GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2010, 11:02   #1
stratmeister
Guitars 'n Guns
 
stratmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 130
Best lead cleaning solvent?

I'm doing a fair amount of reloading lead bullets and need a really good lead solvent because I'm working to hard and too often on cleaning my guns. What do you guys use for lead removal?

In particular I was cleaning my G17 today and it was a pain. I have a Storm Lake replacement barrel, use Precision black bullets over 4.0 gr of Bullseye, and Hoppe's #9. Shooting 100 rounds or so at a time.

Any suggestions for reducing the leading in my barrels? And lead cleaning solvents?

Thanks...
__________________
Praise the Lord and pass the AR-15 ammunition.
Florida Glockers #106
stratmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 12:05   #2
BigDog[RE]
NRA Member
 
BigDog[RE]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,499
An easy way to clean the lead out is to cut up a Copper Chore Boy pad into strips and wrap a strip around a used bore brush. That tends to take the lead right out. All I shoot through my 1911 is lead, and I run that through it every 1000 rounds or so. In between I just use a boresnake.

The main key to cleaning lead out of your barrel is simple: don't get the lead in there in the first place! A properly sized and lubricated lead bullet will leave little to no lead behind when it exits the barrel. You might want to slug your barrel and measure it. As an example, most store bought lead 45 bullets are .452". If I shoot those in my 1911, I have some leading. If I shoot a bullet that is sized at .451" I can literally shoot a 1000 of them with very little leading.


Reloading

Last edited by BigDog[RE]; 07-12-2010 at 12:06.. Reason: Added picture
BigDog[RE] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 14:47   #3
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,700
Use a slower powder or a lighter charge.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 14:56   #4
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,121
Blog Entries: 3
You shouldn't be getting leading w/ the Prec black bullets. Something is wrong there. I shoot convetional cast & lubed bullets to 1200fps in my G17 w/ LW bbl, little to no leading. Proper bullet fit helps plus I never use powders like BE or TG. Unique, WSF or WST works fine. If there is leading, ChoreBoy on a brush is as easy as it gets.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".

Last edited by fredj338; 07-12-2010 at 17:33..
fredj338 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 16:47   #5
sig2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,042
Hands down. Chore Boy!
__________________
Since Criminals will always have guns, there’s no reasonable expectation of self-defense if law-abiding citizens don’t have them, too.
sig2009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 10:47   #6
stratmeister
Guitars 'n Guns
 
stratmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
Use a slower powder or a lighter charge.
You know I wondered about my powder/charge some because I didn't expect any leading from the Precision black bullets. Could you explain to me how a slower powder will help? Lower temperature, higher pressure?

What exactly causes the leading? Melting of the end of the bullet right? How does powder selection and charge effect that?

Thanks for the help guys...

p.s. I'm using Bullseye because back in the shortage (last year) all I could get was a 5 lb. canister of BE. So I've got a bunch of it at 4 gr. per bullet...
__________________
Praise the Lord and pass the AR-15 ammunition.
Florida Glockers #106
stratmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 13:55   #7
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,642
A Glock barrel or a stainless steel barrel you can use a mixture of 50/50 vinegar and hydrogen peroxide plug the breach end and pour the mixture in the barrel for no more than 10 minutes then rinse with water. Then clean out the lead with a brass brush.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 15:55   #8
sig357fan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDog[RE] View Post
An easy way to clean the lead out is to cut up a Copper Chore Boy pad into strips and wrap a strip around a used bore brush. That tends to take the lead right out. All I shoot through my 1911 is lead, and I run that through it every 1000 rounds or so. In between I just use a boresnake.

The main key to cleaning lead out of your barrel is simple: don't get the lead in there in the first place! A properly sized and lubricated lead bullet will leave little to no lead behind when it exits the barrel. You might want to slug your barrel and measure it. As an example, most store bought lead 45 bullets are .452". If I shoot those in my 1911, I have some leading. If I shoot a bullet that is sized at .451" I can literally shoot a 1000 of them with very little leading.


