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Old 06-13-2010, 23:01   #1
CORDY
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What trigger kit for my 34?

hi everyone, i have a glock 34 that i shoot in uspsa production class at my local club. i really dont like the trigger on it so i want to put in a trigger kit from vanek custom or glock workx. which one would be a better choice? iam not worrying about it being production legal since our club doesnt look at our guns. i have put a lone wolff 3.5 trigger bar in the 34 and it has made it feel alittle better i still want a 2 pound or so trigger pull and to reduce the travel of the trigger. so which one would be the best trigger kit to buy? i have been looking at the glockworkx volcrum or the vanek super, grandmaster or ultimate kit. anyone have any experience with any of these.

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Old 06-13-2010, 23:29   #2
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I have a Vanek Classic trigger kit which I use in my G34 for competition and very happy with it. I like the smooth crisp trigger break. Vanek Classic Trigger kits are legal for divisions which do not allow external modifications. I havent tried Glockworx so cant say anything about it. Just my $0.02. Check this link

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1040827
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Old 06-13-2010, 23:34   #3
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iam not worrying about it being production legal since our club doesnt look at our guns.
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Old 06-13-2010, 23:53   #4
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CORDY, always stick to what is legal.
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:41   #5
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I use the one that came with the gun.

The best Glock shooter in the universe does too.
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:37   #6
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get the Glocktriggers.com Challenger it is legal and has a very good feel and break to it , i am running it in my 34 and couldnt be happier ..

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Old 06-14-2010, 11:26   #7
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i ended up ordering the vanek classic kit for my g34, its production legal. i do agree that some of the best shooters shoot the stock trigger group but there good enough to overcome the factory glock trigger. i need the help of a trigger kit lol.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:35   #8
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I'm glad you went with something that is legal for the division you plan on using it in.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:40   #9
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I use the one that came with the gun.

The best Glock shooter in the universe does too.
This point of view is simply ridiculous. The whole "it's not the gun, it's the shooter" philosophy.

Read Brian Enos' book, considered to be one of the top shooters around (not so much TODAY, but his info is still considered relevant). His book is acclaimed by many to be *the* book to read. He has a section on equipment. He says something to the affect of "and get a good trigger job, something in the 2 pound pull range".

Note, he does NOT say, "run out and install a 5+ pound crappy trigger with a long sloppy pull and excessive over travel".

Yes, a top shooter can excel with a stock Glock trigger, but those who "frown" on trying to improve the stock Glock trigger are simply ridiculous. That trigger was designed for a combat environment as opposed to a competition environment.

If there was ANY "value" to learning to shoot with a heavier-than-needed trigger pull, I'd suspect Brian might have addressed that situation. No... he said get a competition tuned trigger.

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Old 06-14-2010, 14:57   #10
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Old 06-14-2010, 17:14   #11
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This point of view is simply ridiculous. The whole "it's not the gun, it's the shooter" philosophy.

Read Brian Enos' book, considered to be one of the top shooters around (not so much TODAY, but his info is still considered relevant). His book is acclaimed by many to be *the* book to read. He has a section on equipment. He says something to the affect of "and get a good trigger job, something in the 2 pound pull range".

Note, he does NOT say, "run out and install a 5+ pound crappy trigger with a long sloppy pull and excessive over travel".

Yes, a top shooter can excel with a stock Glock trigger, but those who "frown" on trying to improve the stock Glock trigger are simply ridiculous. That trigger was designed for a combat environment as opposed to a competition environment.

If there was ANY "value" to learning to shoot with a heavier-than-needed trigger pull, I'd suspect Brian might have addressed that situation. No... he said get a competition tuned trigger.

No - Your point of view is simply ridiculous.

I read Mr. Enos' book - twice. You must have only read one small part. The vast majority of his book is on the mental aspects of the game. Why don't you email him and ask him what is more important and will improve your shooting more - Getting the basics down, then getting the mental aspects down OR improving a 3.5/4.5 Glock trigger. Let us know what he says....

(You also have to keep in mind that his book was originally written when most competitive shooters were using highly customized 1911s - because "customized from the factory" 1911s didn't exist then.)

There are a BUNCH of higher level (expert and above) competitive shooters who tried DIY modifications, purchased various kits and so forth - and went back to a stock (G34) trigger set up. I guess they are (in your view) "simply ridiculous."

I'm IDPA expert, getting pretty close to master, and mine is box stock. I know two local guys who made IDPA master with a Glock - stock trigger. I guess they are (in your view) "simply ridiculous."

Dave Sevigney shoots a stock Glock trigger - he sometimes does not win - but that is an exception. I guess he is (in your view) "simply ridiculous."

