose not to display it because its basically no morons have ruined it for the rest of us.

[glock_19guy1983]

Originally Posted by edrobert

I find it amazing that so many can stand up and say that are proud patriots of the United States of America while at the same time flying the Confederate Flag which represents a time when the Southern States did not want to be part of the USA. I've always felt it was unpatriotic.

No quite the opposite. I am a proud patriot of the United States of America but I am loyal to Mississippi first and formost. Were Mississippi to try to seccede agian i would be one of the first ones on the front line to defend her. That is the same way the confederates felt. State first and formost country second.

[marksiwel]

Originally Posted by RedTop

I think you just summed up all 530+ of marksiwel's rambling posts.

oh goody personal attacks

[Berto]

Originally Posted by marksiwel

The last line= wtf

I respect your viewpoint, I just think its wrong.
I will do nothing to STOP you from displaying the flag.
I just choose not to display it because its basically no morons have ruined it for the rest of us.

Re: pit bull.

You'd really hate life if you owned a pit bull. You think flying a CSA flag is bad?

[CLena88]

Originally Posted by Natty

There was nothing in the US Constitution that prohibited states from seceding.

Was the Yankee invasion Unconstitutional?

Hence why I said proud, not "legally compelled or obligated". I don't know if I would say unconstitutional, as the first shot was from the Merrimac, a Confederate ship, but the fallacy that the north went to war to free slaves is simply that, fallacy.

[Hucklebarry]

Originally Posted by CLena88

Hence why I said proud, not "legally compelled or obligated". I don't know if I would say unconstitutional, as the first shot was from the Merrimac, a Confederate ship, but the fallacy that the north went to war to free slaves is simply that, fallacy.

The first shot is widely believed to have been fired from Morris Island.

[CLena88]

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/sumter.htm


First shot came from the Confederate ship.

[barbedwiresmile]

Originally Posted by edrobert

I find it amazing that so many can stand up and say that are proud patriots of the United States of America while at the same time flying the Confederate Flag which represents a time when the Southern States did not want to be part of the USA. I've always felt it was unpatriotic.

That's because you don't understand it, and the history you were taught is the federal government's history.

A proud patriot of These United States and the Constitution would understand enough history to know that the takeover of These United States by the federal government over Lincoln simply created the federal state known as The United States, and subjected all Americans to it's rapacious, predatory ways of confiscatory taxation and subversion of the Constitution.

The "American flag" is the flag of the federal state. If anything, the Confederate flag(s) represent a far more patriotic and Constitution-centered view than the stars and bars of the federal government.

[Chad Landry]

Originally Posted by Reignman

I love ya bro, but thats not what he's saying... He's saying that Hitler took a country that was crushed and made it great again.. People in Germany had high regard for their leader, the Fuhrer. Sure, it wasn't a democracy or a republic, it was facism however, argue it or not, many people didn't mind... majority anyway. How many don't agree with half of what the Federal Government does but stay here anyway? Much akin to Nazi Germany..


I remember when Soldiers, US Soldiers were being spit on, **** on and pissed on by their countrymen... They'd go to war, paying debts they felt they had, kicking ass, taking names, burying friends, trying to put friends back together in a place called Vietnam.. Only to come home to another war. They were seen as outcasts, scumbags, derilicts, baby killers, much like the Nazi's in Germany..

Now, every soldier here gets a military discount, they're regarded highly no matter what branch, what service, what discipline.... What happened there?...


I think the change in the flag is typical revolution of beliefs. Any country, any movement, any beliefs can be changed radically overtime...

In 1987 if you didn't spend 2 cans of hairspray on your hair, dress up like a chick and play a fluorescent colored guitar, you couldn't play out in bars.
Now, if you do, you're a ******. Go figure right?

Time changes all things. ALL things. The sooner you realize that, the better your life will be.

Thanks, man. I'm intentionally being more of a simpleton than usual today.

[edrobert]

Originally Posted by glock_19guy1983

No quite the opposite. I am a proud patriot of the United States of America but I am loyal to Mississippi first and formost. Were Mississippi to try to seccede agian i would be one of the first ones on the front line to defend her. That is the same way the confederates felt. State first and formost country second.

I follow your logic, however supporting your state and flying its flag is not the same as flying any of the CSA flags.

