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Old 05-29-2010, 22:07   #1
EricX
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Magic recipe for Double Tap 180g?

So... fired some Double Tap through a buddies G20 and it impressed me so much I'm gonna convert my 1st gen G21 into a Longslide G20 (6" LW bbl, LW slide). Now, my buddy gave me a mag of the real stuff to christen my project when I get it built in a couple weeks but with budget restraints and being the proud owner of a Dillon 550B, I'll be reloading most everything from here on out.
I am seriously impressed by the performance of the DT 180g... imagine what an extra inch of barrel might add(?!)... but anyway, after seeing it make things explode my 9mm, 40, 357SIG & .45 only blew holes through (ok, I had to break out some .45 Supers to maintain my manhood and regain my dignity but...) I have to find out this wonderful load that hooked me on the 10mm like a crack addict to meth!
I've got a buttload of Starline brass on backorder and a mix of 180g bullets (Ranier Leadsafe, Horny XTP, Golden Saber, etc)... what load will get me close to the performance (1350 fps/728 ft. lbs. from 5"bbl) the DoubleTap puts out?
I see a few other impressive loads posted here (especially some of the 200g... whitetails beware!~) but none, at least in my limited searching, were specific to the Double Tap in performance.
I know I'm a newb on this board but can anyone help a brotha out?
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Old 05-29-2010, 22:32   #2
_The_Shadow
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EricX, Welcome to Glock Talk...

Good luck with finding the exact powder which is being used by DT, I have been on this quest for quite sometime now. It is believed to be "Commercial Only" powder not availible as canisters to handloaders.

He had posted some data here that does use canister powders, but work those loads very carefully upwards.

I have been using Blue Dot, Power Pistol, AA#7 AA#9 for many of my own loadings. If working to the upper limit you would do well to hand weigh every load or settle on something a little below for progressive powder drop use.

Good luck to you!
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Old 05-29-2010, 23:28   #3
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Thanks for the quick reply Shadow!
Good to see I'm not the only creature of the night! LOL!
Yea, I figured DT was like CorBon and had their recipe guarded like some "ancient Chinese secret".
Well, like Federal Gold Medal .308... eventually someone gonna figure it out and post it on the net!

Oh yea, just want to add... I'm getting the Lone Wolf solid top slide (& LW 6" barrel) and the beast already has a Sprinco "CorBon" recoil buffer for .45 (I can fire .45 Super's with a slight bit of slide-frame sting & +P .45's that feel like low vel practice loads) so it should be good to go on all heavy 10mm loads unless I'm missing something.

I'm "going Ten" for the energy & velocity... I have 9mm to .45 with .40 & .357SIG in between for defense & zombies but something about the Ten is like being a .357 magnum in the world of .38 special. I considered .400 CorBon, 9x25 Dillon .460 Rowland, all of em but a friend made a point to me (the same one that let me shoot his G20)... "Go to any gun store and look for 10mm... there may not be MUCH or MUCH VARIETY but it's THERE!"
You know, he was right!
Even in the darkest days of Obamamania where greedy hoarders would wait at the loading dock at Gander Mountain for the shipment of primers to come in so they could buy them all up then sell them at 500% markup on gunbroker.com to the poor bastards who didn't sit there and wait for the truck to arrive!~
There was always 10mm on the shelves... even a single box of FMJ... some stores had plenty of variety from FMJ to HP to specialty... 10mm always seems to be in stock!
I never figured it out...
I know 10mm shooters DEMAND 10mm be stocked...
Maybe 10mm shooters are more vocal but fewer in numbers than the other shooters? Also, like my bud, he does some reloading (single stage, small batches)... he's also stocked up for Armageddon!~ At least 1K onhand and 8 hicap mags he'll never use... maybe it's guys like HIM that 10mm is always on the shelf?
Anyway, that was the deciding factor in my spending more on a conversion build than a new revolver or auto!~
But hey, when I show up to the range with a 6" longslide in 10mm... yea, the turning heads are good for the ego but knowing I have at minimum 700+ ft. lbs. of energy in the hand for intruders, zombies or that damn whitetail that almost ran over me when I went out to the mailbox late night... hell, I figure the sight of the giant ***** will scare away any of the 2-legged vermin and what don't run, gets to sample what 700ft. lb. of energy can do to soft tissue & bone!~
Yea, looking for the load that exploded water-filled 2L bottles in my backyard range and caused me to dump $600 into a conversion of my old trusty G21.

