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Old 07-18-2010, 20:21   #1
grizman
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Need advise from the ladies.

Here is my situation. My oldest daughter turns 18 next June. In our state she is allowed to get her LTCH at that age. I must provide the pistol and ammo till she is 21. She has been shooting targets since she was big enough to hold one on her own. She has recently stated her desire to get her LTCH so she can keep one in her purse and vehicle. I trend toward the larger caliber weapons and she can shoot them slow fire. But I have to be realistic and pick one Sis can be profecient with. I have less than a year to train her to use a pistol as a fighting tool. Fast accurate and in control is the goal. My baby girl survived luekemia at 7 yrs old. Due to the meds she is petite. Sis likes my glocks so I am leaning toward a 19c for her it is a good fit in reguards to grip and control. She has shot a friends reg 19 and done well. What do you ladies think?
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Old 07-19-2010, 03:06   #2
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What does she want? Does she like the 19c?
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:00   #3
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LW, she likes my 29! It is a bit much for her for anything but slow paper punching. I have let her shoot a friend regular 19 and she controls it much better. Sis likes the size and feel of the 19 better than most other pistols we have tried. I was thinking the compesated 19 might be the best way to go.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:05   #4
sawgrass
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^^^^^What LW said.^^^^^^

There are few 17 year olds without strong opinions in my experience.
SHE has to want and like it. Rent, borrow, whatever and let her try as
many firearms as possible.
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I've learned over the years that if you don't get exactly what you want, you'll never satisfy the desire. :cool:

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Old 07-19-2010, 09:04   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawgrass View Post
^^^^^What LW said.^^^^^^

There are few 17 year olds without strong opinions in my experience.
SHE has to want and like it. Rent, borrow, whatever and let her try as
many firearms as possible.
This. And get her into a good tactical pistol or force-on-force class so she understands how different slowfire on paper targets is, compared to the real world.

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Old 07-19-2010, 13:08   #6
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Well since I am on vacation this week, i took the girls out gun shop hoping today. The oldest handled and fired many rental guns today. She narrowed it down to 3 she liked most. Glock 19 gen4, sig226 and the XD9c.
She was thinking it over when the clerk came up and started pushing the SIG hard. It was funny the kid told her he was glad to see that I had brought her to a "good" shop for some expert help. She looked at the kid and asked him about his qualifications! Are retired military? have you every been to a defensive pistol class? Have you ever had any formal training in CQB before? He answered no but I have been selling guns for a year know.
She laughed and proceeded to explain to him here father is a retired Army Ranger and has been to just about every CQB school going, has been trained by the same people that train the FBI's HRT operators! That her father has seen action from Lebanon in 83 to invasion of panama to get Noriega! That her Dad was Training Rangers and other SF operators how to win in CQB situations when he retired.
She turned to me and said "Dad I shoot the best with the Glock, You trust the Glock to protect us, so I trust your choice and also choose the Glock." We stopped at my local FFL on the way home and picked up a brand new G4 19 LE package, 4 spare mags he had in stock, a serpa holster and 1k of ammo! walked for less than $875 OTD.
Needless to say my daughter was in shock! She asked why buy it all now? I told here because I wanted her 100% ready when her LTCH came. And this gives us almost a year to get there. Then I reminded her That I was in bed sick for her birthday and didn't get her anything. So I gave her a big hug and told her happy belated birthday!
Well I better go now, I have a daughter just itchin' to go knock the new off a certain Glock! HER GLOCK!
Bye and thanks.

