[alfred10]

I am still debating what I want to get for grizzly bear protection. Have narrowed it down to an M1A socom, 12 gauge, or 45.70 guide gun. Who makes the most bad boy penetrator slug out there that will drop a grizzly?

How much more power will a 3 inch get over a 2.75 inch? Is it worth having one less round to have a 3 inch over 2.75? I am looking at loading them in a 20 inch shotgun. What are the top 5 penetrator slugs that will plow through bone and bears?

Like these but they look like a hollow point with less penetration.

http://www.remington.com/product-fam...ies/slugs.aspx

[JimBianchi]

45/70=405g 1330fps/1580FPE at 100yrds still doing 1050FPS/1000FPE
(Buffalo Bore)45-70 Magnum 405g (2,000fps/3,597 ft.lbs.)


12g= 1oz 1560fps/2161FPE and at 100yrd energy is 996FPE. Slugs have poor energy retention, but up close and personal, hard to beat.

(info from chuckhawks.com)

UPDATE: BB has some wicked 45/70, so does Double Tap, but the BB is crazy stuff!

[alfred10]

Which would have a better chance of penetrating a bear at under 50 yards?

[DPris]

Brenneke hardened slugs with cookie-cutter wadcutter noses are generally recognized as about the best in readily available commercial 12-gauge slug loads.
They do several in 2 3/4 & call 'em magnums. Some can be quite accurate, depending on your individual shotgun & whether or not you have decent sights.

Comparing them with a .45-70 bullet at 50 yards & less would depend on the rifle load. The standard & anemic 405-grain lower end HPs & solids would come in a distant second behind the Brennekes. Garrett's big buffalo stompers in the .45-70 may have an edge over the Brennekes.

In standard soft roundnosed Foster slugs, those are a poor choice. They deform easily on bone, they do much less tissue damage as they pass through it.

In general, a hard & heavy flat-nosed slug will be much more effective than a lighter & softer Foster type.

Inside 50 yards, I'd feel pretty good about either a Brenneke in my 870 or a Garrett in my Marlin.
Since I like leverguns, my Marlin's the one that goes into bear territory normally, but I've also toted a Remington with Remington's BuckHammers behind two buckshot shells & felt very comfortable with it.

Denis

[Vic777]

If a Grizzly is charging you ... you better be damn good with your shot placement and have a semi-auto.

[JimBianchi]

I updated my other post.

[method]

Dixie Terminators. http://www.dixieslugs.com/ Skip any of the Foster slugs. If you ever shoot a bear in defense, it'd better be a whole lot closer than 50 yards.

[a1b2c3]

I use the copper solids in a rifled 870 and they are very accurate up to 100yards. However if I were worried about a charging grizzly I would carry the M1A. Under stress of death and being eaten you can put 20rds of 308 on target quicker and more accurately with the semi-auto than a pump shotgun or lever rifle.

[MTPD]

.308 is on the light side for Grizz. Personally, I'd use a shotgun with slugs.

[DaGroaner]

Originally Posted by MTPD

.308 is on the light side for Grizz. Personally, I'd use a shotgun with slugs.

Ditto. A semi-auto with slugs.

[Navitimer]

I agree that .308 is too light for a charging grizzly, even in FMJ. I'm no bear expert, but my assumption would be that a true life or death charge scenario would occur at 25 yards or less. Given that time is obviously a factor in that scenario, I'd probably prefer a semi-auto 12 gauge with magnum slugs, and get the hardest slugs i can find. I'd also want a 44 magnum revolver or larger caliber on my strong side.

[DaGroaner]

Originally Posted by Navitimer

I agree that .308 is too light for a charging grizzly, even in FMJ. I'm no bear expert, but my assumption would be that a true life or death charge scenario would occur at 25 yards or less. Given that time is obviously a factor in that scenario, I'd probably prefer a semi-auto 12 gauge with magnum slugs, and get the hardest slugs i can find. I'd also want a 44 magnum revolver or larger caliber on my strong side.

I respect your opinion but personally I'll go with 16 rounds of Double Tap 10mm 200gr WFNGC on my hip and 30 more in my pocket.

[ScrappyDoo]

FWIW, I just got back from Dick's...they have FURTHER reduced their closeout Hornady TAP 00 BUCK personal defense, earlier this year it went from $15 a box of 5 to $7.97 ... now they're down to $6.97...redonkulous.. I have a bunch of boxes of this..

