9mm and WIN231 loads

tarheellefty · 07-26-2010, 20:24

I took the advice offered in earlier thread and ordered 2K bullets from Precision Delta ( 1K each of 115 gr and 124 FMJ) . I finally got the Dillon 550 switched over , and pulled out my 9mm load map from MidwayUSA . I wasn't sure which 115 gr bullet was closest to PD bullet , but all the 115 gr FMJ bullets were very close on charge weights . I have an 8#keg of Win 231 , so that's the powder I'm using .

I loaded 4.1 grns of Win 231 and a Wolf primer ( cannot recall the OAL ; whatever the book said for most the FMJ bullets ) . The book said this shold be about a 1000 ft/sec load ; it was near the top of the " green area" . I think max loads were generally 4.6 gr. I loaded up 100 rounds and headed to the range w/ 3 handguns - 2 glocks and a Springfield XDsc .

Long story short , my powder charge is a little weak . all rounds fed fine ( which was my major concern ) , but the XD esp had MANY failures to eject . The G19 had 1 out 20 , the G34 ( ? friends gun , I think thats the # ) had a couple . but the XD was 15-20% . I even lubed it up to see if that made a difference - nope . At the end , I loaded 10 factory rounds ( that I had to shuck from a magazine when I got there ) , the XD ate them right up , and threw the brass an easy 5' farther than my loads did.

So do I need .2-.3-.4 more grains ? I'm thinking .2 or .3 but I'd appreciate y'all speaking up if you use this combo . As stated in my prior posts , I've done lots of Rifle loads , but handguns limited to some 45 ACP . Please help me shorten the learning curve .....

TIA

Colorado4Wheel · 07-26-2010, 20:31

You need to not take shortcuts. You need to work it up .1gr at a time to be safe.

Jim Watson · 07-26-2010, 20:41

I never found the Midway LoadMap to be real close to my results.
I suggest a regular manual.

Nosler says 5.2 gr W231 with their 115 gr 9mm, Speer 5.0 gr MAXIMUM.
That would make 4.5-4.6 gr a reasonable STARTING load at the usual 90% rate.

PCJim · 07-26-2010, 20:52

Heed the above posts. Like C4W said, work your loads up in .1gr increments, and as Jim stated you are a bit weak on the rounds. I've loaded 115gr FMJ as high as 5.0gr W231 at 1.155 OAL/. That was before I owned a chrony. I cannot give you any feedback on the round except that it functioned.

If you are wanting a load that works in all three guns, load 15 rounds at each .1gr increment so that you can check a 5 round function in each gun. For the time being, stop at 4.5 or 4.6gr so that if you find the midrange load to be comfortable and functional, you don't go pushing the limits in your guns.

tarheellefty · 07-26-2010, 21:08

Thanks Jim - I compete in High power Rifle ; I've never found a manual much good for that - they never have the new bullets we're using . I flip through them at gun shows sometimes ; A lot of them don't even have loads for 80 grn sierra bullets for 223 yet . And I've used them since I started in 1998 !
Maybe I can ask this Question - What velocity would be a good goal w/ this bullet ?
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here , I'm going to get a load that cycles the gun reliably and load up the rest of the bullets . I'm not going to load up the whole 1k going up .1 grn at a time watching the FTE go down couple % for each tenth .
Bedtime -I'll check in tomorrow - goodnite !

PCJim · 07-26-2010, 21:23

I"m not going to try to estimate a good goal as concerns velocity, as I don't believe that velocity is the holy grail of reloading. You should be seeking a round that will function reliably in your gun(s), that feels comfortable to shoot, and that has accuracy that you can deal with. If you were loading at 4.1gr W231, you already know that won't work reliably. Start at either 4.2 or 4.3 (save a step) and start your 15rd increments. You should have worked out all the FTE problems by the time you reach the midrange load for that combination of bullet/powder.

I want to stress that while the 5.0 gr worked in my gun, it may be too much for yours. I don't have any notes associated with the results, so I can only say that it functioned (otherwise, there would have been problem notes with the log entry). Also, watch your OAL. 9mm is a relatively high pressure round and is sensitive to OAL variations. I'd stay with the longest OAL that will function in your magazines (1.155+). After you find a comfortable charge weight, you can then try reducing the OAL a bit if you feel it necessary.

fredj338 · 07-26-2010, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheellefty

Maybe I can ask this Question - What velocity would be a good goal w/ this bullet ?
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here , I'm going to get a load that cycles the gun reliably and load up the rest of the bullets . I'm not going to load up the whole 1k going up .1 grn at a time watching the FTE go down couple % for each tenth .
Bedtime -I'll check in tomorrow - goodnite !

