[PhoenixCCW]

First off, I've been a loyal and raving fan of Kahr since I got my PM9 in 2005, so this isn't a flame thread or anything like that. I'm just expressing my frustration with the sudden demise of the formerly reliable gun after 5 years and several thousand rounds and, even more so, Kahr's seeming lack of care with fixing the problem (granted Ian is no longer there - he was the helpful one).

In any case it started recently when I suddenly couldn't lock the slide back. After trying a few of their suggestions, including clipping a turn or two off the recoil spring (which to me is totally unacceptable in a carry piece), they agreed to take the gun back for service. It came back with, you guessed it, the end of the recoil spring clipped! They also replaced the slide lock and magazine catch.

Tried to lock it back - VERY stiff - but I could do it so fine. Off to the range, 100 rounds with zero failures. Back again a week later and another 100 rounds with zero failures. Nice! I was ready to put it back into my carry rotation, until......

I broke the gun down for cleaning and lots of black plastic shavings fell out. Sure enough the right-side polymer frame rail, directly above the trigger, was chewed up and thinned out to half the original thickness. Not only unreliable for carry, but unsafe for shooting if you ask me.

I contacted Kahr again. Their reply? "This is normal!" WHAT??? Sorry guys but break-in happened many thousands of rounds ago!

At this point I'm very disappointed with Kahr and afraid that I have an expensive paperweight on my hands. In any case I rarely carry it anymore anyway because I can conceal my G27 almost as easily, but still, I want something to carry when I'm shooting the 27 at the range, or in very light summer clothing when pocket carry is in order. As much as I've loved the PM9 and as much as it's the perfect ultra-compact carry piece, I'm not about to go off and buy another of their overpriced guns after I feel like they screwed me on this one.

Anyone else have similar experiences or any suggestions?

[artificialgrey]

I've had a rather disappointing customer experience with Kahr regarding a PM9 that required shipping it to them. Long story short, they replaced my recoil assembly, but messed up my magazine catch in the process. When I received it back and seeing what they did to it, I called them back and this time I got Ian on the phone. After briefly explaining my reluctance to ship it to them once more, he sent me a replacement mag catch.

Is Ian really no longer working there? I think that dude was the last hope they had of retaining me as a customer.

[PhoenixCCW]

Originally Posted by artificialgrey

Is Ian really no longer working there? I think that dude was the last hope they had of retaining me as a customer.

Unfortunately he's gone. He was extremely helpful. Around the time I returned the gun is when he left and his replacement seems like he can't be bothered. I won't be buying any more Kahrs after this experience, especially considering the ridiculous prices on their guns.

Now my dilemma is finding a PM9 replacement. No other 9's come close in size. I won't buy a Kel-Tec due to quality issues. I won't trust my life with a .380.

[mrsurfboard]

Originally Posted by PhoenixCCW

Unfortunately he's gone. He was extremely helpful. Around the time I returned the gun is when he left and his replacement seems like he can't be bothered. I won't be buying any more Kahrs after this experience, especially considering the ridiculous prices on their guns.

Now my dilemma is finding a PM9 replacement. No other 9's come close in size. I won't buy a Kel-Tec due to quality issues. I won't trust my life with a .380.

But yet you did with a Kahr.

[PhoenixCCW]

Originally Posted by mrsurfboard

But yet you did with a Kahr.

Yeah because in 5 years and thousands of rounds I never had a failure except for two during break-in (first 50 rounds for me). It was 100% until they went off and changed the recoil spring design, and they no longer manufacture the old one because they presumably want to screw everyone into buying a new gun.

No thanks, Kahr.

[itstime]

I have three of their pistols and honestly for what they go for I wish I never purchased them. I've never used their CS mostly because I don't want to therefore never shoot the Kahrs. I know, what a waste. But for what they go for, they should stand behind their stuff 200% and don't. Geeze, Hipoint and Keltec do at a small percentage of the cost of a Kahr.