Anyone with an equally impressive load is welcome to post the recipe here.

Also, any advice from RKI's on how high I can go with my setup would be appreciated!
Again, I have a 1st gen G21 that I did a lot of the usual trigger work to, Lone Wolf solid top extended slide, Lone Wolf 6" 10mm conversion barrel, all the slide parts listed on LWD except for the Lightning Titanium Striker, Sprinco "Corbon" model recoil reducer (+P)... I plan on shooting the hottest **** I can feed through it without loosing a hand, killing myself or getting burned by the muzzle blast (got a AR15 pistol for that!).

Last edited by EricX; 05-29-2010 at 23:30..
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:31   #4
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EricX wrote
Quote:
... I plan on shooting the hottest **** I can feed through it without loosing a hand, killing myself or getting burned by the muzzle blast
Just remember the long slide carries more mass with it, it exerts/imparts more energy to the frame in both directions thru the recoil spring, so keep an eye out that the frame & slide are not being battered on either end of the stroke. The stronger spring trying to control this energy has to transfer that energy to something! The slide, the recoil spring, the frame, the shooter's hand, then back to the frame...

Now for the mighty "10" ammo, keep them within reason...realistic...not saying 40S&W loads.
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:54   #5
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I too am new to this board, although I've been reloading for 25yrs. The only thing that out-rocks my G20 is my T/C Encore in .460 S&W mag! By the way Shadow, great advice on the physics of vel. and mass. I've had great success with AA9 & Power Pistol topping it off with Speer's 180gr. GDHP. That flying ashtray shoots lights out in my G20.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:16   #6
Stovetop535
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Did you chrono the loads to get the 1350 fps or is that what the box says? I dont have any of the old double tap stuff, that is the only reason I ask. I would be really suprised if it actualy chronoed that.

I have slowly been working up some stuff with 180gr montana gold jhp bullets and Longshot for the powder.

Bone Stock g20
New starline brass
Rem 2 1/2 Lg Pistol Primer
1.58 OAL
9.4 gr Longshot
Average velocity 1256
High 1274
Low 1234 (I think this bullet was a load I put in the wrong row though, cause it was the only one that was that low)
Was shooting at 750' elevation, mid 60's for the temp.

None of the newer reloading books I have list this load. Steves pages, along with some of Hogdons Published stuff I found list the max charge at 9.5 grains for longshot. The rounds I shot came out looking great, no flattened primers, smileys or obnoxious bulges. With a 6" barrel, I would imagine this load would be a good place to start.
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Old 05-30-2010, 19:27   #7
EricX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
EricX wrote

Just remember the long slide carries more mass with it, it exerts/imparts more energy to the frame in both directions thru the recoil spring, so keep an eye out that the frame & slide are not being battered on either end of the stroke. The stronger spring trying to control this energy has to transfer that energy to something! The slide, the recoil spring, the frame, the shooter's hand, then back to the frame...

Now for the mighty "10" ammo, keep them within reason...realistic...not saying 40S&W loads.
Great advice Shadow! Fortunately, I got it covered with the Sprinco recoil reducer. It's an H&K USP-type of dual spring cam system that buffers that last 10% of slide travel to prevent slide to frame contact. The only downside is it makes manual locking of the slide a PITA sometimes since the catch always seems to be in that last 10%... even worse with the Corbon models.
I've shot .45 Supers with this so I should be ok with the longslide.

Stovetop- I did get to chrono 1 round of the Double Tap using my bud's G20... unfortunately, due to a bad 9v I only got one good reading out of 5 shots. It read "1312" so like all manufacturers there might be a bit of exaggeration... then there's that testing with a longer barrel than most people use.
I figured with the 6" barrel I should get back any loss of velocity from shorter barrels and at the least, get the full manufacturers listed velocity.
Also, thanks for the load... I'll give it a try.
I'm new to reloading for pistols but the .50 Beowulf got me trained on the process and I've been doing rifle for 20-some years.
Looks like I'll set the presses and do some incremental loads starting with the one you posted.
BTW, any alternative powders? I have a local Gander Mtn. and a couple of local gunstores but you know how it goes in this day.

