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Old 07-01-2010, 22:30   #1
SNoB
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Similarities between carbine training and paintball

So I have spent a few years playing competitive speed ball (paintball), working up to what some would call an "amateur" level. Playing in tournaments, practicing every weekend and sometimes during the week.

Now that I have been working on my shooting and also starting to train to be a proficient shooter on the AR platform I have noticed a lot of similarities. Let me start by saying that I know fighting a gun fight like a round of paintball will get me or an innocent killed. Training for one is not a substitute for the other.

Here are a few things I have noticed are being emphasized by training courses around the country that I havent seen in the past. This VTAC video of the "Highsmith" drill shows the main ones I have found.

-Off hand shooting.
In paintball one of the first things they always teach new players is to shoot with the off hand to expose as little of the body as possible when shooting around bunkers. I have seen this video and a few others touch on the same principle for the same reason. Only difference is in paintball you train to shoot with your off hand at a full sprint and transition without using any sort of safety.

-Keeping the gun up while moving
In paintball you should always have your gun up, aimed where you believe someone from the other team is or is likely to be. I have seen this in some training videos and tips. Its a simple reason, it takes a lot longer to raise the weapon, aim and fire than to just aim and fire.

-Being ready to move rapidly from cover.
In this video l the instructor points out the importance of having the inside knee down when being down on one knee behind cover. This allows you to rapidly move out of cover to take a shot, or to move. This principle has been used in paintball for a long time. Both for allowing you to sprint to the next cover when you see an opening and to "wrap". Which is when you lean out and around the cover you are behind to shoot a different angle on another opponent.

-Shooting and moving
Lots of big hollywood gunfights happen with people running at full speed, managing to shoot other people running at full speed. Makes for some great action movies. I see it being trained on in tactical courses, never at the speed that paintball players do it mind you, but it is a very important skill.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:05   #2
Puppy
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For training purposes airsoft is much better suited, not only are the weapons exact replica's of the originals (same controls, same weight, same sights, etc) you also have to reload them, in the exact same manner as their real-steel counterparts.
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Old 07-05-2010, 14:31   #3
SNoB
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I sort of disagree. From what I have seen from "competitive" airsoft players they are still leaps and bounds behind the competitive paintball scene when it comes to gun handling skills and movement. Hardly any airsoft players are seen shooting off hand in rec games or moving with their weapon up. I dont think I have EVER seen an airsoft player run and shoot with proficiency.
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Old 07-05-2010, 14:43   #4
Atomic Punk
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i like the airsoft replica part. but whats the usable distance on those vs paintball?
another thing i have thought of is besides the paint ball leaving a very obvious mark. i know it hurts to get hit. might help discourage tactics that might get you hurt more. either way its all a game and training.
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Old 07-05-2010, 15:16   #5
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I can see some of the tactics and skills crossing over but using a weapon that is similar to the one you are going to use in a dangerous situation is preferable over something you won't be using. I can use an Airsoft pistol in my backyard and practice drills all day long. Too bad I can't do that with a real pistol.
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Old 07-07-2010, 16:25   #6
Aiden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNoB View Post
I sort of disagree. From what I have seen from "competitive" airsoft players they are still leaps and bounds behind the competitive paintball scene when it comes to gun handling skills and movement. Hardly any airsoft players are seen shooting off hand in rec games or moving with their weapon up. I dont think I have EVER seen an airsoft player run and shoot with proficiency.
As an avid airsofter, I've seen all sorts of people show up at events with varying degrees of ability. Personally, I use available cover, minimize profile presented during firing, am proficient in shooting on my weak side, and able to deliver accurate fire while shooting on the move. My high school buddy on the other hand just holds down the trigger and hopefully eliminates everyone else before he's hit. It all depends on the player, and many choose to learn proper handling of their airsoft guns to give them an edge over the "run n gun" player.

Competition airsoft doesn't really exist, due to the nature of the sport, it's more along the lines of either 1. Military simulation at organized events, or 2. simple deathmatch etc suited for open play at a local field.

Airsoft is becoming very popular among the younger (my) generation, many of whom treat it like a first person shooter straight from their videogames. You'll often find a lack of basic tactics among this group, short of the time honored "spray and pray". These players are much more likely to be attending an "open play" type game at a local field. This is not to say all young players do this, merely that the stereotype has some truth.

However airsoft also has a following in the milsim community, which is attractive to people of all ages, and you'll generally find more proficient players at those types of events. This is partially due to the fact that many of them regard airsoft as a fun yet practical application of the skills they possess, be it through firearm ownership or previous training received from serving in the armed forces. The event is similar to a force on force scenario you might find on a training ground. An excellent example of this would be OP: Irene, which is a milsim event held at the Zussman Urban Combat training center at Fort Knox.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Punk View Post
i like the airsoft replica part. but whats the usable distance on those vs paintball?

Airsoft engagements at a game typically take place at distances from point blank (10ft) to 140ft. Most electric guns are capable of making shots out to 200ft. Highly upgraded airsoft sniper rifles are capable of making shots out to 300ft relatively accurately (man sized target with adjustments made for wind and movement).

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I believe airsoft has much more promise as a training aid due to the closeness in form to their real steel counterparts. With gas powered guns, it's even closer in both function and form.

Controls are 100% accurate, and weight is closely replicated. Recoil can be about the same as a .22lr pistol, depending on model of airsoft gun. At 5k rounds for 14 bucks, it does to .22lr what .22lr does to .45acp as a cheap alternative for drills.

And many drills can be carried out in a garage or basement with airsoft. Due to the ballistic properties of a plastic pellet weighing .2grams and moving at 300fps, it can penetrate cardboard and paper easily enough, but can be stopped relatively easily by say, a towel, and vacuumed up afterwards.

I even got bored one day and experimented with one of my pistols and spare 9mm brass. I could replicate malfunctions in the pistol and drill on tap-rack-bang. Due to the closeness of the dimensions of the magazines, I can practice speed reloads using an airsoft pistol, or any other kind of reload.
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