Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-10-2010, 12:35   #1
Taterhead
Counting Beans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,970
Good News!

Many of us have wondered about the future of the 200 gr XTP. Rumors have been circulating that Hornady has discontinued production. They have been very scarce for more than a year. I contacted Hornady to see what is up.

They stated that they are NOT discontinuing production. They have a planned production run at the end of this month. Deliveries to dealers/retailers should be in early August. Let's hope they make enough for all of us.
Taterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2010, 18:57   #2
_The_Shadow
Ret. Fireman
 
_The_Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeast, LoUiSiAna
Posts: 4,279
I didn't think they had given up on the 200XTP's, that is the best 10mm bullet period.
Glad to hear the news.

I drive mine to 1200fps from the S&W1006 5" barrel with Blue Dot which is over most all book published data. The load I'm using comes from a supplement which Speer put out many years ago. I also worked up some Power Pistol loads for this bad boy.
__________________
Southeast, LoUiSiAna
NRA Life Member
BASS Life Member
_The_Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2010, 19:14   #3
SDGlock23
Glockoholic
 
SDGlock23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of Forgetfulness
Posts: 7,671
I'm also glad! I for one really enjoy the 200gr XTP and luckily I still have a few hundred left.

Now only if Speer would start releasing that 200gr Gold Dot to us reloaders!
__________________
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
SDGlock23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2010, 20:57   #4
Kegs
Ol 8 fingers ;)
 
Kegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cold side of conus
Posts: 2,682
I would not have expected them to drop the 200 grainers. I suppose they are a bit heavy for the more popular shorter brother cartridge, but on the other hand, I suppose they would be preferable for suppressor use.

I also agree they are the best for 10mm. I bought a lot of these last time and have enough for my interest for now, but glad they are making another run because I know lots of you are going to buy them - and who knows - maybe I will be out by then?

Anyway, I have a bunch of blue dot, but I'm going to try 800x to push these biggies. I think it might outperform any of the others based on what I've read - and I'm going to be running a 4 1/2" bbl. + 21 # spring out of my 29 shortly. Gonna try and push over 1200 a little ways with it.
__________________
"What's the down side to 10mm again? Oh, that's right, there isn't one."" Carrier21
Kegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2010, 21:53   #5
_The_Shadow
Ret. Fireman
 
_The_Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeast, LoUiSiAna
Posts: 4,279
Kegs, its going to be a challenge and a half from the G-29 even with the 4 1/2" barrel, I'll be looking to see how you make out.
__________________
Southeast, LoUiSiAna
NRA Life Member
BASS Life Member
_The_Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2010, 18:32   #6
MalumProhibitum
Senior Member
 
MalumProhibitum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Kegs, its going to be a challenge and a half from the G-29 even with the 4 1/2" barrel, I'll be looking to see how you make out.
Why a challenge? Double Tap claims 1225 fps out of the Glock 29 with a 200 gr bullet? Are they lying? They also claim it is a safe load.



http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...products_id=39

Quote:
10mm 200gr FMJ-FP 50rds. $41.00



Click to enlarge
When penetration is key, two holes bleed better than one! Entrance and exit hole! This is an excellent load for woods protection.

Caliber : 10mm

Bullet : 200gr FMJ / FP

Ballistics : 1275fps / 722 ft./lbs. - Glock 20
1088fps / 526 ft lbs 100yds Glock 20
Glock 29 - 1225fps

Box of 50rds.
__________________
I don't mean to be condescending (which means to talk down to) . . .
MalumProhibitum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2010, 23:14   #7
Aloxite
Group W Bench
 
Aloxite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 104
I guess the only way to find out if DoubleTaps velocity figures are correct is to crono some. We've seen more than a few reports that suggest that the ammo they are selling today is not living up to their claims. Another factor is that DoubleTap was testing at 6000 ft ASL. So it would be a bit faster than lower elevations.

Also, just because DoubleTap can safely get to those velocities doesn't mean that a reloader can do the same. We don't have the benefit of pressure testing equipment. If we try to achieve the same velocities we could easily find our loads over pressure, because we don't have a definite way of testing them.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But don't start with a velocity number that may or may not be true and chase it. Work up each load and get the most you can out of it.
Aloxite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 05:57   #8
MalumProhibitum
Senior Member
 
MalumProhibitum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloxite View Post
I guess the only way to find out if DoubleTaps velocity figures are correct is to crono some. We've seen more than a few reports that suggest that the ammo they are selling today is not living up to their claims.
Hmmm . . . marketing . . . false advertising. Can anybody report firsthand experience using a cronograph?

