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Old 04-21-2010, 07:36   #1
MTPD
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Mass home invasion: What to do?

Down here on the TexMex border we have been experiencing numerous home invasions. Typically 3-10 BG's arrive in 1-3 vehicles armed with AR's, AK's, shotguns & pistols, are wearing police/military type clothing and SWAT type masks.

I know it's hard to believe, but we never had to deal with massive-manpower home invasions like these "back in the day", so it's beyond my expertise.

What to do?
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:25   #2
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Damn.

Move?!

How many people are in your house? You and your wife? How is she with an AR?

Dealing with a small number (2-3) of "skilled" armed invaders will ruin your day even with good rifle skills from a well covered defensive position, but 10 is going to make your day really suck.

Do you have some sort of means to know if someone is riding up to your place? I'd think tactically you'd want the heads up they were approaching. I've seen laser systems that do boundary protection around homes which are tied into the alarm system but I'm not sure what kind of expense they are - and they require a direct line of sight between each unit. Might also help to light the exterior of your house - they're not going to be as happy approaching with floodlights on them.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:30   #3
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Move?

Bend over and kiss your *ss goodbye?

Strength in numbers, firstest with the mostest, and ever vigilant awareness come to mind.

ALWAYS wear your sidearm. Carry multiple reloads.

Have at LEAST one good dog that will alert you to strangers. Better yet would be at least two good dogs trained to take down intruders. (Not such a simple thing, I know.)

Have multiple bug out plans -- it might be preferable to bug out stealthily rather than shoot it out, if you can get away.

Have at least two ways to contact neighbors and/or the local law enforcement for help. (Landline + cell phone? + maybe WiFi or microwave broadband?)

Create at least one good, fireproof saferoom that is impenetrable to small arms and has plenty of food, water from which you can monitor and communicate with the outside world.

If fight you must, create multiple hard points about your house. Consider installing bullet resistant or ballistic fibreglass sheets (they come in up to 4'x8' sheets and longer) as part of some room remodels. Pre-position multiple rifles or shotguns, preferably of the box fed variety with additional ammunition, at these hard points.

(Re-)read Col. Cooper's thoughts on home defense architecture. Create clear lanes of fire from your house. Make sure there are no "blind spots" outside your house. Maybe consider an alarm system (or two?) that alert you inside your abode to the whereabouts inside your property of bad guys. Clear bushes -- deny hiding spots etc.

Consider ways to fireproof your abodes exterior so they cannot easily burn you out. Consider a fire suppression system. Or at least have multiple fire extinguishers about.

Make sure your exterior doors cannot be simply kicked in.

If vehicles are an issue, consider something BIG like a .338 Lapua, .416 Barrett, or .50BMG rifle. On the other hand, once they arrive... perhaps you don't want to cut off their only means of escape causing them to hang around.

Install multiple CCTV cameras with recording system.

Ensure you have plenty of kevlar for yourself and your loved ones and guests.

Maybe consider always carrying a rifle with you if it is that bad.

Consider building / installing alternate methods of movement between buildings if you have multiple structures so that you don't necessarily have to walk between buildings out in the open.

Throw lots of BBQ's and invite GTers and ARFcommers.

Maybe foo gas is in order?

That's off the top of my head.

I know you prefer to shoot first and ask questions later, but maybe David might have some statistical insight that might help shape your tactics and strategy?
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:49   #4
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Down here on the TexMex border we have been experiencing numerous home invasions. Typically 3-10 BG's arrive in 1-3 vehicles armed with AR's, AK's, shotguns & pistols, are wearing police/military type clothing and SWAT type masks.
Invasions of this type are almost always gang related or dope related according to my LE friends that work the border, so the best way to prevent them would be to not get involved with gangs and drugs.

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Old 04-21-2010, 08:55   #5
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We had a pretty alarming incident in this area last week...

Five residents of various neighborhoods of the city of Chicago stalked a Chicago business owner who operated a business that is open all night (not sure what kind of business it is, but lots in Chicago are open 24/7). The victim left his business at about 6:00am. The five-man crew followed him 60 minutes home to an affluent suburb, waited a bit for him to get inside the house and, presumably, fall asleep, and then entered his home. They beat the crap out of him, stole some loot, and then led 22 police departments (including a helicopter from another state) on a foot chase. I think two were immediately apprehended. But I digress...

How do you handle that as a homeowner? Hell if I know, but it's something to think about.

---- alarms, a loud dog (I'm fortunate to have TWO dogs that bark uncontrollably if a flea farts in the next county), flood lamps, security systems. I don't know...
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:13   #6
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claymores on the front porch....
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:06   #7
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These raids happen in my county every couple of days. Last one was yesterday with 6 BG's, one apphrehended, 5 got away on foot. The head BG's photo was on the news and he looked like A REAL BAD BAD GUY!!!! A stocky/fat greasy Mex with big mustache, reminded me of some of Poncho Villa's olde time raiders photos. You know the ones, fat, dirty, sweaty killers with big mustaches, ammo belts criss-crossed across their chests and multiple guns.