Last edited by grizman; 07-19-2010 at 13:10..
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Old 07-19-2010, 13:14   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizman View Post
Well since I am on vacation this week, i took the girls out gun shop hoping today. The oldest handled and fired many rental guns today. She narrowed it down to 3 she liked most. Glock 19 gen4, sig226 and the XD9c.
She was thinking it over when the clerk came up and started pushing the SIG hard. It was funny the kid told her he was glad to see that I had brought her to a "good" shop for some expert help. She looked at the kid and asked him about his qualifications! Are retired military? have you every been to a defensive pistol class? Have you ever had any formal training in CQB before? He answered no but I have been selling guns for a year know.
She laughed and proceeded to explain to him here father is a retired Army Ranger and has been to just about every CQB school going, has been trained by the same people that train the FBI's HRT operators! That her father has seen action from Lebanon in 83 to invasion of panama to get Noriega! That her Dad was Training Rangers and other SF operators how to win in CQB situations when he retired.
She turned to me and said "Dad I shoot the best with the Glock, You trust the Glock to protect us, so I trust your choice and also choose the Glock." We stopped at my local FFL on the way home and picked up a brand new G4 19 LE package, 4 spare mags he had in stock, a serpa holster and 1k of ammo! walked for less than $875 OTD.
Needless to say my daughter was in shock! She asked why buy it all now? I told here because I wanted her 100% ready when her LTCH came. And this gives us almost a year to get there. Then I reminded her That I was in bed sick for her birthday and didn't get her anything. So I gave her a big hug and told her happy belated birthday!
Well I better go now, I have a daughter just itchin' to go knock the new off a certain Glock! HER GLOCK!
Bye and thanks.
You want to adopt a thirty year old kid?
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Old 07-19-2010, 13:17   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizman View Post
"Dad I shoot the best with the Glock, You trust the Glock to protect us, so I trust your choice and also choose the Glock."

.....
You listened to the most important words of all, those of she who will use and carry the gun.

Good job, Dad!
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Old 07-19-2010, 17:30   #9
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Well, my girl made 275 rounds before she got tired. Not bad for here first hard range session. She did her own detail strip and clean afterwards too!
She shot aroud 3" at 7 yrds rapid fire, just under 2" slow. At 25yrds 4.5" rapid, 3" ish slow. Combat accurate yes but there is room for improvement and there is time.
Now I have another project, I have a rental house near the college campus she is going to. This way she doesn't do the dorm thing and can keep her firearms with her. For the past three years she has had the "pink blaster" which was a brand new 6920 colt! You guessed it it has been duracoated pink! She wants to take a carbine with her but not the pink one, she is too grown up for that now I guess!
The youngest already stepped up to claim the pink blaster and the 22lr kimber as hers.
So I just ordered a BCM lower, BCM SOCOM M4 upper,BCM ion bond BCG, Gunfighter med latch charge handle, Magpul moe pistol grip,ACS stock, Daniel Defence lite rail,YHM flip front sight/gas block, Matech rear BUIS, magpul ASAP sling mount and sling. Aimpoint M4,3x magnifier with flip to side mount. 12 pmags and another us peacekeeper RAT case. 1K of m855 spec ammo. Got close to 8k of 5.56 on hand now, but with three of us burning it up soon it'll go fast.
Mom is not going to be happy with OL' Dad! LOL! She thinks I spoil the girls! The youngest just got a new 4 wheeler 3 weeks ago to "use" on the farm. Mom just got all new flooring in the house and a new dining room set. Mom is one of the girls you know!
What has Dad gotten? To watch his family be happy! And maybe a LMT lm308mws and a 7.62 elcan specter dr 1.5x/6x on the way! It all came out of my toy money fund. I still have toy money left! I sold my racecar (25k) last fall and put all of that in the toy fund. + I put back around 200 a week in the fund just in case. This is my big splurge for the year. Other than ammo and loading supplies I am done for a while!
You can't take it with you and it won't make you happy just sitting there!

Last edited by grizman; 07-19-2010 at 17:35..
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:51   #10
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You want to adopt a thirty year old kid?
And another one, too?
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Old 07-27-2010, 23:37   #11
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And another one, too?
I'm good at sweeping the house and getting the mail from the mailbox!
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:08   #12
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Well that would require adding on or a new home. Sorry thats not in the cards at this time.LOL
Most of the parts for the new carbine came in.
[
ATTACH]201537[/ATTACH]
Still waiting on the Moe crip and ACS stock and her light, I stuck a spare TLR1 on it. Still waitong on her P mags to come in also. Had to change a few things due to backorders, I will swap out when the stuff I wanted is availible.
We were trying it out last evening. The M4 with a this light works well in the dark out to about 60 yards. The light that is coming is press pad activated and 380 lumens compared to 135 now. Should make quite the HD package.
So when daddies oldest leaves the nest in about a year she is taking a gen4 glock 19, the BCM m4 and a mossberg 590 mil spec shotgun. And she will know how to use them all!
If I can't be there to protect her I can make dang sure she can protect herself!