[briang2ad]

Sounds like poor CS on this one.

I would start taking it up the chain as FAR as I could go. Sometimes that is what it takes. And if the boss doesn't know this stuff is going on, he won't fix it.

[PhoenixCCW]

Originally Posted by briang2ad

Sounds like poor CS on this one.

I would start taking it up the chain as FAR as I could go. Sometimes that is what it takes. And if the boss doesn't know this stuff is going on, he won't fix it.

That is absolutely my plan. I'm not going to get stuck with a paperweight.

[Cowart]

Originally Posted by PhoenixCCW

Now my dilemma is finding a PM9 replacement. No other 9's come close in size.

Thats incorrect. The Rohrbaugh is fractionally smaller and lighter than the PM9 and has a good quality reputation - see http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/node/9

[PhoenixCCW]

Originally Posted by Cowart

Thats incorrect. The Rohrbaugh is fractionally smaller and lighter than the PM9 and has a good quality reputation - see http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/node/9

Yes I've come across that one in doing my research, sounds awesome! The price is VERY steep but we're already halfway through summer and I've dressed around the Glock 27 ... I suppose I have between now and next summer to save up my pennies for that one

[at_liberty]

I have been trying to work through similar issues with an older PM40. Kahr seems to have a batch of springs that aren't right. They handle them like a part number on a computer screen but the actual springs don't fit. Somebody there needs to stop making assumptions and check their stock.

They also do not supply the right parts, when you have the older recoil spring assembly with the smaller sized button end. I have a $100 worth of stuff I can't use and would only be told I waited too long to return it. I will just include it all when the gun goes back. The gun is currently working okay with the right ammo, but I cannot replace recoil springs. They don't have any that will work.

BTW, in spite of the problems with the PM40, I like my P40 and T40 a lot and shoot very well with them. The PM40 is just a fanny pack gun for driving. I bought it used and obviously paid too much for it. The P40 was a steal by a couple hundred dollars, so the average isn't too bad.

[PhoenixCCW]

Originally Posted by at_liberty

They also do not supply the right parts, when you have the older recoil spring assembly with the smaller sized button end. I have a $100 worth of stuff I can't use and would only be told I waited too long to return it. I will just include it all when the gun goes back. The gun is currently working okay with the right ammo, but I cannot replace recoil springs. They don't have any that will work.

What they're doing now is offering a $175 "retrofit" to allow the new recoil springs to be used in the older guns we own. Ridiculous if you ask me. They're acting like Microsoft now - forcing you to buy an upgrade or what you have won't work anymore.

As for me, I did an experiment: I tried on lots of different light summer clothes with my Glock 27 and found that it disappears just as readily as the PM9 did. So I'm abandoning my search for another micro gun and sticking with the G27.

[MinervaDoe]

It's a shame that the polymer Kahrs seem to have problems. My MK9 has been a flawless tackdriver. That said, I prefer my G26.

[b1012sharp]

Originally Posted by PhoenixCCW

Unfortunately he's gone. He was extremely helpful. Around the time I returned the gun is when he left and his replacement seems like he can't be bothered. I won't be buying any more Kahrs after this experience, especially considering the ridiculous prices on their guns.

Now my dilemma is finding a PM9 replacement. No other 9's come close in size. I won't buy a Kel-Tec due to quality issues. I won't trust my life with a .380.

A G26 is very concealable and reliable...I'm just sayin'

[JackC53]

If the Glock 26 is "too big" for you, have you considered revolvers? When it's really hot out or when I just need to grab something quick to run to the store, my S&W 340PD is ultra light, very concealable and .357 magnum rounds WORK. With a CT laser it's great. If the price bothers you, their 442 is just a little heavier, .38 +P is fine, and it's half the price. Just an idea...

[briang2ad]

Originally Posted by PhoenixCCW

What they're doing now is offering a $175 "retrofit" to allow the new recoil springs to be used in the older guns we own. Ridiculous if you ask me. They're acting like Microsoft now - forcing you to buy an upgrade or what you have won't work anymore.