A lot of people want to "buy" being a better shooter by buying equipment - most would get more benefit from spending the money on ammunition and range time. Virtually every high level IDPA shooter will tell you that it is not the equipment - it is the shooter.

The OP has a G34. Unless it a LE specification 34 - THAT trigger group was not designed for a combat environment - at least that's what Allan Ramsey tells me.

Oh, and by the way - why don't you find out the average trigger weight of a Jerry Miculek revolver and let us know what you find out....


======

In reality, NEITHER point of view is simply ridiculous. If you earned the money, spend it as you wish. If a 2# trigger makes you happy get it, just realize that it is probably not going to make you a better shooter. There is a big difference in going from a 8-12# trigger to a ~5# trigger, than going from a #5 to a #2 trigger.
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Old 06-14-2010, 18:58   #12
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No - Your point of view is simply ridiculous.

I read Mr. Enos' book - twice. You must have only read one small part. The vast majority of his book is on the mental aspects of the game. Why don't you email him and ask him what is more important and will improve your shooting more - Getting the basics down, then getting the mental aspects down OR improving a 3.5/4.5 Glock trigger. Let us know what he says....

(You also have to keep in mind that his book was originally written when most competitive shooters were using highly customized 1911s - because "customized from the factory" 1911s didn't exist then.)

There are a BUNCH of higher level (expert and above) competitive shooters who tried DIY modifications, purchased various kits and so forth - and went back to a stock (G34) trigger set up. I guess they are (in your view) "simply ridiculous."

I'm IDPA expert, getting pretty close to master, and mine is box stock. I know two local guys who made IDPA master with a Glock - stock trigger. I guess they are (in your view) "simply ridiculous."

Dave Sevigney shoots a stock Glock trigger - he sometimes does not win - but that is an exception. I guess he is (in your view) "simply ridiculous."

A lot of people want to "buy" being a better shooter by buying equipment - most would get more benefit from spending the money on ammunition and range time. Virtually every high level IDPA shooter will tell you that it is not the equipment - it is the shooter.

The OP has a G34. Unless it a LE specification 34 - THAT trigger group was not designed for a combat environment - at least that's what Allan Ramsey tells me.

Oh, and by the way - why don't you find out the average trigger weight of a Jerry Miculek revolver and let us know what you find out....


======

In reality, NEITHER point of view is simply ridiculous. If you earned the money, spend it as you wish. If a 2# trigger makes you happy get it, just realize that it is probably not going to make you a better shooter. There is a big difference in going from a 8-12# trigger to a ~5# trigger, than going from a #5 to a #2 trigger.
For experts who tried DIY trigger kits and then decided to go back to stock, no I don't think they are "simply ridiculous". They tried it, decided they didn't like it, and went back. Nor do I think David Sevigny is ridiculous. Every point you made in THAT regard is asinine, as you're WAY off the mark. It's the ATTITUDE of folks like you that trying a smoother, and easier-to-actuate trigger is a bad thing somehow that I find "simply ridiculous".

Your point of Enos writing his book during a time of customized 1911's falls flat. If he had thought that it was beneficial to learn with a heavy trigger was good, don't you think he'd have said that? "Hey, don't rush out and get a trigger job, just spend LOTS of time learning with your crappy trigger, THEN go and get a trigger job". No. His advice was to non-experts, and he stresses that he thinks triggers WITH SHORT TRAVEL (he calls it total overall movement) are best as it eliminates possibilities of mistakes creeping in, etc. He also says that when the shooter reaches a high level, that they'll WANT a lighter trigger. He has a complete subsection on triggers, and it's obvious he believes that short travel and a light pull will make it EASIER TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS than anything else. Makes perfect sense to me? Not instantaneous success, but easier to achieve success.

1) I never said shooting with the stock trigger is "bad", or that there aren't any experts who don't do it. If that's what pleases you, fine. I have no problems with that.
2) My point was that the ATTITUDE of so many Glock Talkers such as yourself have nothing useful to add when someone posts a thread about triggers, but instead act as if the poster wants to BUY instant success. No, a light trigger won't lead to instant success, but can pave way to good success quicker, I'd warranty.
3) It's simple really... a light trigger with short travel is GOING to help someone shoot better, WITH PRACTICE. It won't be an instant thing, but it WILL HELP. As opposed to having to pull harder with the finger, the gun is going to want to wobble. Yes, you can get there by staying stock, but it will be a longer and more difficult process. Why? Makes no sense.

I'm sure Tiger Woods could clean the clocks of most anybody in the world playing with 100 year old equipment. Does he? Hell no! Even though he's *the* best player in the world, you can bet your bottom dollar he LEADS the technology drive. Better ball? He'll try it. Better driver? Hell yeah. Why not?