And in 7 Years the youngest will be packing up the same basic " Dads moving out preparedness kit" Yeah I am a bit protective!LOL
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:29   #13
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.....

Last edited by PATRICE; 08-19-2010 at 20:59..
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:19   #14
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Hhmmm....Well, I started to give reply to the initial post, but I'm glad that I refrained. Given the daughter's words carrying the father's credentials into the forum's awareness through the father's writing, I'm glad that I did not express myself.

I try never to attempt to tell someone how to do their job, especially when I become aware of purported expertise that surpasses my own.--Patrice

Hmm....Well, purported expertise? I guess that holding a Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars and 4 Purple Hearts is something every Army grunt earns then. I have never claimed to be a hero or a Rambo! I did my duty, shed my blood and put my life in harms way on more than a few occasions for everyone here. Do I need to prove anything to anyone? NO! Do I appreciate people doubting me or my service. YES!
As for my daughter not posting for herself, she has seen the treatment other young people get on these boards and won't come on here and be treated like that.
Just for clarification just what are your qualifications that lead you to doubt other peoples skills and experience?
If I misread between the lines I am sorry. Somehow I doubt I did.
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Old 08-03-2010, 14:58   #15
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Hey griz,

I can't tell you how much I wish my father had seen fit to prepare me for the real world the way you are preparing your daughter. (Let's just say that my brother was pushed to take martial arts and I was forbidden to do so, on the specific grounds that I was a girl... and therefore should have no legitimate use for fighting skills, then extrapolate to the likely result of this).

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Old 08-03-2010, 17:35   #16
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Hey griz,

I can't tell you how much I wish my father had seen fit to prepare me for the real world the way you are preparing your daughter. (Let's just say that my brother was pushed to take martial arts and I was forbidden to do so, on the specific grounds that I was a girl... and therefore should have no legitimate use for fighting skills, then extrapolate to the likely result of this).

PM sent.

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Thank you, I do believe it is a father's duty to prepare his children for the world regardless if it's a boy or girl! Both of my girls practice Tae Kwon Do. I have old non ATA Tae kwon Do training, Mudokwon Judo, kick boxing and regular boxing before the service and the armies hand to hand training all mixed in. I teach the girls the things they don't learn at the Dojo! I see no problem with teaching girls these things, I see not teaching them these things a problem.
It's also a man's duty to protect women and children even if it means he has to put his life in jeopardy to do so!
For my family I would lay down my life to protect them without fear, regret or hesitation. Sounds hokey maybe, but it is who I am! It is what I am! Like it or leave it! Agree or disagree, makes no matter! Just never doubt my honesty or my dedication to my beliefs/morals!

Last edited by grizman; 08-03-2010 at 17:52..
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Old 08-15-2010, 13:59   #17
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Originally Posted by Mrs.Cicero View Post
Hey griz,

I can't tell you how much I wish my father had seen fit to prepare me for the real world the way you are preparing your daughter. (Let's just say that my brother was pushed to take martial arts and I was forbidden to do so, on the specific grounds that I was a girl... and therefore should have no legitimate use for fighting skills, then extrapolate to the likely result of this).

PM sent.