[Hucklebarry]

Originally Posted by CLena88

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/sumter.htm


First shot came from the Confederate ship.

Captain George S. James was commander of Fort Johnson, on Morris Island. There is no mention of a confederate ship on that site.

Check here:
http://americancivilwar.com/statepic/sc/sc001.html

[CLena88]

Eh, either way, confederate forces fired first, my point still stands.

[Hucklebarry]

Originally Posted by CLena88

Eh, either way, confederate forces fired first, my point still stands.

And in that, sir, you are correct.

[Natty]

South Carolina seceded legally and peacefully. Fort Sumter was their property. The Govt of SC sent repeated messages to the US to evacuate the fort. Confederate General Beauregard also sent this message, they were ignored.

Lincoln committed treachery by sending US ships to re supply and support the fort.

This was the first act of war.

[Bren]

Originally Posted by Glock-it-to-me

The CSA flag and the Confederate Battle Flag are not the same.

And neither of those is the one commonly argued about, which is the confederate navy jack (often in the colors, but not the shape, of the battleflag). The battle flag is square with navy blue bars, while the rectangular one with lighter blue bars is the naval flag and the rectangular one with navy blue bars is, I believe, not even a real confederate flag.

[lanternlad]

Slavery was not outlawed till December 6, 1865, with the adoption of the 13th amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was signed Jan 1, 1863.

Exactly right. Lincoln didn't have the power to free slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation is tantamount to an Executive Order banning cars. It is beyond the scope of power of the Executive Branch. Lincoln issued the Proclamation to throw a wrench into the South's economy, which was powered by free labor. It basically told slaves to abandon their posts and run, leaving their master's fields untended and would subsequently throw the economy into chaos.

As for the slaves themselves, Lincoln wanted to kick them out of the country.

"My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia,—to their own native land. But a moment’s reflection would convince me that whatever of high hope (as I think there is) there may be in this, in the long run, its sudden execution is impossible." October 16, 1854

The Civil War had to do with much more than slavery. There were issues of economy, of State's rights, of Federal use of power. The MAIN reason Lincoln wanted to stop the secession is that it would have put a foreign country right smack dab in the middle of America. To get from Maine to California, you'd have to cross the CSA. That is why the War was fought. If the South had seceded, the division of the country would have led to it's collapse.

[Valdrin]

Originally Posted by Bren

Speaking of confederate flag ignorance, I think the Georgia legislature drove that home better than I could. People complained about this:

So they made it this:

Basically just saying, "we think you're too dumb to get this." They were right.



For you yankees, the new Georgia flag is the entire 1861-1863 national flag of of the CSA, with a state seal added in the middle of the stars.

It makes sense. The national flag of of the CSA, has not been tarnished by white supremest hate groups, so it will not bother people. It was not the original use of the battle flag that is getting it banned, it is the fact that it has been used as the rallying flag for neo-natzis, skinheads and the KKK for the last few decades.

[The AmBASSaDEER]

Originally Posted by Bren

Speaking of confederate flag ignorance, I think the Georgia legislature drove that home better than I could. People complained about this:

So they made it this:

Basically just saying, "we think you're too dumb to get this." They were right.



For you yankees, the new Georgia flag is the entire 1861-1863 national flag of of the CSA, with a state seal added in the middle of the stars.

Yes!!! Thank you, but shhhh

[cadillacguns]

Oh boy, let me throw in my 2 cents, as a decendant of a Union Soldier who fought at Shiloh and decendant of another one who marched with Sherman through Georgia and made the Howl, I welcome the stars and bars as a symbol of "We aint going to take any more of your Bull****, and will defend what we believe in no matter what it takes". Northern born,bred, and raised (Michigan) I had grandpappy's in the 11th Michigan cavalry (Co F), 100th Indiana (Co B), and namesake (68th Ohio Co G), and I would bet all three seeing where their beloved country was headed, would wave their hats at those flying the "War of the Rebellion" as they called it, flag not just for southern rights anymore but like the Texan flag or Revolutionary flag "Don't tred on me" ...........one that stands for solidarity in action and I would fly and follow a flag like that right next to the National stars and stripes today. and I am as northern a "yankee" as it gets.