Never did hear anything about gang vs gang or drugs being targeted. Not that they haven't been, but if so the news people aren't saying. Usually all the BG's get is a couple thousand in TV's, jewelery, guns, cash, etc., and maybe a vehicle.

Now I see why lots of homes out in the county down here have 3-4 pit bulls chained around their homes and bars on all the doors/windows! Plus 8' high chain link fences with concertina wire on top and electric gates!!!!
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Old 04-21-2010, 22:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
Invasions of this type are almost always gang related or dope related according to my LE friends that work the border, so the best way to prevent them would be to not get involved with gangs and drugs.
This.

The news station isn't interested in or privy to police intel reports, or the prior history of the "victims". And it takes an especially dumb victim to list amongst their missing property 100 crack rocks, 50 oxycodone tabs and a pound of grass, plus $3200 cash when talking to the police, or the news man. They also aren't interested in the update when this info is revealed two days later. But this is usually what's going on.

Lets pretend for a second that this isn't the case, and its a John Q. Taxpayer who's house is getting set upon. Lets make one thing clear up front. If your first indication of a problem is the door coming off the hinges with 10 homies rolling through, you are toast. There ain't a thing you can do that is going to save your bacon. SWAT teams use these tactics on high wisk warrants because they work, usually so well that BG's often can't make it to loaded firearms sitting on tables or tucked into couch cushions right next to them before they're covered.

Everything that helps you in this situation is in how you layer your security, and how you set the table to your advantage. The key points are layers of security that delay the BG's entry into your perimenter, and give you advanced warning that they're coming.

In the southwestern border regions, we're talking about a block fence, 6 foot tall or taller. If you can equip it with a secure gate that is alarmed if breeched, more the better.

You need dogs. Preferrably trained alert dogs. Bite dogs probably aren't an option for you, because the training required to keep up their skills is a steep order, not to mention the liability, but barking dogs are game on. If you have both outdoor dogs and indoor dogs, that's an added bonus.

You need a beefy exterior. I'd mormally add a line in here about having the landscaping trimmed back and things like that, but with the block fence, the neighbors ain't seeing anything, and in the desert southwest, the usual recommendation is 30 feet clear from the house for wildfire protection anyway. Adobe brick is great. Stucco isn't nearly as good, but still gives some added measure. Bars on the windows and doors are an option, but remember that you're far more likely to need to EXIT the house in a fire than you are to need to keep someone from breeching in. If you do bars on the windows and doors, make sure you have a reliable means of exit if your place catches fire.

Get some hardened entry points. seriously hard. As in amsec or browning vault type entry doors. if that's too over the top for you, at least get a steel jacketed entry door, preferrably one with the multi-point latches, with no glass and no side lights.

Have a centrally monitored alarm. Something that gets the calvary on their way without any actions from you in case you're overpowered or disabled.

Have a hardened interior safe room, with the same grade of exterior door as your entry points. If you can afford the construction, beef up the walls with multiple layers of plywood, concrete backer board, ballistic panels if you can afford them, etc. it will take a mountain of cheese to get something truly fireproof and rifle proof, but the more layers you can add the better. Again, make sure you can reliably get out in a fire, as easily as you can lock yourself in.

Finally, have a plan. What do you do if the alarm goes off, or the dogs go beserk. All these layers of security are designed to buy you time, but in reality they are only going to delay a dedicated attacker by a few seconds. Don't get caught waiting for the end of the next play or the next commercial break when your dogs flip out, or you may have just given back the few seconds of advantage you had.

If it comes to shooting, against 10-1 you're pretty screwed. you can give yourself your best fighting chance by forcing the BG's to stack up in long hallways or fatal funnels that can only pass a single man at a time. real cover you can fight back from is a rarity, but use some if you can. Keep the BG's backlit, at the bottom of the stairs, or the far end of the hall for your best chance. But understand, that chance still isn't good. You need to be fighting with a rifle or a shotty, not a handgun.

How likely is any of this? Not very if you stay clear of drugs and gang involvement.

How much chance does it give you? Noone knows precisely, but if they really are heart set on coming in and taking you or what you have, 10 strong, and by force not stealth, you are in deep deep doo doo.
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:47   #9
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I agree Degood, I've crashed a few doors and never were the BG's able to react in time, even with guns in the same room with them.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:03   #10
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What about a wood door? My sister has a nasty, huge wood door. It's one inch layer of oak, a 1/8 inch layer of steel, and then another one inch layer of oak. It took five guys to hold it while the builder installed it.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:54   #11
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Die bravely after having killed as many as possible. That'd be the time I reached for the rifle, and not a handgun or shotgun.