Last edited by EricX; 05-30-2010 at 19:28..
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Old 05-30-2010, 20:31   #8
Stovetop535
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I worked up some loads with power pistol, but did not like the feel of the gun using that powder. The recoil just didnt feel right with the heavier loads. Here are both my spreadsheets I have started for Power Pistol and Longshot. All of these loads are using Montana Gold 180gr JHP. I havent been loading 10mm very long, but I absolutely love the round and I have done as much reading and asked as many questions to people as possible.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Longshot 180 Gr Loads.pdf (135.5 KB, 60 views)
File Type: pdf Power Pistol pdf.pdf (28.2 KB, 73 views)
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Old 05-31-2010, 15:25   #9
2c5s
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New batch of DT 180 gr. Nosler jhp. Shot a 5 shot string this morning.

1. 1210
2. 1237
3. 1189
4. 1204
5. 1184
AVG. 1204

ADV. FPS 1305.

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Old 05-31-2010, 16:06   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stovetop535 View Post
I worked up some loads with power pistol, but did not like the feel of the gun using that powder. The recoil just didnt feel right with the heavier loads. Here are both my spreadsheets I have started for Power Pistol and Longshot. All of these loads are using Montana Gold 180gr JHP. I havent been loading 10mm very long, but I absolutely love the round and I have done as much reading and asked as many questions to people as possible.
Thanks for posting the data. I'm particularly interested in the Long Shot data. It is one powder that appears to be very suitable for the 10mm, but I have not worked with it yet. I'll pick up a pound one of these days and have a go.
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Old 05-31-2010, 18:18   #11
Stovetop535
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Everyone I have talked to about 10mm said longshot was a great powder to go with and fun to shoot. It really makes the gun come alive with those 1200+ fps loads. It is just plain fun to shoot. You wont regret picking up some longshot to try out. As soon as I get some more 180gr bullets, I will be making up some woods loads for my hiking here in Wyoming.
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Old 05-31-2010, 18:21   #12
Stovetop535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2c5s View Post
New batch of DT 180 gr. Nosler jhp. Shot a 5 shot string this morning.

1. 1210
2. 1237
3. 1189
4. 1204
5. 1184
AVG. 1204

ADV. FPS 1305.

Glock 20
Those are purchased loads from Double Tap? Ill gladly stick with my reloads if thats the case. What was your weather conditions/altitude using the chrono?
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Old 05-31-2010, 23:14   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stovetop535 View Post
Those are purchased loads from Double Tap? Ill gladly stick with my reloads if thats the case. What was your weather conditions/altitude using the chrono?
Brand new DT's. Alt. 450 ft asl. 68.9', 29.00, 46%h. DA was 2,390 ft.
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Old 06-02-2010, 18:31   #14
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Originally Posted by Stovetop535 View Post
Those are purchased loads from Double Tap? Ill gladly stick with my reloads if thats the case. What was your weather conditions/altitude using the chrono?
No kidding. Even a less-than-max charge of Blue Dot behind a 180 XTP is faster than that out of my G20. The DT data is not too impressive.
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Old 06-02-2010, 22:37   #15
EricX
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Man, I love this forum!
So much good info!
Thanks so much for the loads Stovetop!

Yea, that DT was a bit disappointing. I'm wondering how a 6" barrel will do. I know I'll get more velocity but how much I guess I'll have to wait and see unless someone out there has a 6" to throw up some stats off of.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:18   #16
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11.4 gr of Blue Dot, 1.26 OAL, 180 FMJ, G20 is an easy 1350 Avg load. Work up to this of course, you take all responsibility if your gun blows up. Alliant shows a max of 11 grains on their website for a 1295 fps avg., 1350 isn't that hard. Just be careful.

I recently read on a 10mm only board that a poster is flinging a 180gr bullet to 1500 and change with Power pistol. I am having my doubts. The Hornady manual lists a max of 1100 something with that powder. I bought some to see how hot I can get it and still be reliable and accurate.

Last edited by cwb; 06-03-2010 at 11:30..
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