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Old 06-02-2010, 14:50   #1
matteblack
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Converting 870 Express to "Police" 870

Hello, I was hoping someone had insight on what parts I can swap out to bring my Express into the Remington Police setup. Right now I have 1) Police steel parkerized trigger plate assem. 2) swap extractors for the machined (non MIM) part. 3) Extra power springs/performance kit?

Thanks
MB
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Old 06-02-2010, 15:10   #2
TECH51
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Send a PM to aippi
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Old 06-02-2010, 15:19   #3
matteblack
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Thank you
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Old 06-02-2010, 17:37   #4
aippi
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He did and I told him forget the cast metal P trigger plate assembly. The polymer one he has is more durable and I use the polymer on all my personal 870's. For those of you that want to disagree simply go to www.aiptactical.com and click on the "Build your weapon link. Have way down that page find the "Ruger Video" link and click on that then find and watch the Ruger drop test on that page. See, I am correct. And by the way, for all you guys that think the P trigger plate is different, only the housing and one spring is differnet and all parts are the exact same as any 870 and yes there are MIM parts in the 870 police trigger plate assembly.

Save that money and stick with the better trigger plate assembly you alread have. But if you don't want to believe any of this, I sell the P trigger palte assembly for $86 and will be happy to take money from you for nothing as I am a Remington parts dealer. Not a good one, as I would make more money keeping my mouth shut.
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Old 06-02-2010, 17:45   #5
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Thanks aippi!

Since my 870 express has the factory 7 shot tube and speedfeed stock and fore end, I've decided from aippi's input that I will do two mods:

1) Replace MIM extractor with machined steel Part #F16176

2) keep polymer triggerguard but install the carrier latch spring Part #F16966

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Old 06-02-2010, 18:26   #6
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In the words of J.D. cool beans...........
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Old 06-02-2010, 20:16   #7
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I'd like to have that great looking walnut P-model furniture, if the price isn't excessive. Anyone know where to get a P stock set?
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Old 06-02-2010, 20:21   #8
ElevatedThreat
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Sorry, but you can't readily upgrade today's short-cut, Express-type Remington 870 to the same quality as a Police Magnum LE gun. Not without a lot of work.

Remington now builds its Police Magnum guns at a completely separate manufacturing facility, with more care, different parts, and a totally different staff.

Non-LE parts and non LE-trained assembly workers are forbidden to even be in the LE manufacturing facility.

Besides just several better key parts (metal vs. cheap-feeling plastic, machined vs. MIM), better internal polishing of the receiver, and better fitting/Quality Control are a big part of the difference.

Don't take my word for it -- read what Remington itself has to say about it HERE:

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/art...Pol6-30-05.pdf

Back when Remington made all its 870 guns to the old Wingmaster standards, a Remington sporting shotgun was the same as a Remington LE gun, and vice versa.

But in the current age of the much-cheapened Express, the two guns are quite different in feel and overall quality.

Trust me, if Remington could sell its cheaper sports-grade shotguns to Law Enforcement, they would. The fact that they go to the huge expense of maintaining a completely different parts line and manufacturing facility for the Law Enforcement shotgun line, tells you that the differences matter -- both to Remington and to its LE customers.

-ET
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Old 06-02-2010, 21:01   #9
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Elevated Threat - you are exactly what the Marketing guys pray for. Now explain to me why the following on the Remington 2010 part list

Express matte finish Receiver $247
Police parkerized Receiver $247
Wingmaster Blued Receiver $247

Express breech bolt $ 93
Police Breech blot $ 93

18.5" Express bead sight barrel $135
18.5" Parkerized Police bead sight barrel $101

Down load the parts list and use your head. Also the P models are not manufactured at a seperate facility. They are 870's and manufactured along with the other 870's. They are assembled in a gaged area about the size of my shop on the same floor and a few feet from where other guys are assembling the other 870's. Been there twice and seen it.