Reloading
Just make sure you get the copper pad not the copper clad steel pad. Just take a magnet with and check before you buy.

sig357fan
sig357fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 16:02   #9
cysoto
Gone Shooting!
 
cysoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratmeister View Post
I'm doing a fair amount of reloading lead bullets and need a really good lead solvent because I'm working to hard and too often on cleaning my guns. What do you guys use for lead removal?

In particular I was cleaning my G17 today and it was a pain. I have a Storm Lake replacement barrel, use Precision black bullets over 4.0 gr of Bullseye, and Hoppe's #9. Shooting 100 rounds or so at a time.

Any suggestions for reducing the leading in my barrels? And lead cleaning solvents?

Thanks...
What you are seeing inside your barrel is not lead but instead the molybdenum coat that is used on the Precision bullets. The deposits you are seeing typically look more like flakes than the usual streaking that lead will leave behind.

Molybdenum is very resilient and therefore difficult to brush off but, as others have very well mentioned already, using some Chore Boy over an old bronze or brass brush will help to remove most of it.

If you were shooting bare lead bullets and you had to remove lead deposits, your best option to use for a solvent is Shooter's Choice Lead Remover. I used Hoppe's No. 9 extensively but, once I tried the Shooter's Choice product, I have never looked back. Sadly, neither of these will dissolve the moly deposits left behind by the Precision bullets.
__________________
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." — Stuart Chase
cysoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 16:06   #10
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratmeister View Post
You know I wondered about my powder/charge some because I didn't expect any leading from the Precision black bullets. Could you explain to me how a slower powder will help? Lower temperature, higher pressure?

What exactly causes the leading? Melting of the end of the bullet right? How does powder selection and charge effect that?

Thanks for the help guys...

p.s. I'm using Bullseye because back in the shortage (last year) all I could get was a 5 lb. canister of BE. So I've got a bunch of it at 4 gr. per bullet...
I can't give you a good explanation. I can't even figure out how a thermos works. How do it know? Seriously, I have red various plausible explanations, but I don't know the exact mechanism. What I do know, and you can see for yourself, is that powders have a limit regarding their burn rate and leading.

So, I used 4.0 Bullseye and got leading with 158's in 38spl. at roughly 900fps. I lowered to 3.5 and got no leading. I then tried 5.2 Unique with the same bullet, got 900fps, and no leading. Up the Unique charge with the same bullet in 357 mag, and I start to get leading. I take the same bullet and send it out of the same 357 mag at 1200 fps with 2400 and get no leading. I got similar results with 9mm and 40SW.

So, fast powders like bullseye work great at lower velocities, medium powders like Unique work for warmer loads like 38+P and near max 9mm, and slower powders like 2400 work best for magnum loads. I reference my experience with Alliant powders because that is just what I have always used. Other powders by different companies will give similar results.

What bullet weight are you using? If it is 124/125, try 3.5 Bullseye. That gives me somewhere around 950fps, no leading, good functioning in my G17, and good accuracy. 4.0 BE with the same 125 lead bullet gave me some keyholing, which means leading isn't too far behind. If it's a 115 bullet, 3.5 might not cycle the gun, so just load a few and see how it works for you.

If the lower charge of Bullseye works well for you, you can stop there and call it good. You can also get a # of a medium burner like Unique, Power Pistol, Universal, AA5 etc. You will find uses for Bullseye, it's a great powder, it just has it's limits.

Also, harder bullets have higher limits than softer bullets. My bulets are soft, yours are probably harder and will let you "get away with" higher charges of a given powder regarding leading. So, 3.8 might work with your bullets, but not with mine. Play around with it a bit and see how it does.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 16:11   #11
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by cysoto View Post
What you are seeing inside your barrel is not lead but instead the molybdenum coat that is used on the Precision bullets. The deposits you are seeing typically look more like flakes than the usual streaking that lead will leave behind.

Molybdenum is very resilient and therefore difficult to brush off but, as others have very well mentioned already, using some Chore Boy over an old bronze or brass brush will help to remove most of it.