Mrs.Cicero
When my kids were little all three were in Karate. Although it was their choice, I was actually glad they made it. I received a lot of comments at the time about putting my daughter in Karate and how she should have stayed in ballet. She was the oldest of the three; the ballet part had been my idea just so she would be involved in some afterschool activity that kept her physically active. Once I found out she really didn’t like it I pulled her out.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Much to my surprise she was actually the best out of the three in Karate and she absolutely loved it. Her brothers had a new found respect for her the day she kicked another kid so hard in sparring that he landed several feet away from where he stood. That was a normal thing to happen during sparring, they just never thought she would get to be so good at it. <o:p></o:p>

.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:44   #18
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When my kids were little all three were in Karate. Although it was their choice, I was actually glad they made it. I received a lot of comments at the time about putting my daughter in Karate and how she should have stayed in ballet. She was the oldest of the three; the ballet part had been my idea just so she would be involved in some afterschool activity that kept her physically active. Once I found out she really didn’t like it I pulled her out.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Much to my surprise she was actually the best out of the three in Karate and she absolutely loved it. Her brothers had a new found respect for her the day she kicked another kid so hard in sparring that he landed several feet away from where he stood. That was a normal thing to happen during sparring, they just never thought she would get to be so good at it. <o:p></o:p>

.
I took the girls to watch a couple of matches and to the Dojo to observe classes a few times and let them decide if they wanted to join. That was the extent of my involvement in the decision process.
At 13 my oldest had two "boy" friends gang up on her and toss her into the swimming pool. Did they have funny looks on their faces as they were put down quickly! Can still see it now! LOL
My youngest took ballet lessons for a couple of years before also I think it helps with their balance and that makes them more confident in the martial arts moves.

Last edited by grizman; 08-22-2010 at 14:33..
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Old 08-21-2010, 01:20   #19
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Nobody else thinks a G19 might be a bit on the big side for a purse gun?

I think it's pretty big for something you'll carry *every day*, and I'm a guy. I'd think a G26/27 would be at the top of the list, and even then it's a decent sized hunk of metal to swing around all the time.

There's a big difference between something you can put up with once or twice, and something you can comfortably take everywhere, in all weather, all outfits, to all activities, etc.
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Old 08-22-2010, 14:32   #20
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Nobody else thinks a G19 might be a bit on the big side for a purse gun?

I think it's pretty big for something you'll carry *every day*, and I'm a guy. I'd think a G26/27 would be at the top of the list, and even then it's a decent sized hunk of metal to swing around all the time.

There's a big difference between something you can put up with once or twice, and something you can comfortably take everywhere, in all weather, all outfits, to all activities, etc.
Sis tried the baby glocks and didn't care for the way they felt in her hand the recoil and sight recovery time was a factor at the rental range as well.
It was her choice for the 19, the 26 would be just like a 38 snub, not much to hold on to, very short sight radius and harder to control. Besides you haven't seen the purse this kid carries! I could put a 20 and a 21 with 6 spare mags and loose them!
We live in a state that allows both open and concealed carry. The majority of the time it will reside on her right hip in the serpa holster. The main purpose is for protection and requires proficiency and confidence as the primary concern for this type of weapon. Conceal ability is of secondary concern.
My daughter may be petite but she is comfortable and doing very well with the 19. I have her hitting CM shots at 25 yards on moving turning and pop up targets now. When she feels bored at 25 we move out to 50 and start over. When she gets bored there we move back to 7 and start over with her and the targets moving! ETC ETC.
I was trained to and got the trigger time in actual close combat to engage multiply tango's and survive. I will teach my daughter the skills I have beyond just shooting fast and accurately. She will learn situational awareness, proper target acquisition, proper target engagement, cover and concealment, fighting to cover. The list goes on. No I can not teach her what it is like to put a human being in her sights and squeeze the trigger, but I can tell her what it was like for me to do that. I can help her deal with it if it does happen to her. I am not new to the job of training people to carry weapons and use them in defense of themselves and others! Uncle Sam paid me to do it for the last 3 years of my service career.
My OQ was direct toward the ladies as to whether I was approaching the situation properly from the womans perspective. As women were not allowed to join the units I served in and latter helped train.
But all calm, polite questions or suggestions are always taken into advisement, all Intel must be weighed for merit and relevance to the operation at hand. And this one is a very important "mission" to me!
Thanks to all who suggested and supported me in this project.
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