Since your post directly counters mine, I will say this, you don't know what you are talking about man and you are just repeating what you read some place. You even link to the marketing stuff they put out. I on the other hand do this for a living and only with the 870 and 11-87. Add the fact that I am trained by the manufacturer at their factory and work on these weapons most every day. Let the readers decide who know what they are talking about.

Nothing personal man, don't mean to come down on you but you posted stuff like you knew it for a fact and you are very wrong. I have to speak out when someone post stuff that is not correct.

OH, yea. There are MIM parts in the every 870 including the 870 Police dude so you are even wrong about that.
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Last edited by aippi; 06-02-2010 at 21:51..
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Old 06-02-2010, 21:09   #10
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JD has given me some great advice on my 870P and hopefully I can throw some business his way some day. He seems to have a very good reputation with people that have dealt with him. Not sure what Elevated Threats credentials are, seems adept at using google and contradicting almost everything aippi says.
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Old 06-02-2010, 21:30   #11
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X2 all that ask me about a 870 I tell them JD is the man.............
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Old 06-02-2010, 23:44   #12
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Wow. That PDF is woefully out of date. Just look at their product line and you can see that the PDF is no longer valid. ISS is long gone. Some Express models DO use the ball detent system. My 870 Express came with the short forend.

I can't speak to the accuracy of the rest, but JD already has.

Sam
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Old 06-03-2010, 18:35   #13
aippi
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Yet every time this comes up, someone paste that mess on to their reply like it is some kind of gospel.

go to any gun shop and look at the box any of the new Tactical or HD's come in. The lable will state 18" barrel. Yet Remington has not made 18" barrels for a couple years and the weapon will have an 18.5" barrel on it. They have not even changed the lables on the boxes for new fire arms so having not changed the marketing mess on their web site is of no surprise.

None of this bothers me as I know the products and know this is one of the best pump shotguns made. I have 5 personal 870's ( all built on the Express) and if I wasn't old and could have another kid I would name him Remington. But for the sake of good business practices I would expect them to keep things current as a lot of buyers only know what they read on the web site and see in the marketing mess they put out.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:47   #14
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A few weeks back I went through the Remington armorers course. The instructor did not go into too many details, but it sure sounds like JD is correct based on what I heard.

My department has some old, beat up 870s that still work just fine. I think the average person will never use/abuse one enough to make a bit if difference between the Express and P models. I would suggest more time training in the use of the shotgun and less worry about the small stuff.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:46   #15
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The alloy Police triggerplate material itself may not offer any improvement over the polymer one, but the Police version comes with a stronger sear spring, and a stronger carrier dog spring.
Those are both worth the money to me. Both could be installed as replacements in existing Express triggerplate assemblies by a competent gunsmith, if you don't want to "spring" (couldn't help it :D) for an entirely new complete assembly.
There's also a stronger mag spring that I'd switch to.

And there's the Heavy Police/Marine Hammer Spring (Part #97573) used by the Coast Guard that's an option.

My three 870s ranging from a 1960s era HP trade-in to a two-year-old PMAX have the heavier springs mentioned, Vang Comp safeties, and forged extractors.
The stronger springs give me a little more peace of mind in cycling the actions in the types of defensive situations I acquired those guns for, the forged extractor seems to be wearing better than the less dense MIM equivalents, and the oversized VC safety button pretty much OFFs itself as soon as I insert a finger in the guard. No fumbling, no real thought required.

If I had an Express model I was going to bet my life on, these would be the upgrades (along with ensuring a smooth chamber & reliable extraction) I'd do to it.

Denis
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:58   #16
matteblack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPris View Post
The alloy Police triggerplate material itself may not offer any improvement over the polymer one, but the Police version comes with a stronger sear spring, and a stronger carrier dog spring.
Those are both worth the money to me. Both could be installed as replacements in existing Express triggerplate assemblies by a competent gunsmith, if you don't want to "spring" (couldn't help it :D) for an entirely new complete assembly.
There's also a stronger mag spring that I'd switch to.

And there's the Heavy Police/Marine Hammer Spring (Part #97573) used by the Coast Guard that's an option.