This sounds VERY disappointing. I would still try going up the chain, plaguing them with calls, very respectfully, but getting to a VP and getting a NEW gun. It does NOT need a retrofit, if its falling apart - it needs to be replaced.

[revel8]

agh :/

[alank2]

Hi,

I recently picked up a PM9 and it did great on the first range session, but the second range session resulted in the slide locking back before the mag was empty. I fiddled around with the slide lock spring a bit, but in the end the issue was that a cartridge in the magazine was getting pushed forward and pushed forward it would contact the slide lock lever. I filed down a bit of the lever and it is working great now.

What explanation did they give for the plastic rails getting eaten up? Is it out of warranty or still in warranty? You would think they would have to fix it if it is still in warranty...

I love Glock because they take care of customers, but a G26 is considerably bigger than the PM9. I pocket carried my PM9 today for the first time and it was great.

Good luck,

Alan

[RVER]

My PM9 sold for $650.00 new. I've had (2) malfunctions during the first 10 or so rounds and has functioned perfectly since. Accuracy is great.

Would I do it again? Not sure. Stories such as this one make me really happy that I kept my Glock 23. I amy have purchased a Kel-Tec P11 instead and saved a bunch of money. I've had a P32 for years without any problems.

[the perfesser]

Originally Posted by RVER

My PM9 sold for $650.00 new. I've had (2) malfunctions during the first 10 or so rounds and has functioned perfectly since. Accuracy is great.

Would I do it again? Not sure. Stories such as this one make me really happy that I kept my Glock 23.......

I am with RVER on this. My PM9 has been great since I bought it. No failures to fire or to feed since the first 100 rounds and a few failures of the slide going fully forward into battery. Very good accuracy too, and I like the trigger. I have reconciled myself to the necessity of loading always from slidelock.

From what I understand, I am one of the many lucky ones who are similarly quite satisfied with their PM9s. But what I read about too many folks' problems with the pistol and with CS has me wary. So while I will keep the PM9 as the alternative pocket-carry to my snubbie, I have no great desire at the moment to expand my Kahr holdings......

[alank2]

Hi,

I debated, for years, on getting a PM9 because of all the Internet reviews that I read. Finally, I decided to take a plunge because I found a great price at www.gtdist.com on a PM9. I figured if I get a bad one, I would send it to CS and demand a new one if they couldn't get it right. Like I said in my above post, I had to file down the inside of the slide stop lever, but since I did that it is running perfectly.

Now that I'm carrying it I have to say I love carrying it much more than the J-Frame I was carrying. It is flatter and fits int he pocket better. I think it might be a couple ounces heavier, but I haven't noticed at all. I carry a 7 round spare mag as well for a total of 14 rounds of 9mm. I love this carry setup, I've been using a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster.

For me, it was very worth the risk of hoping to get a good one.

Thanks,

Alan

[tpr7304]

Originally Posted by PhoenixCCW

Now my dilemma is finding a PM9 replacement. No other 9's come close in size. I won't buy a Kel-Tec due to quality issues. I won't trust my life with a .380.

I bought a PM9 about a year ago and really liked the size of the pistol. I could not get it to run properly and eventually sold it. I ended up with a G26 which has been 100% reliable. I know its not as thin as the PM9 but it works every time.

[ontarget406]

Originally Posted by PhoenixCCW

First off, I've been a loyal and raving fan of Kahr since I got my PM9 in 2005, so this isn't a flame thread or anything like that. I'm just expressing my frustration with the sudden demise of the formerly reliable gun after 5 years and several thousand rounds and, even more so, Kahr's seeming lack of care with fixing the problem (granted Ian is no longer there - he was the helpful one).