Yeah, why I always suggest working loads up in small 10rd lots. IMO, you need at least 1000fps w/ a 115grFMJ to get reliable fuinctioning in most stock pistols. You are below Speer's starting charge of 4.4gr, FWIW. At 4.8gr under a 115grRNFMJ @ 1.125", I am running 1085fps in my G26. Hogdon says 4.7gr is starting for a 115grGDHP. SOme where between 4.4gr & 4.8gr should function. I would load 10 @ 4.5gr, 10 @ 4.6gr & 10 @ 4.7gr. Shoot them in order, note functioning, accuracy & any pressure signs or lack of.

TORCHRIDER · 07-27-2010, 14:28

Midway Load Maps are almost worthless IMO.
My G19/P239/PM9 load is 4.3 gr. of 231. Nice soft shooting load without any failures to cycle. I started at 4.1 and ended up at 4.3. By the way, this is Mike Venturino's pet load for his 9mm firearms.

Colorado4Wheel · 07-27-2010, 15:11

1000fps with a 115 is too weak for my guns.

fredj338 · 07-27-2010, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

1000fps with a 115 is too weak for my guns.

Several of mine too, it's a practicle min for most I think. Only way to know is load em up, shoot em, then verify vel over the old chronograph.

tarheellefty · 07-27-2010, 22:29

I didn't mean to abandon the post ; it was a LONG day at work .
I'm not too concerned about velocity , except I have a friend twisting my arm to go to an IDPA match . Then power factor may be a concern ... but if I get good functioning , I'm done . Any one that can shoot groups for comparison w/ the sight radius from a 3" barrel is a better shooter than me ( with a pistol that's not saying much ) .
I loaded up some ammo at 4.5 grns; if it cycles &ejects then I'm done for now. I have 3 shooters that have used that powder/bullet combo ; 2 used 4.6 and the other higher( I won't say what ! ) . fingers crossed I can get off before dark tomorrow ! Thanks for all the posts ...

Jim Watson · 07-28-2010, 08:54

9mms on hand that I have been shooting IDPA with are a 115 gr Remington JHP and 4.8 gr HP38. I don't have the velocity data here but they are close to factory, 1100+ fps.

GLShooter · 07-28-2010, 12:25

I've been loading 115's with 5.1 of 231/HP38 for the past 25 years in IPSC when I used that round. No problems so far and it served me well at several US Nationals.

Greg

Cobra64 · 07-28-2010, 14:30

FWIW, this load has been totally reliable in my four Sigs, my wife's HK P2000 V3, and our neightbor's G19.

.

orgnova · 07-28-2010, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra64

FWIW, this load has been totally reliable in my four Sigs, my wife's HK P2000 V3, and our neightbor's G19.

.

I really like your label. Did you download it or make it yourself?

Cobra64 · 07-28-2010, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgnova

I really like your label. Did you download it or make it yourself?

Thanks.

I designed it myself in Micrososft Publisher using a business card template for Avery 8869 business card stock.

The cards seem to work well for sticking into plastic 50 round MTM ammo boxes that I take to the range.

I'll email the Publisher file to you if you want it.

orgnova · 07-28-2010, 15:51

I'd appreciate it. I use zero bullets all the time.

Cobra64 · 07-28-2010, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgnova

I'd appreciate it. I use zero bullets all the time.

Send me a PM with your email address, and I'll send the file to you.

***MakeMineA10mm*** · 07-29-2010, 22:34

tarheel - my standard load for the 9mm is 135gr bullet with 4.4grs of W231. I've had certain lots of W231 that wouldn't cycle my pistols reliably until I got up to 4.7grs with 121-124gr bullets... Most lots of W231 aren't that slow-burning and work great around 4.4-4.5grs and a 124-135gr bullet.

I've never played much with 115s, as I'm not a light/fast guy. Not really a slow/big guy either, though I prefer that to light/fast. (What, I hear you ask, do you like? - I like medium and fast.) I think 135grs is the ideal weight for the 9mm, but they're rather hard to find. I have a custom mould for mine, or if I want jacketed, I generally order Zero's 135gr FMJ. The heavier bullet increases the recoil impulse (which increases reliable operation in a recoil-operated weapon) and also has higher inertia which helps ignition and consumption of the powder.

I'd have to look at a manual for a good 115gr load, but I'm guessing you'll have to go to around the middle of the load range (between start and max) to get 100% reliable cycling in multiple weapons.