My three 870s ranging from a 1960s era HP trade-in to a two-year-old PMAX have the heavier springs mentioned, Vang Comp safeties, and forged extractors.
The stronger springs give me a little more peace of mind in cycling the actions in the types of defensive situations I acquired those guns for, the forged extractor seems to be wearing better than the less dense MIM equivalents, and the oversized VC safety button pretty much OFFs itself as soon as I insert a finger in the guard. No fumbling, no real thought required.

If I had an Express model I was going to bet my life on, these would be the upgrades (along with ensuring a smooth chamber & reliable extraction) I'd do to it.

Denis
Tanks. Its my understanding that since I have the factory 7 shot tube that I therefore have the stronger mag spring. Correct anyone?
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:20   #17
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Remington stopped putting the 7-8lb sear spring in the P models a year ago. All 870 Police models come with the same sear 4-5 lb sear spring as the Express. All 870P trigger plate assemblies on the parts list also come with the 4-5 pound sear spring. Remington discoverd the 7-8 pound sear spring causing undo wear over time and thus stopped using it. There is no stronger hammer spring and every 870 comes with the same hammer spring except the Marine and that is the same strength spring but plated and does nothing to the operation of the weapon. I do not know this for a fact but have been told the plating flakes off these springs and some guys that have had this happen will not use them. Anyone having input about this flaking please jump in.

The is only one mag spring for the two and three shot Remington extension and it comes in every 870 or 11-87 that has the extension. Same spring in both the 2 and 3 shot. And yes there is a plated one in the Marine, however, it cost the exact same as the other ones, $3.40. The Hammer springs cost the same, $3.20, the Receivers cost the same, $247.00. Makes you wonder since most all the parts cost the same, why does the Marine Magunm cost so much more. Have I mentioned Marketing?

Please take no offense if I conter a post one of you guys make. If you post somthing that is incorrect, I am simply correcting it. We are not talking about opinions here, we are talking about facts and if you post an incorrect fact about an 870 then guys are getting the wrong information and I give the correct the information. I am not putting anyone down, I am simply correcting the information posted. I only post what I know to be a fact based on my training and I share that with the guys on the forum. Yet, some guys take offence and start trying to have a pissing contest with me. I don't want this, don't have time for it and it has come close to making me say the F these bolgs. But I hang in there 'cause every now and then I get an e-mail from a Remington guy saying thanks and I use these blogs for question about my other weapons as I have limited knowkedge of them, so I am paying back for all the help I got.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:58   #18
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i am not a shotgun expert, or even close. my "thing" has always been handguns; my favorites being w german sigs. i am not even close to being an expert with my sigs.... that being said... i would love to prove aippi wrong on something, ANYTHING! but the man is smart enough to only talk about what he actually knows when he is giving advice; that goes a bit past knowledge; it implies some wisdom. he has helped me with advise that saved me countless hours of research and money; later when i backtracked... yep he was absolutely right with all advise he gave me. i don't forget when a man has gone out of his way for me, and doesn't even know me....
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:11   #19
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The parts info I mentioned above came from an email this morning from my certified LE Remington gunsmith of 25 years. I'd asked for the parts differences between the Express & the LE guns, that's what came back.

Mag springs can vary from short basic four-round tubes to longer factory-installed extensions & customer-installed extensions.
My primary point there was to go with the strongest factory spring (or aftermarket equivalent) for your own individual mag tube & length, whatever that may be.
I still retain my preferences for stronger springs & forged extractors.

Aip,
Had considered doing a project with you, you seem knowledgeable & undoubtedly are, but have to say your confrontational & dogmatic style has lost interest for me.
Some of us are posting the best info we have, and your style in responding could be a little friendlier.

Denis
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Old 06-04-2010, 15:48   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPris View Post
Some of us are posting the best info we have, and your style in responding could be a little friendlier.

Denis

Wow. He's done everything but hold your (collective) hand and kiss your (collective) butt. It would seem, with the experience and training and DAILY work, that he would know what he's talking about.

He is citing their parts list and his visit to the plant, while others are citing "a guy I know."

Gotta love the web!
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