fwiw 'the rifle' basic load is 12 10 round mags of 180 grain .30-06, and the first two are AP. I bet I could collect a full set of pallbearers If I didn't dawdle...
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:32   #12
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Die bravely after having killed as many as possible. That'd be the time I reached for the rifle, and not a handgun or shotgun.
Good point. If there are five or so armed men in your home, you should probably resign yourself to the fact that if you're going to live through it, you very well may have to throw a lot of rounds in a short span of time. You're going to get the first, maybe the second, if you catch them off guard, but after that stuff's going to get pretty dicey. I guess in my case it would be a time to reach for the AR and 30rd mag.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:42   #13
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Down here on the TexMex border we have been experiencing numerous home invasions. Typically 3-10 BG's arrive in 1-3 vehicles armed with AR's, AK's, shotguns & pistols, are wearing police/military type clothing and SWAT type masks.
Given your posting history, I’d like to see some news stories or other media coverage to verify this. I’m not saying it’s never happened but not “every couple days” as you allege.
As David said, this type of thing is usually gang/drug related. Don’t invite stupid people to your house to do stupid things. If that doesn’t work, follow your own advice. Shoot first!!!
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:45   #14
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Old 04-22-2010, 15:22   #15
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Down here on the TexMex border we have been experiencing numerous home invasions. Typically 3-10 BG's arrive in 1-3 vehicles armed with AR's, AK's, shotguns & pistols, are wearing police/military type clothing and SWAT type masks.

I know it's hard to believe, but we never had to deal with massive-manpower home invasions like these "back in the day", so it's beyond my expertise.

What to do?
Alright, what did you do with the real MTPD???????????

Beyond your expertise?
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Old 04-22-2010, 15:24   #16
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Old 04-22-2010, 15:50   #17
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Quote:
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Invasions of this type are almost always gang related or dope related according to my LE friends that work the border, so the best way to prevent them would be to not get involved with gangs and drugs.
This is mostly true.

But we have seen some multiple "attackers" who are launching the Mexican style kidnap for ransom.

The good news is that if one pays typically gets the loved one back- it's purely a financial operation in which paying is what secures the loved one's safety.
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Old 04-22-2010, 19:59   #18
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Hmm. Mass home invasion?

Now where will I be when this mass home invasion starts?

Sitting here posting on Glock talk? Well there is a real good bangstick not 20 inches from me just in case.

Sitting on the crapper or in the shower? Toughie that one but I guess my assault soapbar will be my best weapon.

Eating dinner? Well if it's us by the TV, there are a few bangsticks not far.

Eating at the table and not TV, bangsticks available.

Sleeping in bed? Yep bangsticks near by.

Reloading ammo in the gunroom? Hahaha bad place to catch me.

Add alarm system and our two dogs and well, ok we do have some warning if it comes to that.

Now as for safe room. One on each side of the house (so we can run either way.) Kids are grown and gone so the house becomes a free fire zone.

We also have some very good backstops in the house (fireplace for one) and know our angles of fire.

Cell phone to.

And we can shoot to....

So basicly we are ok. Not Fort Knox, but ok.

Deaf
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Old 04-22-2010, 20:36   #19
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Home Invasion what to do??

I have 6 day and night vision cameras on the outside looking at every approach angle to the house with Motion detection on the Video Recording device. Motion on any camera gives a Door Bell chime in the house. Time to see what is going on. The cameras also have Audio on each and I can hear what is being said outside. I don't speak Spanish, but I can see folks with guns coming in. All perimeter door locks are hardened (get it at Lowes or Home Depot for Strike Bolts on the frame side). You cannot kick the door in. Alarm system is tied to Cellular not wireline. Cellsite is in my neighbors backyard. House is loaded and ready to go.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:53   #20
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This is mostly true.

But we have seen some multiple "attackers" who are launching the Mexican style kidnap for ransom.

The good news is that if one pays typically gets the loved one back- it's purely a financial operation in which paying is what secures the loved one's safety.
Paying assures nothing but rich kidnappers down here on the border.

Just yesterday the trial of several kidnappers of a local store owner here was high-lighted on the local news. They kept the money and murdered the victim in Mexico.

My advice: Don't pay unless the victim is handed over at the same time the money is paid.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:57   #21
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Alright, what did you do with the real MTPD???????????

Beyond your expertise?
Yes, I admit it, I don't know everything.

But...........when I do give advice it is educated advice. Street educated, not just book educated.
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Old 04-23-2010, 06:31   #22
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Anyone wanting to know about south TX news, search the bigger south Texas city newspaper files for HOME INVASION, BORDER VIOLENCE, MURDER, etc. Try Brownsville, McAllen, Laredo, El Paso.

This morning news on TV: 6 home invasion suspects due in court today; 3 separate drug busts = $1 million worth of pot, $740k worth of coke recovered; fleeing drug suspects used home-made 4-prong tire spikes to disable Border Patrol pursuit vehicle, 1 murder, police station grenade attack just across border, etc.

Kind of a slow day.
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Old 04-29-2010, 13:44   #23
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Die bravely after having killed as many as possible. That'd be the time I reached for the rifle, and not a handgun or shotgun.

My friends reminded me of something recently that I said some time ago.

In response to the question as to the best way to die I responded.

"Surrounded by a big pile of brass and an even bigger pile of bodies."
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Old 04-29-2010, 23:19   #24
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Beefing up a room as a safe room (as mentioned earlier) is a great idea. Layer the security to make it harder to get in, and buy you some time to be ready or go to said safe room.
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Old 04-30-2010, 00:10   #25
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