No, it's not the fact that you shoot with a stock trigger that makes you "simply ridiculous". It's that attitude that for someone to choose NOT TO USE THE STOCK TRIGGER is defective makes you simply ridiculous.
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Old 06-14-2010, 20:14   #13
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ron 59 your 100% right. my g34 is the LE model and the trigger is terrible in my eyes. if i can improve on it why not do it? iam not trying to buy a trigger and think iam going to become a grand master, iam buying it because i like a nice trigger and thats it. PEC MEMPHIS why are you getting all upset? ( I ) want a better trigger, you dont have to have one thats the great thing about these guns is that you can choose to modify to your liking or not. there is no reason to get all huffy about this subject. ( I ) WANT A NICE TRIGGER THATS WHY I PUT THIS TREAD ON HERE. i dont think for one minute that iam going to be better with this trigger kit or it takes place of training but if i train with a nice trigger that takes one element out of the equation. iam not a dave sevigny or jerry miculek i just shoot for fun one to twice a month in uspsa and thats it. your opinion is yours but dont knock someone around because they want nicer parts. i bet you dont go to the matches and yell this point to the open shooters.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:44   #14
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Once again I never said it would make me better I said I like a smoother trigger pull nothing more.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:47   #15
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I guess neither of you read my last paragraph. Neither argument is "simply ridiculous".

I said that I use the stock Glock trigger and Dave Sevigney uses the stock trigger. That's when Ron calls my point of view "simply ridiculous". Ron started the rash over generalization. My response was to show how "ridiculous" Ron's statement was - read the last paragraph.

Here's what I see, and a lot of very good shooters see, a lot of people try to "buy" being a being a better shooter. A lot of them never make it out of "C" or MM/SS.

I guy I have shot with has all of the DIY modifications - a match grade slide lock, blah blah blah, he goes on and on about how much he knows about the Glock - more than the factory - more than armorers - because he bought a book. He claims to be a master - but has never even come close to beating me in a match.

I also noted that if your 34 is a LE 34 - sure it is a reasonable modification to move to something closer to a typical 34.

Most upper level shooters will still tell you it is (mostly 90%+?) the shooter not the gun.

Your Tiger Woods analogy falls flat. Do you think I could use his clubs and play golf better than I do with an off-the-shelf set of middle of the line clubs? No - and I have no illusions that it will. Tiger is playing at a level where the extra 1% can make the difference - and his skill level is where the extra 1% can be extracted. Upper level shooters are not "overcoming" the stock G34 trigger - most have found that it works better.

And I still stand by my request to call Mr. Enos and ask him the question I stated earlier...
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:23   #16
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I guess neither of you read my last paragraph. Neither argument is "simply ridiculous".

I said that I use the stock Glock trigger and Dave Sevigney uses the stock trigger. That's when Ron calls my point of view "simply ridiculous". Ron started the rash over generalization. My response was to show how "ridiculous" Ron's statement was - read the last paragraph.

Here's what I see, and a lot of very good shooters see, a lot of people try to "buy" being a being a better shooter. A lot of them never make it out of "C" or MM/SS.

I guy I have shot with has all of the DIY modifications - a match grade slide lock, blah blah blah, he goes on and on about how much he knows about the Glock - more than the factory - more than armorers - because he bought a book. He claims to be a master - but has never even come close to beating me in a match.

I also noted that if your 34 is a LE 34 - sure it is a reasonable modification to move to something closer to a typical 34.

Most upper level shooters will still tell you it is (mostly 90%+?) the shooter not the gun.

Your Tiger Woods analogy falls flat. Do you think I could use his clubs and play golf better than I do with an off-the-shelf set of middle of the line clubs? No - and I have no illusions that it will. Tiger is playing at a level where the extra 1% can make the difference - and his skill level is where the extra 1% can be extracted. Upper level shooters are not "overcoming" the stock G34 trigger - most have found that it works better.

And I still stand by my request to call Mr. Enos and ask him the question I stated earlier...
The more we discuss this, I think the closer we are coming to agreeing, with a few small differences.

Definitely the shooter, not the gun. Going out and buying a different trigger isn't going to make you a expert/master in IDPA, or a "B" or better in IPSC.

My guess is the guy who "bought the book" isn't beating you, is because he isn't spending the time you are practicing. You will NOT get to expert (or above), or "B" (or above) without 20,000 rounds per year practice (or so), regardless of the trigger your gun has.

PEC, how many rounds do you go through a year? I'm going to be very close to 20,000 for the past year, I can see it being closer to 25,000 this next year. I only started shooting last year, easily made SS in IDPA, and have taken a 3rd at a GSSF match. Assuming I continue my practice regimen over the next 12 months as I have the past 12 months, I can guarantee being Expert in IDPA a year from now.