I need to get one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloxite View Post
Another factor is that DoubleTap was testing at 6000 ft ASL. So it would be a bit faster than lower elevations.
Stupid noob question, but how much difference does that make?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloxite View Post
Also, just because DoubleTap can safely get to those velocities doesn't mean that a reloader can do the same. We don't have the benefit of pressure testing equipment. If we try to achieve the same velocities we could easily find our loads over pressure, because we don't have a definite way of testing them.

I'm not saying it can't be done. But don't start with a velocity number that may or may not be true and chase it. Work up each load and get the most you can out of it.
Good points. I guess I just assumed if a commercial vendor can safely do it, then it must be easily doable.
__________________
I don't mean to be condescending (which means to talk down to) . . .
MalumProhibitum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 09:17   #9
Kegs
Ol 8 fingers ;)
 
Kegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cold side of conus
Posts: 2,682
Guys,

I now have a KKM barrel - it's 4.55" in length. I shot (6) double tap 200gr. Montana gold rounds through it the other day to test it before I had the Wolff 21# spring set installed.

My initial sub sample of a test showed the barrel shoots with very good precision - accuracy with the d.t. loads were @ the same point of impact as my stock Glock barrel and it seems to load the D.T. cartridges without a hitch. I still have a lot to test though, since this lot of D.T. cartridges were loaded to a shorter COAL than I load mine to (1.24" vs. 1.26" respectively).

I installed the Wolff 21# springs and immediately I could tell a difference when putting the slide together and then racking it - definitely more resistance there. That's a good thing - because I think the slide was being pushed beyond the resistance of the stock spring using most loads I have shot out of this gun so far. The stock spring is made for sissy loads (as many of us have expected). I still haven't tested this rig with the new springs yet, but I expect it to perform superior to the stock setup.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I am going to attempt to get 200gr. XTPs flying at 1225 fps avg. muzzle velocity using 800x - and these will be "+p, +p+, or +p++" (that is if there was such a category) loads - much of these safely within the "nuclear" category. I have everything I need here right now except a chronometer, which I hope to borrow or rent from someone soon.

So far, I have loaded 50 rounds of 200 xtps using 800x; 10 each @ 7.4, 7.6, 7.8, 8,0, and 8.2. Today I will be loading at least 50 more; 10 each @ 8.4, 8.6, 8.8, 9,0, 9.2, and then 40 more; 10 each @ 9.4, 9.6, 9.8, and 10.0 grains. I am using CCI 350 magnum primers and new top brass (Scharch) cases.

Based on what I have read regarding others experiences, 10gr. is about as far as I want to push these bullets. - Of course, I won't know the results until I see how they work.

As some of you are aware, IMR's max load with XTPs and 800x powder is listed at 7.8 grains.

As some of you may expect, I am hand weighing the powder one cartridge at a time. (this takes a long time).

My plan is to record measurements of the following:

Velocity (7+ samples of each loading)
Precision (7+ samples of each loading) - (@ 50' using OSU 50' slow fire pistol targets based on the NRA comp. targets)
Penetration and expansion (3+ samples of each loading) using milk jugs as the medium (cheapest and I have been saving these up for a few years in large garbage sacks.)

I will be inspecting the cases and primers carefully after each relay before moving onto the next.

I will also be noting how far the brass flies on each relay. (using a giant tarp for this)

I will also be noting weight retention of the bullets.

The purpose of this experiment is to develop a maximum load for hunting big game with this compact, fully concealable pistol.