OH and I asked for plane jane slugs cause I had no slugs, i needed a few boxes for my primary and secondary locations... I got Remington Slugger 12ga. 2 3/4" 1oz slugs.. .I said cool... Instead of being $7 they were $4.49 and when I got home I realized they were RIFLED slugs... Pretty sweet deal. So check out dicks, I love loading up on shotgun shells and .22LR, and these are great deals IMHO.

[DPris]

They're pretty much all rifled slugs, in one form or another.
The "rifling" is just a construction feature to swage down in passing through chokes.
Denis

[southernshooter]

Originally Posted by MTPD

.308 is on the light side for Grizz. Personally, I'd use a shotgun with slugs.

Muzzle energy of .308 is approx 2650 fp of energy. Muzzle energy of rifled slugs approx 2100 fp, sabot slug approx 2200 fp.
I would feel pretty comfortable with my remington rifled barrel 12 ga with sabot slugs after I have seen what they can do.
To me one of the best grizzly defense guns might be a Browning BAR in .338 mag.

[Edmo01]

When a big bear is charging for an attack, historically the encounter will be close and will happen very quickly. Many different rounds may mortally wound a gizzly, but at this point you need to disable the bear to stop the attack.

The general thought is to penetrate through to the spine, or penetrate and break one or both front shoulders. You need to physically stop the bear. Grizzlies can be BIG so bone crushing penetration needs to be big also. I have a short-barreled Marlin lever in 45-70 I carried for this purpose when stationed in Alaska, and I thank God I never had to use it to stop an attack. The Marlin "guide gun" is about as light weight of a long arm as I found while maintaining enough penetration and energy to stop a bear.

Think of the rifle/shotgun you pick and then think about the burden of carrying it with you every moment during a week in the bush. Long and heavy lose out very quickly, especially if it is a fishing trip requiring you to carry fishing equipment.

Could a .308 Win or other smaller round work? Yes... Would I carry a .308 when there are better rounds for the job? No. The .308 is a great round and I have several rifles chambered in it, however I would not pick it for a round to disable a charging grizzly. Many of the guides and expert hunters I talked with in Alaska will tell you the general "minimum" for hunting grizzlies is a .300 Win Mag and some will not take you hunting without at least a .338 Win Mag.

So my vote is a rifle chambered in 45-70 or as a second option a 12 gauge with slugs.

Edmo

[byf43]

Brenneke slugs are hard and heavy-hitting.

If "I" were to go into Griz country and have my choice of arm and ammo, in first place by quite a margin would be a 100% reliable Remington 870 stoked with Brenneke slugs.
One in the chamber and the extended magazine full.

Second choice - Marlin 1895G "Guide Gun" with Buffalo Bore or Garrett solids.
Again, one in the chamber, and the magazine full.

IF Griz charges, you'll realistically have a couple of seconds (tops) to get off as many rounds as you can to STOP the mauling you'll receive, and the meal that you are about to become.

(Turning on the sarcasm light) - Make sure your Will is up-to-date and that your insurance is paid up.
(Sarcasm light 'off'.)

[DPris]

Saboted bullets are generally constructed for relatively thin-skinned game in hunting applications.
Your choice, but in most bear situations you'd probably be better off with a hard solid slug that'll penetrate deeper without substantial expansion.
The saboted "slugs" generally are not slugs, by strict interpretation, and depending on the bullet construction may expand further & penetrate less.
You have both skin and fatty tissue to go through in getting to vital organs, if you're not able to take out a frontal support bone structure.
Denis

[method]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

Watch this video if you haven't already seen it, and consider how useful more than two rounds of anything would be.

[ScrappyDoo]

Hey man I'm just trying to say, regardless of caliber wars / brand preferences etc. ... Dick's has awesome deals right now on Hornady TAP 00 Buck personal defense and Remington Slugger rifled slugs .... so if you're in the area just buy em.

[Faulkner]

Hummm, seems the concern for charging grizzlies has become epidemic lately.

[Jay S.]

Originally Posted by method

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

Watch this video if you haven't already seen it, and consider how useful more than two rounds of anything would be.

Damn that happened fast! I would have repelled the bear with the smell of crap filled waders.