If you were shooting bare lead bullets and you had to remove lead deposits, your best option to use for a solvent is Shooter's Choice Lead Remover. I used Hoppe's No. 9 extensively but, once I tried the Shooter's Choice product, I have never looked back. Sadly, neither of these will dissolve the moly deposits left behind by the Precision bullets.
Interesting, I haven't used moly bullets and didn't realise they could leave deposits behind. If it is moly, not lead, does it need to be cleaned out?
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 16:15   #12
WiskyT
Malcontent
 
WiskyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 11,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebob View Post
A Glock barrel or a stainless steel barrel you can use a mixture of 50/50 vinegar and hydrogen peroxide plug the breach end and pour the mixture in the barrel for no more than 10 minutes then rinse with water. Then clean out the lead with a brass brush.
I have seen barrels pitted from the 50/50 solution. They were left in longer than ten minutes. I have used it and it works great. I have found that two minutes is plenty and I would only use it when it's really needed. I think the composition of the steel has something to do with it. One of the pitted barels was stainless, so that in and of itself doesn't make it safe.
__________________
Drugs are bad because if you do drugs you're a hippie and hippies suck.
Eric Cartman


"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting."-General Curtis E. LeMay
WiskyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 16:48   #13
cysoto
Gone Shooting!
 
cysoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
Interesting, I haven't used moly bullets and didn't realise they could leave deposits behind. If it is moly, not lead, does it need to be cleaned out?
I will still clean the moly but I don't think that this sort of deposits will affect the accuracy of a pistol as much as lead deposits will.

I typically shoot bare lead bullets through my OEM Glock barrel and, if I don't clean it every 600 to 800 rounds, my accuracy decreases significantly (from a 2" group at 25 yards to 6" or larger at this same distance from a benched position).

I have used moly-coated bullets in my 1911 but I have never gone through more than 500 or 600 rounds without cleaning it so I don't know what will happen to the accuracy of the pistol past this.

Moly-coated bullets could be good alternative to bare lead bullets but they can be problematic in some barrels; including some Glock barrels.
__________________
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." — Stuart Chase
cysoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 17:33   #14
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
I have seen barrels pitted from the 50/50 solution. They were left in longer than ten minutes. I have used it and it works great. I have found that two minutes is plenty and I would only use it when it's really needed. I think the composition of the steel has something to do with it. One of the pitted barels was stainless, so that in and of itself doesn't make it safe.
That is why you only use it on Glock's and stainless barrels.
And you do not leave it in the barrel for more than 10 minutes. You also make sure you wash it off too get rid of all of the acid.
For molly coated bullets too clean the barrel you use a mixture of Krol oil and Shooters Choice.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 18:50   #15
dudel
Senior Member
 
dudel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Georgia Mountains
Posts: 4,389
Easiest thing would be to change the load to produce less leading. Maybe something slower than BE. Something harder than what you're shooting. Loading to less velocity, etc.

Easiest way to avoid cleaning lead is not to create it (or as much of it).

For really geting rid of lead, I like my Foul-out.

Last edited by dudel; 07-13-2010 at 18:50..
dudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 10:05   #16
coachg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,349
This is from the Precision Bullets website.

CLEANING YOUR BORE
Normal cleaning methods will work for our bullets, but sometimes the coating will stay in the barrel. If you cannot remove the coating with traditional cleaners—Shooter’s Choice, Breakfree, etc.—see methods below.
Stainless steel barrels only
50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar in a jar
Make a hook out of a paper clip
Remove barrel and lower into mixture with paper clip hook
Soak for 20 minutes
Remove barrel and wipe off excess with paper towel
1 pass with a bore brush
1 pass with a tight patch
Flush out under sink with water
Dry off, patch out, and oil
Carbon steel barrels
Take a “Chore Boy” stainless steel scrubbing pad
Cut off a spiral portion from the pad
Wrap around brass cleaning brush
Apply Breakfree CLP—5 or 6 passes through the bore
Patch out with favorite cleaner
Dry the bore and oil
coachg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 13:25   #17
PCJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 2,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratmeister View Post
Could you explain to me how a slower powder will help? Lower temperature, higher pressure?