In any case it started recently when I suddenly couldn't lock the slide back. After trying a few of their suggestions, including clipping a turn or two off the recoil spring (which to me is totally unacceptable in a carry piece), they agreed to take the gun back for service. It came back with, you guessed it, the end of the recoil spring clipped! They also replaced the slide lock and magazine catch.

Tried to lock it back - VERY stiff - but I could do it so fine. Off to the range, 100 rounds with zero failures. Back again a week later and another 100 rounds with zero failures. Nice! I was ready to put it back into my carry rotation, until......

I broke the gun down for cleaning and lots of black plastic shavings fell out. Sure enough the right-side polymer frame rail, directly above the trigger, was chewed up and thinned out to half the original thickness. Not only unreliable for carry, but unsafe for shooting if you ask me.

I contacted Kahr again. Their reply? "This is normal!" WHAT??? Sorry guys but break-in happened many thousands of rounds ago!

At this point I'm very disappointed with Kahr and afraid that I have an expensive paperweight on my hands. In any case I rarely carry it anymore anyway because I can conceal my G27 almost as easily, but still, I want something to carry when I'm shooting the 27 at the range, or in very light summer clothing when pocket carry is in order. As much as I've loved the PM9 and as much as it's the perfect ultra-compact carry piece, I'm not about to go off and buy another of their overpriced guns after I feel like they screwed me on this one.

Anyone else have similar experiences or any suggestions?

Wow! I have been a member of GT for a while but do not post many threads. I saw this one and needed to say something. Let me see if I got this right.... You have had the gun for 5 years and it performed flawlessly. Now you are perceiving a problem and the gun is a paperweight? He who has little faith....! ;-)

Maybe I can help. I am no expert but have carried a PM9 for quite a while.

First, lets discuss the recoil spring. You said you could not lock the slide back. I am guessing this just didn't start happening on its own. That wouldn't make any sense at all. I bet you ordered, or were sent, a new recoil spring. You installed it and it didn't lock back.

Then the Kahr folks mentioned clipping the spring.

The reason you were told to try clipping a coil, is due to the spring you received being for the newer version PM9 which has a longer (more coils) spring. You mentioned your gun is 5 years old. You would need to clip a coil or so off the spring. to make it work. Nothing unusual so far, pretty standard practice.

You send the gun back in and they (Kahr) clipped the spring for you. Sounds like they also updated your slide lock and mag catch as well. Did they charge you for that? I am sure they didn't. Probably did it for free on your out of warranty gun.

Gun comes back and runs fine. No issues.....

You take it apart and find shavings from the right side guide and notice it is thinner. Let me try to explain this. I had the same concern a while back. Kahr set me straight. First, that portion of the frame is a guide. It is on the gun to assist the owner to "guide"" the slide back on the frame. The guide could be totally off the frame and the gun would still function fine. The slide is held on by metal "rails" molded into the lower portion of the frame

Back to the frame guides. The right hand forward portion of the guide is machined ( by Kahr) a bit thinner for ease of inserting the slide. You will also note that the there is an edge on the slide as you insert it on the frame, that will dig in to the guide leaving shavings. Unless that slide is put on exactly straqight, that sharp corner on the slide will dig it up a bit. Again, no big deal and it does not hurt the gun's functionality or reliability at all.

I got this info from dealing with Kahr CS over the years. They have been very helpful in educating me on their pistol.

Hopefully this helps restore your faith in what I believe to be, a pretty darned good gun for CCW.

Just my 2 cents!

[rjbFL]

Question if I may?

I have an old frame and have just installed a new style recoil-assembly.

It locks open - so spring compresses correctly – why cut off a link?

Thanks.

[ontarget406]

Originally Posted by rjbFL

Question if I may?

I have an old frame and have just installed a new style recoil-assembly.

It locks open - so spring compresses correctly – why cut off a link?

Thanks.

My understanding of the newer PM9 springs are they have a coil or two longer then the older style gun. It really depends on how old your gun is. Sounds like your gun, although older, may not be old enough to see the impact of the new spring.

Hope this helps!