Also: It is my understanding that double tap rounds usually do not replicate the advertised velocity listed on the company's boxes. I have not tested them personally, but for sure different climatic and environmental conditions and different firearms are going to result in different numbers.
__________________
"What's the down side to 10mm again? Oh, that's right, there isn't one."" Carrier21

Last edited by Kegs; 07-18-2010 at 09:31..
Kegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 09:26   #10
Kegs
Ol 8 fingers ;)
 
Kegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cold side of conus
Posts: 2,682
Now that I think about it, I guess it wouldn't hurt to run a few of the DT loads I have through the chronograph to see what they do. I will post the results here as soon as I have them.
__________________
"What's the down side to 10mm again? Oh, that's right, there isn't one."" Carrier21
Kegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 17:58   #11
MalumProhibitum
Senior Member
 
MalumProhibitum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegs View Post
Now that I think about it, I guess it wouldn't hurt to run a few of the DT loads I have through the chronograph to see what they do. I will post the results here as soon as I have them.
Thank you!
__________________
I don't mean to be condescending (which means to talk down to) . . .
MalumProhibitum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2010, 16:09   #12
Kegs
Ol 8 fingers ;)
 
Kegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cold side of conus
Posts: 2,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalumProhibitum View Post
Thank you!
You're welcome.

Update: All the rounds have been loaded, it's just a matter of getting a hold of a chronometer and finding the time to set up the necessary items on the range...fill h20 buckets, etc. ...and then we'll need 2-3 days of decent shooting weather.
__________________
"What's the down side to 10mm again? Oh, that's right, there isn't one."" Carrier21
Kegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 11:32   #13
Cam Cooke
Senior Member
 
Cam Cooke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 251
I still have 400 200gr XTP's sitting on the shelf and several hundred loaded with either IMR800X or Blue Dot so I am good until Hornady gets caught up...
Cam Cooke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 11:45   #14
cwb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 568
I'll keep watching this thread. 1200 FPS is not hard for a 29. I've done it with two different powders and done it safely.
cwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 11:59   #15
MalumProhibitum
Senior Member
 
MalumProhibitum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb View Post
I'll keep watching this thread. 1200 FPS is not hard for a 29. I've done it with two different powders and done it safely.
With 200 grain bullets? Please post up your recipe and the barrel you are using.
__________________
I don't mean to be condescending (which means to talk down to) . . .
MalumProhibitum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 12:05   #16
cwb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 568
200 gr Berry's flat nose, New Starline Brass. LW stock length barrel, 14.7(as I recall) grains of #9. It isn't hard. I've done it with Blue Dot as well. I'd have to look up my recipe.
Primers starting to get flat. Avg 1250 FPS. I was trying to match DT's numbers. I have run their stuff over my chrono out of the same gun, I barely avg'd 1190. The Shadow will come along shortly and tell me I must be blowing things up and I must be way overpressure. Whatever, those who say it can't be done are being interrupted by those who are doing it.
cwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 12:08   #17
cwb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 568
I will also say that I was nervous getting to this point. I backed the loads down to 14.2gr(again, I'd have to look it up to be sure) which gave me 1200 fps avg with no pressure signs(Including case stretch) with the same bullet. I know this will change using JHP's, I can still get them over 1200. I am confident enough in this load that I sell it to others without a problem.
cwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 12:11   #18
MalumProhibitum
Senior Member
 
MalumProhibitum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb View Post
I will also say that I was nervous getting to this point. I backed the loads down to 14.2gr(again, I'd have to look it up to be sure) which gave me 1200 fps avg with no pressure signs(Including case stretch) with the same bullet. I know this will change using JHP's, I can still get them over 1200. I am confident enough in this load that I sell it to others without a problem.
Please forgive me if you think this question is stupid.
What is the difference between the JHP bullets and the Berry's flat nose that would cause the JHP bullets to be slower?
__________________
I don't mean to be condescending (which means to talk down to) . . .
MalumProhibitum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 12:13   #19
cwb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 568
The JHP's seat a little deeper. I see many people, especially here, saying how they seat to 1.25. I don't understand this. Every manual I have ever found shows a seating depth of 1.26 and I have seated to 1.27 without any issues.

Last edited by cwb; 07-21-2010 at 12:14..
cwb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2010, 22:27   #20
Taterhead
Counting Beans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 2,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwb View Post
The JHP's seat a little deeper. I see many people, especially here, saying how they seat to 1.25. I don't understand this. Every manual I have ever found shows a seating depth of 1.26 and I have seated to 1.27 without any issues.
I tend to seat 180 gr and heavier at 1.26".

Probably not a too terribly important point, but Accurate Powder lists COLs of 1.25 for XTPs. Some of the SD factory stuff measures closer to 1.25" as well - probably because shorter lengths feed into a chamber easier than longer lengths.

Last edited by Taterhead; 07-21-2010 at 22:27.. Reason: typo
Taterhead is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:48.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 744
157 Members
587 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31