What exactly causes the leading? Melting of the end of the bullet right? How does powder selection and charge effect that?
I thought I posted an explanation yesterday, but must have changed screens before submitting..... Leading can be caused by several factors, both by physical scraping and by atomization due to gas cutting.

The most common situation is probably that the lead projectile is not sized properly to the barrel. Hot gasses cut past your projectile, atomizing the surface of the bullet and depositing same on the (relatively) cold barrel. Your 9mm barrel (if it was not a Glock polygonal) would typically have a bore diameter .355". The ideal lead projectile is .001" larger than the bore diameter, so a .356" diameter projectile would be preferred. Keep in mind this is not always the case for 9mm, as the barrel diameters can vary significantly. This is why slugging the barrel is always recommended.

Another cause may be a rough barrel. This doesn't need further explanation. The remedy may be as simple as lapping the barrel.

A mismatch of powder burn rate, pressure, velocity and bullet hardness will also create barrel leading. The lead projectile must have it's base flattened (obturation) in order to seal the barrel. If the barrel is not sealed, the hot gasses will escape past the sides (gas cutting) and, as with an undersized bullet, atomize the lead and deposit it on the barrel. Typically, a hard cast bullet will not obturate with a slow burn rate powder, and a soft cast bullet with a fast burn rate powder will not be able to hold the developing pressure. Both will end up contributing to leading.

Then there is the lack of adequate lubrication. If your bullet is not properly lubed.....you get the picture.

Hope this helps.
PCJim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 14:23   #18
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 21,121
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclebob View Post
That is why you only use it on Glock's and stainless barrels.
And you do not leave it in the barrel for more than 10 minutes. You also make sure you wash it off too get rid of all of the acid.
For molly coated bullets too clean the barrel you use a mixture of Krol oil and Shooters Choice.
JB bore paste is will also work. I don't like shooting moly coated bullets. Tried the Prec Black & won't order them again once they're gone.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 17:59   #19
jpdavis423
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9
Dissolving lead

There are actually 2 methods you can use to dissolve lead. One is hazardous, toxic and probably illegal. The second is none of the above.
The first is mercury. It will dissolve lead but is very poisonous and probably illegal.

The second is Wipe Out No-Lead. I've used it for a long time and it works well. It's slow, but it chemically removes lead. If you take a de-greased bullet and drop it in No-Lead you will see it break down.

Jeff
jpdavis423 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 18:06   #20
Jason D
Silver Membership
INFRINGED!
 
Jason D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Mivonks, MI
Posts: 41,423
Mechanical is the only way to go.
Do yourself a favor, and dispense with the harsh chemicals to dissolve lead.
Bownells+Lewis lead remover=WIN
__________________
An enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the principles of liberty.

Alexander Hamilton, author of Federalist No. 1. 10/27/1787
Jason D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2010, 06:11   #21
stratmeister
Guitars 'n Guns
 
stratmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 130
Wow, thanks guys. This is exactly the type of info and suggestions I was hoping for when I posted these questions.

Some follow up info: Storm Lake stainless barrel, 115 gr. Precision bullets, and I have not slugged the barel, I guess I should learn how to do that and get what I need for proper sizing. I have seen the Lewis lead remover and it sounds like a good way to scrape the lead out, and I now have a Chore Boy in my cleaning box.

Thanks again!
__________________
Praise the Lord and pass the AR-15 ammunition.
Florida Glockers #106
stratmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2010, 08:13   #22
Three-Five-Seven
Señor Mombo
 
Three-Five-Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Tucson
Posts: 3,236
F.Y.I.

° Bore soaked with Kroll Oil, or Ed's Red (ATF & Acetone) will help to lift lead from bore.

° BoreTech makes a Moly Solvent that speeds cleaning residue.

° Hard bullets lead bores, soft bullets less so -- AT PROPER VELOCITIES.

° Most common reason for leading is INADEQUATE LUBRICANT ON BOOLITS.
__________________
That I could be wrong is an eventuality that has not escaped me. I just painted the pictures as I saw them. I do not know how to do anything else. (Saint Elmer, 1955)
Three-Five-Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:47.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,496
454 Members
1,042 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42