So to sum up... "buying" a trigger isn't going to make you a better shooter. What I don't understand is your refusal to acknowledge that a person can improve FASTER with an improved trigger? It makes sense to me.

Here's the place where we still disagree. You keep putting words in my mouth, that :
Quote:
that I use the stock Glock trigger and Dave Sevigney uses the stock trigger. That's when Ron calls my point of view "simply ridiculous".
No. Your (and David's) use of the stock trigger is NOT simply ridiculous. But your viewpoint that someone not wanting to go through the OBVIOUSLY MORE DIFFICULT LEARNING CURVE of shooting well with a stock trigger over something with a lighter break and shorter travel could (with the same amount of practice) achieve... that is what is simply ridiculous. For someone fairly new to shooting... shooting 20,000 rounds with a light trigger and shorter pull, you should be able to achieve a higher level of success than doing the same thing with a much heavier trigger.

Period.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:38   #17
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I read the last paragraph and it states Just realize it probley won't make me a better shooter and I never said it would I said I like a smoother trigger. Most of the shooters out there would take a better trigger that's why alot of people like the 1911 the trigger is nice and I know there are other reasons but you can't argue there triggers are good for the most part. I had a xdm 9 and I didn't have a problem with the trigger but the glock I do that's why iam upgrading it.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:46   #18
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Also I put a good set of metal sights on it because I didn't like the plastic ones. Do u also think that is a not needed modification?
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:40   #19
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Cordy -

I never said anything about not modifying/changing sights. I know a (very) few shooters who prefer the Glock style sight. Most better shooters do not. Allan Ramsey notes that the plastic sights need to be changed on anything but a "shoot in a stall" range gun.

This is about the only modification that Dave Sevigney makes to to his gun for SSP, and many other divisions. Sure - change the sights - for a lot of shooters it will improve your scores. For a novice class shooter - it may not help much. I'm not saying that OEM is always best. Your skill level does not have to very high to extract the advantage/personalization of better sights.

If you are going for the modified trigger, Charlie Vanek makes a good one. It performed as expected for the people I know who have one. Although all but one of the better shooters has gone back to OEM or changed platforms.

Ron,

I would agree that if you had a 8#, 10# or 12#+ trigger that the learning curve will be longer and more difficult. In my opinion, and many knowledgeable competitive shooters and trainers, there is just not much difference in effort/fatigue between a 3.5/4.5# trigger and a 2.0/2.5# trigger.

In fact, when shooting fast, moving and/or making transitions - some people have problems in trigger prep with the lighter trigger, causing the shot to break a smidge (to a lot) prematurely. There is a reason many higher level shooters "come back" to the 3.5/4.5# OEM when competing with the Glock platform. For many, many (but not all) shooters - it ends up working better.

Making a long shot (25 -30 yards) while static - the lighter trigger might be an advantage.

For action pistol shooting sports, going to the lighter trigger (from a <=5#) will not necessarily "flatten" the learning curve. What will flatten the learning curve is knowing how to manipulate the trigger to reset, knowing where the "wall" is and therefore knowing when the shot will break. Practice alone will not make you better - practice with knowledge and a goal will make you better - and will make more difference in outcome than minor equipment modifications.

As an aside - My skill level is fairly high for the amount of effort I've put into competitive shooting. I shoot about 3,500 to 4,000 rounds a year - I guess I'm pretty fortunate in that respect.

If you still disagree - we will have to just have to disagree on a point closer to where we started. In reality there are no absolutes about what is "best" from one person to the next - as our abilities, skills, perceptions and the way we learn are unique to each individual.

My over-reaction was in response to (what I perceived) as your over-reaction to my comment. Within reasonable equipment - it is the shooter - not the equipment.
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:53   #20
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Ron,

If you still disagree - we will have to just have to disagree on a point closer to where we started. In reality there are no absolutes about what is "best" from one person to the next - as our abilities, skills, perceptions and the way we learn are unique to each individual.

My over-reaction was in response to (what I perceived) as your over-reaction to my comment. Within reasonable equipment - it is the shooter - not the equipment.
Fair enough. And I appreciate your continuing the dialog civilly. I may have to take another shot (no pun intended) using MY stock trigger setup. I've been doing extra work on group shooting, and squeezing that first shot off *without* using the reset (I do use reset when shooting controlled pairs in competition) trying to get used to it and already seeing some improvement.

One last question... do you do ANYTHING to the stock connector? Not even a little polishing? The metal that is made of is almost like a cheap "pot" metal, and just seems to have undue friction and drags unnecessarily.

Just curious if you "stock" guys do anything at all to the gun, or just change sights and go? No recoil or striker spring changes, just sights?
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